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2024 Lithuanian NT

  • Thread starter Thread starter Straight forward2
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Straight forward2

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Maksvytis should stay. Controversially, but he deserves that third chance, hopefully with A team.

Aside Jokubaitis, we lack creation at the highest level. So I preach and pray for strong back up PG. All eyes should be on Marciulionis and Velicka. I don't want to hear about one single mediocre scrub. Dead end. Either you have a legitimate piece or you just make fun of your self (all these attempts with Markevicius, K. Marciulionis, Gustas, Mazutis, Prekevicius, Vasiliauskas, Kariniauskas and so on was a failure and never worked. We desperately have to get something real here, and unfortunately Maksvytis didn't understand that and he will pay the price most likely for that in 2024 (his project with Kariniauskas failed, he was irrelevant in key games and NT left flat again). The addition of athleticism is another big reason why we should be looking at Marciulionis, Velicka. Big, beefy, athletic PGs. It was just silly to see how easily Serbians locking our guards (OK, NT wasn't 100% ready physically, but still).

SG position is in good hands with Grigonis and Brazdeikis, but both are primarily scorers. So is Lekavicius BTW. Grigonis will add certain dimension of creativity, but against top teams he usually lack athleticism (Spain locked him). We have some decent secondary options in Dimsa, Normantas, Sirvydis, D. Giedraitis, but I preach for upcoming staring level piece at 2 - Rubstavicius. If he will have a strong season in Australia, I think he would shut down all these three guys as superior flat out. It shouldn't necessary happen for 2024, but sooner the better. We need his relentless aggression, athleticism, three level scoring, solid passing and grinding at D. Potentially first complete SG since Siskauskas. His presence won't be easily contained cause he has elite first step and explosiveness for the position. Grigonis is perfectly creative for 2, but he is limited and contained because of lack athleticism and explosiveness. Rubstavicius is big next step at this position. If we will lack legitimate second PG, then position 2 is still a bit lacking a degree of creativity.

Probably the deepest position if Butkevicius, Ulanovas, Kuzminskas show up. Guys as Sedekerskis, Brazdeikis, Sirvydis can play there too. Obviously there's almost zero chance to see Buzelis cause he will be drafted high and will work individually, but even without him we have enough option.

Sedekerskis established himself as reliable and solid options. I hope that Tubelis can play there some too, but not too much. We need that addition of Azuolas. We seen that we lack a bit of athleticism with such guys as Bendzius, Kuzminskas. Sedekerskis provided against USA, Serbia. Tubelis is another athletic guy (for Euro standards). I would love to see Murauskas after a strong NCAA season in Wildcats, but we know that Maksvytis won't go with it. Bendzius, again, is pretty possible since he sort of provided as stretch 4, just got injured.

I would love to see Sabonis playing 26-28mpg. He's ALL NBA guy in his prime and makes other better. He will be 28. Just optimal age for big performance. I would preach for anyone agile and defensively relevant (OK, not a nightmare would be a start...) and obviously I have Tubelis, Sedekerskis names here as main candidates. Unfortunately we will see again JV dragging NT down with zero defense once he's on the court. Hopefully for the last time.

To some up - I doubt the addition of Grigonis and Lekavicius is enough for having a good backcourt. We need to add athletic creative guys as soon as possible. And we desperately need to end the defensive nightmare and collapse with full of holes JV/D-Mo. We stand no chance with them, this should be said.
 
I'm pissed with the mess regarding LTU NT coaches...I hear now that Seskus is offered to coach NT in next FIBA window since Kemzura is busy...This is amazing. This has to be stopped. When the mess started with Maskoliunas it just continues. I'm starting to be sceptic of Balciunas. I didn't expect he would manage NT so messy...I mean, since when we can't have a one fucking normal head coach who would actually coach NT on a constant basis? This is ridiculous...

I think the obvious positive is that Jokubaitis was one of three best young PGs in the tournament along with Giddey and Zagars. Obviously strong PGs is deficit. When you look closer Schroder is 30yo (and Germany has no substitution), Micic is 29 (Topic as potential substitution, but that's long shot). France seems to be stuck at PG position even though they have many high level prospects, but no definite answers so far. Greece has no answers after Calathes, Sloukas. Italy doesn't have facilitating PG. Many NTs don't have PGs so having elite PG emerging is the most important piece.

