2024 Lithuanian NT

[Straight forward2]

You don't get it. It doesn't matter WHEN player makes NT. You stuck with stupid idea that if player makes NT as 22yo or younger, he's a GOAT. No, that's not true. In other words, the level of Jasikevcius has not been defined by the reason on when he joined NT. He joined as 22yo, and if he would have joined as 23yo? That's it, he's worse talent? Or Macijauskas wasn't great because he joined NT only as 23yo? Or Sarunas Marciulionis was trash because he couldn't make Soviet Union for a long time?

If Tubelis will make NT this year as 22yo, it doesn't mean he's as good as Sabonis, do you understand that? And while Lekavicius made NT being 21yo doesn't mean that he is just as good as Jasikevicius or even Kalnietis, do you get that? You're passport nonsense is completely irrelevant. The most important thing is players upside and development. No-one cares when he first makes NT, being 20yo or 25yo.

F.e. we know now that both Sirvydis and Rubstavicius most likely will join NT being 23 (one already did). Does that mean that they are necessary having lower upside than Jokubaitis? No, absolutely not. Their upside are from the same tier. You're counting that date of joining NT like a little kid candies It's doesn't matter that much. Butkevicius joined NT being what? 27yo? And he became super important and the key defensive player, even if he was scoring only 4ppg and collecting 5.3eff as a 28yo. But you watch and see his impact. His +/- was one of the best in the team. You don't need numbers to see the impact. The same with Marciulionis (even though his numbers will be filled too with time).

Tubelis isn't even as good JV, D-Mo, Sabonis, Jokubaitis as a young player. He may even be a little worse than young Jankunas. There's no need to overrate him just because he would make NT now (which is far from fact yet). The point is that he is just another nice addition, but nothing more. As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure Tubelis will have Sedekerskis kind of career, because Sedekerskis basically was able to sneak in among top 10 most efficient players of EL this season and that's not easy to do. And we know that Sedekerskis made NT only being 25yo.

All these numbers don't mean anything Songaila made NT being 22yo, but that doesn't mean that Sedekerskis won't have more impactful career in the NT than Songaila necessary. There's tons of examples.

Marciulionis is not a worse player than Sargiunas. Sargiunas doesn't have Marciulionis physicality, defence, passing, IQ. Sargiunas is about open basketball, scoring, but overall he's not a better basketball player. And there's no need to compare those 2 cause Sargiunas is not a candidate for position 1.

Kariniauskas making NT 22yo had little to do guaranteeing great career overall as we see now.

 

[Shawshank2]

So please ncaa student show that you are not worse player than Neptunas guard before having ideas of taking place of our euroleague players. Its called competion on the floor


That neptunas guard was kinda good in lkl this season, in some games even Neptunas leader and Sargiunas clearly played better in game 1 vs joke Liban defence that was giving wide open jumpers all game

We will see who will be better in other games.


We are talking about 10min backup role here,we dont ask some special playmaking, all coaches will want from our 10min backup be solid,make like wide 2 of 3 jumpers NT leaders will create.


So when i see 4 made 3pointers for 1 guard and see 0/3 and i know we have Sabonis as your best player and he will get double team alot.I dont even consider guard thats shoots 0/3 for 10min backup role


Seeing how Lekavicius shoots in lkl finals,Lukas is lock

 

[Straight forward2]

So please ncaa student show that you are not worse player than Neptunas guard before having ideas of taking place of our euroleague players. Its called competion on the floor


That neptunas guard was kinda good in lkl this season, in some games even Neptunas leader and Sargiunas clearly played better in game 1 vs joke Liban defence that was giving wide open jumpers all game

We will see who will be better in other games.


We are talking about 10min backup role here,we dont ask some special playmaking, all coaches will want from our 10min backup be solid,make like wide 2 of 3 jumpers NT leaders will create.


