Euroleague/Club Competition 2019-20: Signings & Rumours - vol. I

[Toruko]

The issue with betting on young players who have not hit their prime is... They go to NBA

I think the main problem is money for us right now. It all comes down to what the budget will be. Then we will be able to discuss anything else.

This problem is not only yours. Real Madrid is facing the same problem. There are 30 teams in the NBA and each team has 15 men roster so the capacity of the NBA covers 450 player. The best will go of course. There are just a few exceptions who wanted to stay although they could have a good career in the states like Bodiroga, Diamantidis, Llull, Navarro etc.

This is a problem everyone has to face. Thats why you need to have a good youth work which can contribute talent each year. This will supply you with hungry and talented player and and press down the costs.

[janketa]

This problem is not only yours. Real Madrid is facing the same problem. There are 30 teams in the NBA and each team has 15 men roster so the capacity of the NBA covers 450 player. The best will go of course. There are just a few exceptions who wanted to stay although they could have a good career in the states like Bodiroga, Diamantidis, Llull, Navarro etc.

This is a problem everyone has to face. Thats why you need to have a good youth work which can contribute talent each year. This will supply you with hungry and talented player and and press down the costs.

We can add to that if you risk and lets say have contract with Biberovic for 5 years without nba option, then you have player who will contribute at least 3 seasons at his peak. It's a big question why Bogdan left to NBA and why his contract included that option. Gherardini mafia at his best.

Next season after title the only team that could beat Real with Doncic was Fener with Bogdan.

[Toruko]

We can add to that if you risk and lets say have contract with Biberovic for 5 years without nba option, then you have player who will contribute at least 3 seasons at his peak. It's a big question why Bogdan left to NBA and why his contract included that option. Gherardini mafia at his best.

Next season after title the only team that could beat Real with Doncic was Fener with Bogdan.

A player who has NBA ambitions wont sign a contract without a nba backdoor but you can gain money out of the player. Anyway, with the financial situation right now a good hand with young guys is crucial.

[janketa]

A player who has NBA ambitions wont sign a contract without a nba backdoor but you can gain money out of the player. Anyway, with the financial situation right now a good hand with young guys is crucial.

I bet Biberovic would sign 5 year contract without NBA option right now. It's a risk from both sides

[Toruko]

I bet Biberovic would sign 5 year contract without NBA option right now. It's a risk from both sides

If i was Tarik i wouldnt sign any contract with Fenerbahce. This club is about to ruin his talent straight ahead. Topuk like Yurtseven did would be the best for him.

[janketa]

If i was Tarik i wouldnt sign any contract with Fenerbahce. This club is about to ruin his talent straight ahead. Topuk like Yurtseven did would be the best for him.

Kiutlay made his career in Fenerbahce as young player and reached his peak in Pao as the best scorer in final EL game. It's not just Fener, in this case Obradovic and Gherardini factors are more guilty

[Katastroika]

Bogdanovic came as high ceiling prospect and struggled a lot in terms of shooting and consistency in his first season. Nevertheless ZOC gave him heavy minutes although he wasnt ready at all. In his second year near the end i was sure he wouldnt make the jump to a top player but in the third year he proved me wrong.

Guduric is another story. Despite being not ready in his first year as well. He had big pick and roll issues and didnt know when to shoot he was shown big patience and was also used heavily in the final four. He was never a high ceiling prospect and never a top level Euroleague team player but he developed to a complete player in time with Fenerbahce.

Before entering the nba (biggest deal financially for Fenerbahce) he was talking stuff like he wants to stay 10 years with Fenerbahce etc. Sometimes life is to good to you.

Wrong and wrong. Both played excellent Euroleague seasons when they came to Fener ,excellent national team competitions and excellent domestic championships where they've been the main players in a final series.

Bogdanovic won the title for Partizan against a very good zvezda team and dropped 123 points (!) in the final series, he dropped +30 on CSKA and game winners against Maccabi in EL. He came as a very important piece of a team that went to the World Cup finals.

In his first Fener season he dropped 10.6/2.5/2.5 in EL as a newcomer. I hope that all bad seasons in Fener are played like this. I would love to see such bust seasons at zvezda from all players.

Guduric played an excellent EL season for zvezda, he was MVP of U20 EC, won the title for zvezda with clutch basket in a very hostile atmosphere against Partizan, he had games like against Efes or Bayern where we thought he is the new big thing in Serbian basketball. People started saying he is better than Bogdan. Btw he scored in his first EL season for Fener 55% from the field and 44% from 3.

I don't get into the other things where I disagree to certain extent, too but calling them not proven players is simply ridiculous. I would love to see a poll here - I am curious how many would agree with you on that one.

[Toruko]

Wrong and wrong. Both played excellent Euroleague seasons when they came to Fener ,excellent national team competitions and excellent domestic championships where they've been the main players in a final series.