Jokubaitis was 15,1eff kinda guy in this tournament. That exceeds exceeds Jasikevicius' and Kalnietis' second best performances in the NT. Probably assists numbers could have been counted differently and more conservatively in Saras era, but Jokubaitis 55% from three is nothing but impressive even if he wasn't taking all that much of those.
 
Aside Jokubaitis, we lack creation at the highest level. So I preach and pray for strong back up PG. All eyes should be on Marciulionis and Velicka. I don't want to hear about one single mediocre scrub.

Unfortunately neither Augustas Marčiulionis nor Arnas Velička​ have shown a level of play beyond mediocre scrub yet. "Blind Faith" is the name of a band that never fulfilled its potential. It's not a viable strategy for building a basketball team.

Either you have a legitimate piece or you just make fun of your self (all these attempts with Markevicius, K. Marciulionis, Gustas, Mazutis, Prekevicius, Vasiliauskas,

Don't forget Lukas Lekavičius. Team Lietuva just has not been very good with Lukas Lekavičius on the floor due to his very real defensive shortcomings. Strange that you focus on the defensive shortcomings of Lithuania's single most unstoppable offensive player (Jonas Valančiūnas), but when it comes to Lekavičius you ignore them. Logical consistency I take it is not your strong point.

But how would you decide which players are good anyway without trying them out? Your decision making on the basis of some sort of first principles is not something any prudent coach would consider.

Kariniauskas and so on was a failure and never worked. We desperately have to get something real here, and unfortunately Maksvytis didn't understand that and he will pay the price most likely for that in 2024 (his project with Kariniauskas failed, he was irrelevant in key games and NT left flat again).

I see you're back to cherry picking or even completely ignoring game production to support your preconceived narrative.

To some up - I doubt the addition of Grigonis and Lekavicius is enough for having a good backcourt.... We have some decent secondary options in Dimsa, Normantas, Sirvydis, D. Giedraitis.

Well Lekavičius would be a net negative. And it's Rokas Giedraitis and not Dovydas Giedraitis who's a viable addition to the back court next summer.

:rolleyes:
 
worst 3 players according to +- in NT 2023 was

1.Sedekerskis -1,5
2.Dimsa 0.0
3.Sirvydis +1,5

Thats +- stats indicates

we should change that trio with Sabonis,Grigonis,Butkevicius and again try fighting in 2024 summer

Best -+ NT was with Bendzius shooting from PF position +12,6
 
LTU NT was nr 1 shooting team in 2023 --> 42,5%

1.Maldunas 0 from 0 0%
2.Normantas 7 from 22 31,8%
3.Sirvydis 8 from 25 32%

All other LTU players shooted atleast 37% or way higher
 
Hepcat, Bro, how many games did you actually watch and not just check stats of NT in this WC?

Unfortunately neither Augustas Marčiulionis nor Arnas Velička​ have shown a level of play beyond mediocre scrub yet. "Blind Faith" is the name of a band that never fulfilled its potential. It's not a viable strategy for building a basketball team.

From what I've seen there's no doubt to me Marciulionis is superior defensively than Kariniauskas and that's super important. I have Marciulionis and D. Giedraitis as the best perimeter defenders. They are the stickiest defenders guarding pure guards. Off course, we don't know how Marciulionis could have done in WC offensively, but he dished the ball impressively in reserve NT. As for Velicka, he still turns the ball over too much, not consistent decision maker enough and inconsistent defensively, but we will see more during the season as both Velicka and Kariniauskas will play in Lithuania most likely.




​Don't forget Lukas Lekavičius. Team Lietuva just has not been very good with Lukas Lekavičius on the floor due to his very real defensive shortcomings. Strange that you focus on the defensive shortcomings of Lithuania's single most unstoppable offensive player (Jonas Valančiūnas), but when it comes to Lekavičius you ignore them. Logical consistency I take it is not your strong point.

Yes, Lekavicius is problematic defensively. But Kariniauskas is trash defensively too. Specially in perimeter. Never have any other doubts, he can't stay with agile, explosive guards. Lekavicius however is legitimate EL scoring combo. Kariniauskas never even was close to that level for example. I hear your concerns perfectly and that's why I preach for backup PG with defensive and facilitating presence (Marciulionis seems perfect candidate to me, and Velicka to lesser extent). But the reality is that Lekavicius in 2024 might still be >>> than Kariniauskas, Marciulionis, Velicka or anyone else at 1 aside Jokubaitis. You know what you getting from him. Don't forget Lekavicius closed EL season with 20pts game securing Zalgiris PO spot and he dropped 15pts in the 8finals against Spain in 2022 EB. He can really give great boost offensively and he's EL player.