So when i see 4 made 3pointers for 1 guard and see 0/3 and i know we have Sabonis as your best player and he will get double team alot.I dont even consider guard thats shoots 0/3 to 10min backup


Seeing how Lekavicius shoots in lkl finals,Lukas is lock

NT leaders will create I mean, OK, Sabonis can pass it, but I think you don't get it that Marciulionis is the only one pure pass first PG in the country. He would be taken for facilitation and defence. Dominant ball handling, and not standing into a corner.

Again, watch him play, not statistics.

Whenever Lukas is a lock or not, it's not the point, the point is that you are missing the point about Marciulionis for 6 years now

 

[Hepcat2]

yesterday game versus joke Liban NT:


Marciulionis 20min 1pts and 6 asists 0/4 brick shooting

Sargiunas 23min 15pts+9asist and 4 made 3pointers


can ncaa student firstly outperform Neptunas guard before becoming candidate vs our euroleague players ?

I really didn't want to say anything after just one game but since a full blown discussion has already started I'll comment. Augustas Marčiulionis wasn't at all impressive during yesterday's game. The only players who delivered less per minute of playing time were Lukas Kreišmontas​, Paulius Danusevičius and perhaps Marius Valinskas.

But the unheralded Rytis Petraitis really delivered! He's certainly one to watch.



​​

 

[Hepcat2]

Again, watch him play, not statistics.

Basketball though isn't figure skating. Style points aren't awarded. Games are decided on the basis of the scoreboard, i.e. a stat.

You unfortunately see only what you want to see, i.e. whatever conforms to your preconceived notions. Augustas Marčiulionis would have to fail to arrive for a game before you'd concede that his play was inadequate.

Now I'd like to see Marčiulionis (or any young Lithuanian player) blossom into a star. But he wasn't among the very best guards on the reserve team last year and he has to play far better than he did against Lebanon yesterday to impress any objective observer.

 

[Straight forward2]

So no Howard, but Alvarado and Waters in for PR. Imagine Maksvytis had D. Giedraitis. You put him on Alvarado and you have 40-50% easier game. Nah, not needed. And now Marciulionis also out, so NT loses 2 best perimeter guard defenders in the country. That's not good, but now LTU just has to take PR down. We are 2-4 times more talented. Italy, IMO, still the best team to beat. If Maksvytis will screw this, it will be devastating cause we basically have green light to the Olympics. Italy will be highly depleted too.

 

[Shawshank2]

Jokubaitis+Grigonis is our 2 key perimeter players their job is take down puerturico not 10min possible role players job.


But either way no leading euroleague scorer is big plus for our NT no doubt.He was more dangerous offensive player than Alvarado no doubt.. Alvarado is consider more very irritating defender not elite scorer

Alvarado will try to steal balls in midd court ,penetrating inside will do such things to get crowd going.But he can be defended like 2010s Schroder let him shoot 3pointer hold distance and do not let penetrate inside.


Our NT got not just got good draw but also opponnets will miss key players.The only minuse that NT will have to play in South America and thats specific place to play

Im not affraid of neither Italy or Puerturico roster players they provided. Fontecchio and Howard i worried the most after draw.


Now I have more fear is that wild south american atmosphere and our players loosing their heads of pressure qualifying for olympics taking over.


Thats why i want coach taking most battle tested dudes that have been in past in similiar situations.

 

[Svajunas2]

NT is lacking PG, not a SG. Why are you comparing them.

Another typical thing for JV fans is to ignore everything player does on defense, because only offence matters.

 

[Hepcat2]

Another typical thing for JV fans is to ignore everything player does on defense, because only offence matters.

I take it then that you don't classify yourself as a Jonas Valančiūnas fan. Since Valančiūnas is a Lithuanian who's suited up for Team Lietuva whenever he's been given the call, why then would you not be a fan? I suspect this might be some Kaunas versus Vilnius thing with you. If so that's reprehensible.

Or are you simply implying that you're not a single minded Valančiūnas above all else fan? But then who here is? Madmax? He's not posted in nearly a year. So why then did you take a random shot at Valančiūnas? What was the point?

 

[Svajunas2]

I am big JV fan. At the same time I acknowledge his weaknesses, weaknesses which are not usually visible in stat sheets.

