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The future of the Turkish NT

  • Thread starter Thread starter Toruko2
  • Start date Start date
Generally speaking, there's no definite answers at 1-3. More like a bunch of role players. From your prospects there's no single 1-3 players drafted or having indisputable upside to be elite EL piece.

My opinion is closer to yours as to Torukos. But you have the general thinking that a Turk cant be a talented bb player. Turkish bb produced the best prospects at SG/SF with Cedi Osman(95), Okben Ulubay(96), Furkan Korkmaz(97), Onuralp Bitim(99)(we can even add Tolga Gecim to the list). But if you dont give any perspective to your young players, then you will lose those talents. My opinion is always the same, you can have 1 time success with luck but if you want be a serious nation then you need EL. Sehmus Hazer played a great championship but ataman gave the bad player Dogus Ozdemiroglu a bigger role in the Belgium game, even that shows we cant take turkish NT too serious. Hazer needs to be a member of your NT for the following years. If we have no studs at SG/SF then its because of our system not because of lack of turkish genes.
 
My opinion is closer to yours as to Torukos. But you have the general thinking that a Turk cant be a talented bb player. Turkish bb produced the best prospects at SG/SF with Cedi Osman(95), Okben Ulubay(96), Furkan Korkmaz(97), Onuralp Bitim(99)

Oh, no, far from that. Turkey has very talented and elite frontline prospects as Bona, Buyuktuncel and Sengun is already elite player. Yes, basically he's already elite and could be unleashed more, but Houston simply doesn't need to rush with it.

My point was that ATM there's no elite perimeter players. Cedi, Korkmaz are generally role players. I wish you would find one and have your national team, not international team as you have had recently.

Overall, we can conclude that NT competition is dead. It's international competition and free market of buying American players which makes whole thing rather pathetic. FIBA destroyed everything. The only ambivalently positive thing left that when national team will beat international teams and win it all, the joy will be even bigger.
 
I can't understand why morons like Melih and Tuncer have adventage in front of guys like Yiğit Arslan for instance. There are even more good players on that positions in BSL but we stucked with two idiots
 
I can't understand why morons like Melih and Tuncer have adventage in front of guys like Yiğit Arslan for instance. There are even more good players on that positions in BSL but we stucked with two idiots

The Turkish coaches know what they can get from Mahmutoglu and trust his experience. If they would use Arslan and the team loses the Turkish press and especially the FB fans would ask immediately why "such a sharpshooter" like Mahmutoglu wasnt used.

Tuncer was simply a mistake thats all he wont be in front of guys like Sipahi or others.
 
Sengun seems to have developed a very solid push shot from the mid range area. His fgp is amazing and Silas finally understood that he cant play over KPJ and Green and gave Sengun the ball again instead using him as a rolling big. Sengun is a very good rolling big btw. His elite touch and BBIQ make him really special. Also his timing in the blocks improved but there are also areas where he still needs to improve. One part is positioning. He causes too many fouls because he doesnt know very well how to guard without his hands and everytime he sticks his hands into man there is a danger of fouling and he still needs to get stronger.

One more advantage that I can see is Sengun doesnt need much space to operate. His body has a weird elasticity which makes him able to create shots in tight spaces which again he makes with high percentage. He has to develop an outside shot to become really unguardable but he is still 20 years old so it will come eventually. He has the mental strength and the motor to deliver every night. It is just a question of time that he reaches allstar level.

Nevertheless he is not able to guard top guys like Jokic. Giannis on FIBA courts might be possible because he has no post game and he cant guard post games very well but Jokic is too big and too skilled for him. Generally to get a team a well functioning team without significant weaknesses we need someone who can clean the mess Sengun causes in the defense. Bona is the almost perfect fit and thats why a reliable push shot is so important. Bona has not many weapons in the offense right now but he can position him well for passes and he is a very solid lob target and this is everything Sengun needs.

Bona additionally shows some new upside as a very solid pick and roll defender. His positioning between the guard and the rolling big is still bad but he is getting better and better. Sengun and Bona could be the best fitting big rotation in Europe and I truly believe they will fit very well.

Backups would be in a perfect world Yurtseven, Sanli, Haltali and Yigitoglu so there are many options. I expect greatness of Sadik Emir Kabaca too. He really has everything what a stretch four in the NBA needs to have. He is much more consistent this season and considering the mess GS is having right now he will leave GS at the end of the season. To become a real asset he needs to be better on defense, if he can achieve a level of being a sufficient defender at the top level my god this team will be a hell of a modern team. Ercan Osmani is right now the readier one for sure but he has his mistakes too.

If we consider which is coming from the youth this is really an amazing luxury problem. Buyuktuncel, Yigit Hamza Mestoglu (who shows glimpses of a very solid defender) and my favorite player Kerem Kuthan Konan.