Well Lekavičius would be a net negative. And it's Rokas Giedraitis and not Dovydas Giedraitis who's a viable addition to the back court next summer.

R. Giedraitis is trash defensively and struggled offensively in all tournaments so far (19, 21, 22). Don't see much point to go with him. Sirvydis is gonna be better, IMO, soon.

worst 3 players according to +- in NT 2023 was

1.Sedekerskis -1,5
2.Dimsa 0.0
3.Sirvydis +1,5

Thats +- stats indicates

we should change that trio with Sabonis,Grigonis,Butkevicius and again try fighting in 2024 summer

Best -+ NT was with Bendzius shooting from PF position +12,6


Are you seriously suggesting to cut top 5 player of WC Sedekerskis? And one of rare solid options at 4 we have? He was the best defensive and hustle player in entire team. Who else can play D at 4 or even 5? He almost single handedly gave us comfortable win against Montenegro and he was big against USA, Serbia.

You guys are going crazy with that +/- stat, really. Specially when we had some blow out games, plenty of those. So Jokubaitis and JV are trash compared to Kariniauskas and Bendzius, right? Keep going with literal interpretations of this opportunistic stat.
 
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Assuming absolutely all pieces available - I have this 2024 roster today:

Jokubaitis, Lekavicius
Grigonis, Brazdeikis, Dimsa
Ulanovas, Butkevicius
Sedekerskis, Kuzminskas, Tubelis
Sabonis, Valanciunas

I doubt Ulanovas and Grigonis will join. Basically both trying to secure their fragile bodies + Ulanovas' mindfuck. Kuz will be 34.

Potential new-comers: Tubelis, Rubstavicius, Marciulionis, Velicka, D. Giedraitis
 
I personally thought Sedekerskis and Bendzius both were good in their own way from eye test in PF position.

But stats numbers says Sedekerskis wasnt that good and Sirvydis was simply bad from what team expected from him.


Stats says NT as team played better with shooting Pf Bendzius instead of defensive type Sedekerskis.


Somebody was telling me +- of Valanciunas stats of first 3 blowout games was big deal and u dinosour expert called him as harmful player,but when his beloved Sedekerskis ended up with minus score that player isnt harmful anymore? :)

If u judge fiba 2023 2nd all tournament team player Valanciunas by +-,please judge your beloved players too by same criterias
 
Sedekerskis went -29 against Latvia, in the game which he played 30 minutes. Bendzius and Kariniauskas didn't even play in that game. Sedekerskis actually grabbed 10 boards and had 9eff in that game. He was second best rebounder in the team in entire tournament. Was he perfect? No, he was a bit inconsistent. But it's surprising to me how experienced posters like you can go so infantile suddenly just looking at averages of +/- :) Something. Looking deeper Sedekerskis delivered against Montenegro, USA, Serbia, but struggled against Greeks. Bendzius struggled in the first group, but delivered against Greeks and then got injured. To me there's no doubt Sedekerskis had better tournament. Rokas Jokubaitis BTW played 30min. against Latvia, dropped 16pts, but had -34 in the game which off course hit his tournament +/- heavily. So he's trash too cause "numbers says" that? Kariniauskas better? It would funny, but it's pretty sad to read that shit from old dudes here...

Why I mentioned JV's +/-? Easy. FOA, he irritates me with zero defense. SOA, LTU was winning everything and he was the only one with - on the team. That was really interesting. Not that I made some radical conclusions from that. I always say that you have to study +/- carefully and not to emphasize it too much, specially when you have some blow out wins and losses.

I never thought that this forum will ever turn into a place where you have to school two literally old men not to follow +/- stat blindly and directly. But here we go...This used to be a place where you can hide from idiots and kids of LTU forums once...
 
Best -+ NT was with Bendzius shooting from PF position +12,6

I know Eimantas Bendžius doesn't have very many ardent fans on this board but in only sixteen minutes of playing time per game as part of the second unit he took more three point shots per game (4.6) and made more (1.8) than any other player on the team! He spread the floor better than any other Lithuanian player in this tournament thus making the other players around him more effective. His absence in the Serbia game was very evident. and resulted in the second unit not performing nearly as well

:(
 
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Hepcat, Bro, how many games did you actually watch and not just check stats of NT in this WC?