Bogdanovic won the title for Partizan against a very good zvezda team and dropped 123 points (!) in the final series, he dropped +30 on CSKA and game winners against Maccabi in EL. He came as a very important piece of a team that went to the World Cup finals.

In his first Fener season he dropped 10.6/2.5/2.5 in EL as a newcomer. I hope that all bad seasons in Fener are played like this. I would love to see such bust seasons at zvezda from all players.

Guduric played an excellent EL season for zvezda, he was MVP of U20 EC, won the title for zvezda with clutch basket in a very hostile atmosphere against Partizan, he had games like against Efes or Bayern where we thought he is the new big thing in Serbian basketball. People started saying he is better than Bogdan. Btw he scored in his first EL season for Fener 55% from the field and 44% from 3.

I don't get into the other things where I disagree to certain extent, too but calling them not proven players is simply ridiculous. I would love to see a poll here - I am curious how many would agree with you on that one.

Well it depends on your expectations. The point here is for what use you transfer a player and if he can reach his ceiling. Bogdanovic was surely on a level where he could contribute in Euroleague but he had ups and down which is totally normal.

Nobody denied btw that Guduric is a very capable shooter but someone who says that he is better than Bogdanovic or could be doesnt know much about BB.

A guy with almost hardly athleticism, quickness, average ball handling skills who is also lacking lateral quickness and sleeps in every third defense situation isnt material for a top european team. He does everything a bit but nothing really good except shooting.

I suppose you got my comments total wrong.

[CoachZ]

You have a great prospect named Tarik Biberovic. Ok he is not 22 like Bogdanovic or Guduric but he is with Fenerbahce for many many years. ZOC just needs to utilize him and shows some patience like he did with Bogdanovic or Guduric in the first season.

You wont find a better prospect on the Balkan peninsula than him 2001 born except maybe Nakic and Pokusevski and Pokusevski is still a big question mark.

ZOCs logic is understandable and easy. You play when you are ready but as a young player you also need to be shown patience. The main differece between a real big team and Fenerbahce is a long term plan. CSKA doesnt need to raise because the money comes directly from Kremlin thats why it is important to look at Real Madrid

Huge difference. When Bogdanovic was signed and given a chance, he had a Young Star EL award, an he single-handledly beat Red Star to win the Serbian title. He was young but he was experienced in the highest level of basketball in Europe and he was ready. Biberovic is another junior prospect with jack shit of experience playing against grown men.

Guduric came with 2 years of EL, ABA and Serbian league experience where he played 20 minutes a game etc. Same story.

I am not saying Biberovic is not talented, but he is a kid playing kid sports. He needs to be playing against men before being given such a huge responsibility. A loan this year to a weaker TBL team should be the right move...

[ZalgirisFanForLife]

Grigonis would be a great pickup for Fener, because he has the upside, he doesn't have a big ego and could take a smaller role as he grows into a more important one is such a club. Walkup I would not call a pass-first guy, since he is a combo scoring guard more than a true PG. His defense is overrated and in terms of creating out of PnR he is far from elite. Guys like Tonye Jekiri from Asvel would be a great pickup for Fener. Absolute monster on the boards, excellent defender in the paint. Young, still developing player that will at worst be a solid EL starter. Ponitka from Zenit would be another great addition on the wing. A guy that is a supreme rebounder and penetrator from the position and can hit the 3. Hard worker, high character guy.

When it comes to Zalgiris, you have a same story like Zvezda, and that is to try to balance playing local talent and getting imports that are not big names yet but could be. That is the only recipe that works for teams like ours and our budgets. Some smart things to consider.

- Try to get Aaron White back from Milano. You need athleticism and stretch from the PF spot, and the downfall of Jankunas is opening a space for him. Keeping and LeDay would be a solid option there. Other solid options would be Whittington from Galatasaray. Excellent PF with range, athleticism and can even rim protect.
- Try to get Geidraitis back to Lithuania from Alba Berlin. Having guys like Grigonis and Gedraitis on the wings will create a looooot of space in the play and they will not collapse on defense and get destroyed. Big wing guys, with excellent shot and range, smart/low turnover players.
- You need a center who is a different profile from Landale. Someone that is going to kill it in the Pick'n'Roll and actually act as a rim protector. Johnathan Hamilton from Darusafaka is somebody who immediately comes to mind.

Zalgiris has to follow upcoming guys on all positions and get ready to pounce and upgrade the roster. Let go of some players as their salary demands grow. For example, in terms of guards, I really like Alex Hamilton from Maccabi Rishon Lezion. He played in Lithuania a year before that. Kid's making moves.