The big rotation is really in very good hands.

For the backcourt there is not much new to say. Onuralp Bitim has been getting more and more experienced and is really good at creating for his mates. Of course not a main decision maker material but he will help a lot coming from the bench. ?mercan Ilyasoglu would be a big surprise if he could make a jump to the NT. Right now he is unusable just a taller Tuncer and nothing more.

I am still very high on the TED guard Omer Yasir Kucuk. Still difficult to say if he is ready for the BSL but he is the best PG in Turkey right now ceiling wise I mean. 2024 he should be an option for the NT. Mert Akay hasnt returned yet and we cant say anything about him right now but if he clicks there is nothing to fear and the team is ready. Up to that date our main guy is Kenan Sipahi and I am sure Ataman learned his lesson. Skill wise he doesnt deserve to be on this skilled team but he is the most ready and the best what we have right now.

Another possible, important piece is the sharp shooter Sarper David Mutaf. Sure is not in the main rotation this season but unlike last season he is getting minutes and is on the verge of getting in the rotation. He made a big jump becoming a pro player. Defense doesnt look that bad either. Not a prospect anymore.

It might still be not enough for the top european teams 2024 (France and Serbia) but for all the other teams there is no reason to be afraid of. I personally think that Italy will be very strong in the future.
 
Bona and Sengun is not a good fit. Both are centers. It's the same situation as with JV, Sabonis essentially, it's just that Bona doesn't have offense at all basically. Bona would be very good fit next Markkanen, not Sengun who can't shoot from three and is best at 5. And it's not like Sengun can really guard mobile 4s.

20yo is still a prospect very much.

It will be very hard to sneak into Olympics. You already lost the chance to sneak through WC and in qualification Turkey won't be favorites.

I understand why you like Italy. Rather similar playing style.
 
Bona and Sengun is not a good fit. Both are centers. It's the same situation as with JV, Sabonis essentially, it's just that Bona doesn't have offense at all basically. Bona would be very good fit next Markkanen, not Sengun who can't shoot from three and is best at 5. And it's not like Sengun can really guard mobile 4s.

20yo is still a prospect very much.

It will be very hard to sneak into Olympics. You already lost the chance to sneak through WC and in qualification Turkey won't be favorites.

I understand why you like Italy. Rather similar playing style.

No, its not the same like JV and Sabonis. JV and Sabonis are both bad defenders and non shooters in a team without any floor stretching at least not reliable. The Turkish NT is full of very good shooters and a defensive anchor like Bona is the solution. Bona is also a huge lob target who will be used very well with a passer like Sengun.

Senguns mid range threat is enough to give Bona space to operate but a three point threat would complete everything. Senguns weaknesses on the defensive end with playing four will be diminished by Bona who is one of the best help defenders that I saw. It will work almost perfect.

About the Olympics "you can fail while trying but you have already failed when you dont try". The first qualification group will be easy the second is with solid teams but like I wrote there is nothing to fear.
 
Same thing offensively - clogged paint.

It's not like Sengun is a perimeter, long mid-range PF as some Aldridge. Sengun is highly expressed post player, inside player. From time to time, sure, he can make a jimmy, but it's not like he will be spending his days in the perimeter lobbing offensively skil-less Bona. Offensively there's no solution to play them together except short stretches. You'll have to build around Sengun and get the best from his as he is by far the biggest gem of your bb. Pushing Sengun to 4 just to have Bona at 5, it would be even more idiotic move than to sacrifice Sabonis and push to the 4 position just because there a role player JV.

Were the optimism may come for Turkey is that Sengun-Buyuktuncel and Bona-Buyuktuncel may work a bit better if Buyuktuncel will develop his shot and he can do it to decent extent I think. Then Buyuktuncel may camp at the perimeter providing threes and drives from outside, leaving Sengan dominating the paint.

Again, the luxury of having such players as prime Dirk, Markkanen, Porzingis or even Kleiza, Ilyasova can't be overrated. All these talks how you can integrate 2 huge dudes in the paint, or mid-range area is always doomed to bigger or lesser fail. Specially now-days.

Something like prime Ilyasova next to Sengun would be brilliant. Just as Sabonis would thrive with such player. Those hand offs and instant catch and shoot threes. Deadly.
 
Same thing offensively - clogged paint.

Thats why I wrote "almost perfect" and not "perfect".

It's not like Sengun is a perimeter, long mid-range PF as some Aldridge. Sengun is highly expressed post player, inside player.