Lithuania's games (with the exception of that against Serbia) were typically played at 8:40 in the morning Toronto time. They weren't televised live here. I therefore followed the live FIBA feed on the computer and watched the games on Youtube as soon as they became available (except for the Latvia one which was too painful).

But!!! I always check any subjective impressions I get from game play against the stat sheet and I always allow the stat sheet to be the ultimate arbitrar of my impressions. I mean I'm jumping up and down cheering and swearing while I'm watching a bunch of superb athletes running around willy nilly during games. That's not exactly a recipe for analytical study. You'd need stop action and a basketball pro telling you what's happening (and should be happening) on the edges of the screen for serious study. That's why I always back up my comments with stats, and the more data points (games) I have the better.

I never thought that this forum will ever turn into a place where you have to school two literally old men not to follow +/- stat blindly and directly. But here we go...This used to be a place where you can hide from idiots and kids of LTU forums once...

Nobody here is following the +/- stat blindly! But it's another piece of data that should be considered and act as a check on any subjective observations.

:)
 
...but we will see more during the season as both Velicka and Kariniauskas will play in Lithuania most likely.

Okay! I'm really looking forward to seeing what they (and Deividas Sirvydis) do for their club teams and particularly for Team Lietuva in the qualifying windows in this coming 2023-24 season. I have an open mind, and I'd really like to see Arnas Velička​, Dovydas Giedraitis, Augustas Marčiulionis, etc. emerge as stars for the good of Lithuanian basketball. But I'm not willing just to make a leap of faith and anoint them as the "future" until they start to produce (and not just once in a long while).

You seem to want to lay out the red carpet for players on the basis of some subjective observation of potential. I want to see them putting up the numbers first. So like I say, let's see which Lithuanian PGs put up the best numbers in the coming year and those are the three or four I'd like to see at camp competing for positions next summer. And if some previously unheralded 26 year old emerges from the pack with a really good season, you bet I'll want the coaching staff to invite him to camp and give him a hard look.

Either you have a legitimate piece or you just make fun of your self (all these attempts with Markevicius, K. Marciulionis, Gustas, Mazutis, Prekevicius, Vasiliauskas,

Keep in mind that all those players were taken at PG by the Lithuanian coaching staff because they had potential and they were seen by the coaches as the best of the available alternatives. But when it comes to potential there's many a slip 'twixt cup and lip.

:)
 
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R. Giedraitis is trash defensively and struggled offensively in all tournaments so far (19, 21, 22).

The book, i.e. conventional wisdom, on Rokas Giedraitis here on this board is that he doesn't shine unless he's a key part of a team's starting lineup. Well then why not start Giedraitis at SG? Neither Margiris Normantas or Tomas Dimša really shone at SG this tournament while Marius Grigonis seems to have lost a step and might beg off from participating on the team again next summer anyway.

:confused:
 
The book, i.e. conventional wisdom, on Rokas Giedraitis here on this board is that he doesn't shine unless he's a key part of a team's starting lineup. Well then why not start Giedraitis at SG? Neither Margiris Normantas or Tomas Dimša really shone at SG this tournament while Marius Grigonis seems to have lost a step and might beg off from participating on the team again next summer anyway.

:confused:

He had a chance to play big minutes this summer, but he decided to skip it. Next year he won't have that luxury. Iggy will be used at 3 cause Butkevicius will be coming back and even Ulanovas may join, and if Grigonis shows up Giedraitis is not even needed. Rokas Giedraitis NT career has been simply bad.

Besides, I think Rubstavicius may surprise people. I see a scenario when he challenges any SG in the camp. He won't be better than Iggy, Grigonis yet, but he may be ready to challenge them a bit. Meaning he's passing all other Lithuanian SGs. It may not happen as soon next summer, but a possibility nevertheless. He is legitimate second round NBA prospect and he will be 22yo next summer. More or less proper time (22-23yo) to make NT for really talented guard.
 
dinosour expert explain us why


Your praised Nba player Sirvydis lost individual battle to lkl guards Kariniauskas,Dimsa,Normantas in 2023 NT camp summer?

Firstly in trainings to get only 5th guard minutes and after that in tournament too ,when our ale best shooter Sirvydis was 2nd worst shooter on entire team
 
dinosour expert explain us why


Your praised Nba player Sirvydis lost individual battle to lkl guards Kariniauskas,Dimsa,Normantas in 2023 NT camp summer?