Im pointing towards fans who look at stat sheets above else. In this forum there are people who blindly defend JV, the same people are not acknowledging Marciulionis because he missed 3 shots.

 

[Straight forward2]

I will put it this way - is this line-up the most offensively talented since 2008 (Jasikevicius, Kaukenas, Siskauskas, Kleiza, K. Lavrinovic - 85ppg) or not?

Jokubaitis, Grigonis, Sirvydis, Sedekerskis, Sabonis 2024

vs

Kalnietis, Pocius, Maciulis, Kleiza, Javtokas 2010 (82ppg)

Jokubaitis, Grigonis, Brazdeikis, Kuzminskas, Sabonis 2022 (88,8ppg)

Jokubaitis, Brazdeikis, Kuzmisnkas, Sedekerskis, Valanciunas 2023 (89,1ppg)

I believe that 2022 team was extremely talented offensively cause we were putting 89ppg vs elite teams every night. 2023 team shot the ball very well, but tons of games were against second rate teams, so that's not the same. Even though we had a great offensive flow in most games, that has to be said.

I believe 2024 team might be the best offensive team we had in 10 and more years. FOA, Jokubaitis is way better now that 2022. Grigonis still the same hopefully. Sirvydis is heading towards becoming superior player than Grigonis/Brazdeikis. Probably not in this tournament yet, but I secretly expect a brake out tournament (if not Kuzminskas can take his minutes and score which he still can), Sedekerskis coming from his best season in career and he's really good, and off course prime Sabonis.

Funny thing is, that those medaling teams of 2010, 2013 and 2015 were much lower scoring teams. Specially last 2. Around 75ppg. I doubt today this would work. Those EB teams didn't have such crazy talented oppositions which we have today with Doncic, SGA, Jokic, Giannis talents and so on. NBA MVP level players.

It's funny how basketball changed. We are scoring more points than 2008 stacked team was capable, but we are still losing cause around there's even crazier offenses.

2004 tournament will remain the most painful. Lithuania was scoring 93,4ppg game, way above any team in Olympics. Second was USA with 88.1ppg. And Italy only with 77,9ppg, but they had to unleash their shit against us exactly.

Also 1999 loss was very painful. We were leading the tournament in all statistics and winning everything, but then slipped against Spain. But that was different times. The team was stacked, but scored only 80ppg. By far the best in the tournament.

Lithuania traditionally has been offensive powerhouse. Only 2013-2015 stretch is exception, but I think this stretch has a lot to do with luck and great draw. That's why it will be interesting to see how such lineup as say Jakucionis, Indrusaitis, Buzelis, Sedekerskis, Krivas will look at the end of 20s. This would be the first true 2 way line-up in our history. It will probably still be offensive line-up primarily, but there's tons of defensive upside as well.

 

[Shawshank2]

2020s fiba basketball competion level is highest it ever was easily.

Before 2015 2 bigs was in the floor most of the game and since 2015 playing style and shooting abiltiies of small balls is alot diffrent


Main diffrence between other ltu elite scoring teams that was winning medals was they had perimeter star and Lithuania didnt have perimeter star since Kleiza

Kleiza not perimeter player but he was scoring like one, both in averages and stylistically.

Its not about just averages of points its more to do can team outscore opponnets in endings ? For that teams need perimeter star


2022 Valanciunas was leading scorer with 16,2pts and he is not top 5 players list from 2022 ? So leading scorer didnt play no part in team averaging 88pts?

 

[Straight forward2]

Yeah, well, it doest really matter. I mention him in 2023, you should be happy enough

The point is, if my calculation is correct, and we would play superior offense than in 2022, scoring plus 90 points is a serious shit. Maybe we could move some teams while not even having true game closers.

 

[Straight forward2]

2004 NT was visionary. We were playing the type of ball that now top 3-4 teams are playing, scoring 94+ points per game

 

[Shawshank2]

Very nice and objective analyses like always talking about lithuanians rebounders and dont mentione best NT rebounder of last 8 fiba tournaments.