Whittington I liked even a year ago, when he was playing in Israel. Alex Hamilton, didn't really made a big impression in Juventus, he was just another american 1v1 player, nothing special overall, but this year he made some difference in his hoops. Maybe interesting player, who knows. Also, Tomas Dimša could join Zalgiris. Giedraitis could go to NBA or top EL team, according to lithuanian media. Jonathon Hamilton is also an interesting choice.

[janketa]

We should go for Gill instead of Williams. That would be closest to Melli we can do in this moment.
It's obvious that big downgrade from Melli to Wiliams is one of the biggest reasons for this season disaster.

[Toruko]

Huge difference. When Bogdanovic was signed and given a chance, he had a Young Star EL award, an he single-handledly beat Red Star to win the Serbian title. He was young but he was experienced in the highest level of basketball in Europe and he was ready. Biberovic is another junior prospect with jack shit of experience playing against grown men.

Guduric came with 2 years of EL, ABA and Serbian league experience where he played 20 minutes a game etc. Same story.

I am not saying Biberovic is not talented, but he is a kid playing kid sports. He needs to be playing against men before being given such a huge responsibility. A loan this year to a weaker TBL team should be the right move...

Yeah i know and youre right. I just came up with the idea to throw him into the cold water because i dont think Fenerbahce will loan him anyway. I mean he had some youth games and was too much for that league as expected and i am sure he is also too good for TBL.

He is strong enough for BSL but he has a really weak awareness of what is happening on the court and tthis is why i see the optimal solution in giving a second league team to his command to let him gain some feeling for the game among men.

It was not my intention to give him the responsibility that Guduric or Bogdanovic had at least not in Euroleague but he must play at least in the domestic league. He is too valuable to waste his talent. Although i see many things of Bogdan Bogdanovic in him there are some more things he is ahead of Bogdan of back then.

For example Bogdan always could run pick and roll games but his iso game was not so good and Biberovic has a bigger frame than Bogdanovic. He reminds me of a mix of Bojan and Bogdan...

[Toruko]

We should go for Gill instead of Williams. That would be closest to Melli we can do in this moment.
It's obvious that big downgrade from Melli to Wiliams is one of the biggest reasons for this season disaster.

It will be a guy from the G-League or China anyway.

[CoachZ]

Yeah i know and youre right. I just came up with the idea to throw him into the cold water because i dont think Fenerbahce will loan him anyway. I mean he had some youth games and was too much for that league as expected and i am sure he is also too good for TBL.

He is strong enough for BSL but he has a really weak awareness of what is happening on the court and tthis is why i see the optimal solution in giving a second league team to his command to let him gain some feeling for the game among men.

It was not my intention to give him the responsibility that Guduric or Bogdanovic had at least not in Euroleague but he must play at least in the domestic league. He is too valuable to waste his talent. Although i see many things of Bogdan Bogdanovic in him there are some more things he is ahead of Bogdan of back then.

For example Bogdan always could run pick and roll games but his iso game was not so good and Biberovic has a bigger frame than Bogdanovic. He reminds me of a mix of Bojan and Bogdan...

I agree, he has to play. I meant BSL, not TBL. The league changed the name recently. Just loan him to a bottom feeding team that has no results imperative where he will play 25+ minutes and have a clear role. That is the only way to see if he is ready to cut it or not.

I think that he does not have the elite handle to be able to handle being a SG with ISO skills and a go-to scorer. He will probably end up as a SF that can create with ball in his hands. Probably some kind of Joe Ingles type of player. Which is good, this is where basketball is going...

[Katastroika]

This is the best that can happen in my opinion. SF in Europe literally is there to make offensive rebounds and spread. Everything more is a huge plus for every team. The one thing I see at Biberovic is a beautiful stroke, everything else is nothing special compared to other children in his age. But as Toruko mentioned, frame is there, he can surely grow into a good player if given minutes. But speaking about mix of Bojan and Bogdan, I don't know if it is good for children to set this standards. He has a lot of bread to it like all other 18 year old kids.

Coach, did you see Krunoslav Simon in Srdjan Radojevic's podcast "give and go"? They spoke about exactly that issue. He is maybe the only SF in Europe that is creating and not playing as a wing hunting offensive rebounds and waiting for an outlet.

Clyburn and Simon and that's literally it. Interesting fact: Kruno claims that no SF in Europe sets picks AND runs through double screens. Ataman allows this, no other coach does. Because they simply have different expectations of SF position. Very trendy Ergin style

I remember when I learned basketball as a child a horn double screen didn't even exist, at least I cannot remember something similar, if you would have told back then the position 3 to set it, coach would have been declared case for psychatry.

To finalize my opinion - the most modern SF that ultimately disappointed me the most was Kuzminskas. He was like created to be the next level future thing as SF. We spoke here a few times about it, but his downfall since Unicaja is incredible.