Firstly in trainings to get only 5th guard minutes and after that in tournament too ,when our ale best shooter Sirvydis was 2nd worst shooter on entire team

Redneck expert

He didn't lose anything to Kariniauskas. His position was 2-3 wing role player off the bench for very short stretches. It's very difficult to cover this position. Even players as R. Giedraitis or Milaknis (2017) struggled with that. Sirvydis as expected was inconsistent. Some good sparkles, some bad stretches. IMO, he still showed more than R. Giedraitis dealing with such role. Obviously Giedraitis doesn't feel comfortable with such role while I think Sirvydis does pretty well, it's just a matter of experience and maturity. He is not yet finished product as a player surely. He also needs one consistent season at PROs again to be in his optimal shape. Maksvytis rightfully gave very limited role for him, he needs more time still, but don't have any illusions that this role is easily covered. A lot of players would struggle with it. How I see Sirvydis going further? I think he has a chance to develop into useful role player at the wing, specially going off the staggers. In other words, perfecting and increasing that role that Maksvytis gave him this year. When Maksvytis said he sees him as one one of the keys in the future, I definitely don't see that. Solid role player both EL (like true EL player ale R. Giedraitis) and NT is what I see. When he was 17-18yo I was projecting him as much more versatile player (in U18 EB he still looked as the guy with highest upside next to Jokubaitis and D. Giedraitis, that length,ability to put the ball on the floor, flexibility, elite three), nearly point forward, playing with the ball a lot, but his development arc tuned the other way latter and he became more of the off ball shooter, losing a stint of ball handling, agility (guard skill). For him is the key to improve D (the motor is there, but latteral quickness and flexibility not really), then he would get a job as 3 and D kinda guy in many teams.
 
Dinosour expert


But didnt fiba history teaches us that rookies wont make shots in first fiba tournament?

Sirvydis is latest example. Best shooter on entire team before tournament suddenly become one of worst shooters :rolleyes:


How do you know that next youngster you will be praising here wont miss those shots too in his rookie tournament?
 
Dinosour expert


But didnt fiba history teaches us that rookies wont make shots in first fiba tournament?

Sirvydis is latest example. Best shooter on entire team before tournament suddenly become one of worst shooters :rolleyes:


How do you know that next youngster you will be praising here wont miss those shots too in his rookie tournament?

Sirvydis played just 10mpg, scored 5ppg playing without the ball all the time. How much more can you ask from a 10min. player? Specially the rook? 32% is not a tragedy for guy who goes off the staggers, for a rookie. I doubt many guys could do much better in this role. Maksvytis made a good decision, IMO, he didn't waste a spot of a guy who would show up only in one tournament and no-one would see him again. Now Sirvydis can cover this role in the future if we will need that kind of player.

BTW, Brazdeikis last year shot the ball well as a rookie. Sirvydis performance definitely depended a lot on shooting and he failed with it to certain extent, but not miserably. When we speak about potential rookies of 2024 (Tubelis, Rubstavicius, Velicka, Marciulionis, D. Giedraitis), then neither of them depends on three so much as Sirvydis. They can add good things aside shooting. Much like Jokubaitis provided in 2021, 2022 as a rookie despite shooting poorly.
 
Next year he won't have that luxury. Iggy will be used at 3 cause Butkevicius will be coming back and even Ulanovas may join, and if Grigonis shows up Giedraitis is not even needed.

I take it you mean Iggy will be used at 2. He was used at 3 in this year's World Cup.

:confused:
 
Eureka! Finally I have a player which opinion is just absolutely spot on. His insight are straight, up to contemporary ball and no parialities. And it's Gecevicius. All summer long good insights. Kleiza is close to that, but he has a little bit lazy brains and he's not so observant. Gecevicius openly trashed JV's defense and his slow decisions and predictability offensively (ex teammate in Rytas), he trashed D-Mo's slow and ineffective step outs (ex teammate in youth NT and NT), he said today - Margiris didn't disappoint and didn't surprise in NT which is absolutely spot on. And most importantly - both Dimsa and Normantas are not guards that are needed for contemporary basketball which is also complete true. Finally I have voice that I can fully trust, and, boy, it's rarity. The talk about Normantas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhCysLcgGPI&ab_channel=O,Dangau!
 
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