Talking about 2022 offence and dont mentioning leading scorer of 2022 team


yes 2003 and 2004 we played Don Nelson Run TMC warriors style and that was ahead of time in fiba. But for that to happen Sireika was lucky to get elite multiple perimeter scorers at that moment in time.

Now it 2024 most elite teams does similiar things only improved version ,especially in defence than our NT 2003-2004 did.


So all this analyses is very mediocre and looking only from lithuanian perspective and dont even trying to look what works for recent medals winners and why they are winning in 2020s

 

[Straight forward2]

I knew some nitpicking from homer fans would accure. How's that matter? JV was way better than Sabonis in 2022? At the end of the tournament Sabonis looked better. You can put any of them at this point. But off course, you feel like a butthurt cause JV is your darling.

The last line shows how funny you are If there's nothing to discuss you put some pseudo claims that I never pointed and make a contra-argument against it It's bit schizophrenic TBH.

 

[Hepcat2]

I am big JV fan.

Oh?! So explain why you slammed Jonas Valančiūnas with these words when he's very clearly one of Team Lietuva's two best centers? ​

I hope not.

Who's your alternative?

At the same time I acknowledge his weaknesses, weaknesses which are not usually visible in stat sheets.

​Im pointing towards fans who look at stat sheets above else. In this forum there are people who blindly defend JV....

1. Valančiūnas' weaknesses are actually very evident in even semi-detailed stats sheets. The Raptors turned a player who ran like a gazelle into a lumbering post player. He's a defensive presence only under the glass but can't (and should not be asked to) chase fleet footed guards around the perimeter.

2. Once again, who here blindly defends Valančiūnas? Madmax isn't around.​

...the same people are not acknowledging Marciulionis because he missed 3 shots.

Since nobody here is blindly defending Valančiūnas, then logically "they" can't be the same people "not acknowledging Marčiulionis". Do you ever think through your words before you post?

And speaking of Augustas Marčiulionis, it was obvious to any objective observer that he wasn't playing well against Lebanon. Eight other players on Team Lietuva were beasting while Marčiulionis was ho-hum. So it turned out that he had a broken rib meaning there was a good reason for his poor play. But that doesn't mean that he didn't play poorly which some less than objective observers on this board still tried desperately to deny. Talk about "blindly defending" a player!

But blind defence of Marčiulionis doesn't seem to bother you. Why not? Consistency is a virtue you know.

Why do you invariably agree with Straight forward's every word? Do you work for him or something?

 

[Straight forward2]

Holly shit! Grab your seats folks. "We were more looking to replace the same position player. We planned Augustas, who is PG, so we were looking for PG".

Oh my fucking god...He's going to invite Kariniauskas! He just had to.

https://www.krepsinis.net/naujiena/...eis-a-marciulioni-pranesime-sekmadieni/335883

 

[Shawshank2]

Jonas Valanciunas said himself that he will be in camp that start tommorow. But will he play unclear.

He added : „Nėra tokio dalyko, kaip draudimas, ir nebus jo .Nes negali apdrausti oro. Dabar reikia žiūrėti, kokie yra scenarijai ir nedaryti iš to didelės problemos. Viskas įmanoma, žiūrėsime, kaip susiklostys scenarijai.“

So my guess JV will do all physical preparation things with team in first week to prepare body for tournament,but wont have no contact training


But i still dont get what kinda scenerios must happen for Valanciunas to be able to play with insurance done that would protect his new nba contract.

Free agency open July 1st,Olympic qualification tournaments starts July 2nd.

 

[Straight forward2]

I'm not concerned about this at all. The only legitimate chance to win is with Sabonis playing well. JV version of 2023 gives us nothing to our chances to win something more serious. Outplayed by Milutinov and almost zero defense. To me it's completely meh whenever he's in or out. Actually I have intuition that NT would do better without him.

I only respect his attitude towards NT and great example. But when it comes to winning...In 2022 last hope died that JV can give us medals.