Basically, this is correct but watch his last 3-4 games and even Eurobasket. He knows that he hasnt the strength to push NBA bigs or beat them with athleticism etc. thats why he plays with a mid range shot and he is very efficient with it. Its like a bucket for him and this helps a lot when it comes to being combined with Bona. Bona will be used as a transition guy. He is like an arrow when you get the defensive rebound and he is a hustler under the rim. His fakes are also very effective to create for himself just it is not translatable for FIBA right now.

From time to time, sure, he can make a jimmy, but it's not like he will be spending his days in the perimeter lobbing offensively skil-less Bona.

Sure, he wont be playing 4 at the whole time but 15-20 minutes with Bona sure. To be more effective Sengun needs an outside shot but he has the rest of the season and a whole summer for it.

Offensively there's no solution to play them together except short stretches.

This is simply not right.

Pushing Sengun to 4 just to have Bona at 5, it would be even more idiotic move than to sacrifice Sabonis and push to the 4 position just because there a role player JV.

Sabonis main problem is he has everything on the offensive end except a mid range or a long range jumper and this is the main problem in the LTU NT. With Sengun it is different in terms of shooting from the mid range and hopefully also from the long range.

Were the optimism may come for Turkey is that Sengun-Buyuktuncel and Bona-Buyuktuncel may work a bit better if Buyuktuncel will develop his shot and he can do it to decent extent I think.

Surely and option, just we dont know how he will develop just in 1,5 years but one thing is clear the Turkish team can score but it cant defend any high pick and roll action, thats why Bona is crucial for this team. He is just as important as Sengun because you play 50% offense and 50% defense. I dont count on him right now. I mean Berke...

Then Buyuktuncel may camp at the perimeter providing threes and drives from outside, leaving Sengan dominating the paint.

Sengun will have his time on five just not the whole time.

Again, the luxury of having such players as prime Dirk, Markkanen, Porzingis or even Kleiza, Ilyasova can't be overrated. All these talks how you can integrate 2 huge dudes in the paint, or mid-range area is always doomed to bigger or lesser fail. Specially now-days.

These guys dont grow on threes and again I have no worries about scoring I want the team to be able to defend and the Turkish team has the material for it.

Something like prime Ilyasova next to Sengun would be brilliant. Just as Sabonis would thrive with such player. Those hand offs and instant catch and shoot threes. Deadly.

Sure but you cant have someone who isnt available. Thats why the whole basketball community expecting him to grow.

 
I want to write season evaluation from my point of view before Olympic Qualification 2023.

Şeng?n: Almost a star, we do not have this type of player for a long time.

Osman: Average season

Korkmaz: Too bad, he needs to be traded.

Yurtseven: Injuried, but there is room in Miami for him. Expect good season end.

Şanlı: Average season

Larkin: Injured but he seems good physically. I think will be ready for summer after the third Euroleague championship.

Bitim: Good season, Eurocup MVP caliber.

Kabaca: Good season

Saybir: Good season

Osmani: Average season

?zdemiroğlu: Good season

Uğurlu: Average season

Sipahi: Average season

Birsen: Good season

Hazer: Too bad, coaches continue to use him at Pg.

I do not watch enough Ulubay, Yılmaz and Arslan but statistically good season.

It is enough for Tuncer and Mahmutoğlu. I believe Ataman does not give any minute for Tuncer, Mahmutoğlu can be still in rotation.

Prospects:

Bona: Average season, I expect more from him. Still will be drafted.

B?y?ktuncel: Good for beginning, bad after injury. If he could be consistent, he would be drafted but at the moment, he is losing his minutes in even this bad Tofaş.

Demir: Seems good, he can be average player.

Mutaf: Expected him being role player, but he is like garbage time player.

B?y?kcangaz: He can not get enough minutes. Bad season.
 
Slowly but surely, the next generation of the Turkish NT is assuming a shape. We will be very strong especially in the both forward positions
and in the center position.

I am sure that guys like Sadik Emir Kabaca, Ercan Osmani, Berke Buyuktuncel and probably Demir Dogan will take the next step in the following years. Especially Sadik Emir Kabaca can be a very unique and difference making forward.

I didnt even mention names Like Furkan Korkmaz, Cedi Osman, (probably) Tarik Biberovic or Onuralpas Bitimas.

Taking into account that we have a big rotation like Adem Bona, Alperen Sengun, OFY and Samet Yigitoglu we have every type of player which is needed to be successful. Also the balance between defense and offense looks very promising. Considering that we were always a solid offensive team the additions of Buyuktuncel and Bona will entirely solve our defensive problems or lets say most of them.

The only remaining uncertainty is the PG position. Sure, we will survive with Sipahi but this team deserves a top guard and we have guard potentials but they are very young. I still hope that one or two of older guys will pop up in the future.

Emre Melih Tunca (05) is showing a very promising skill set but he needs to take the next step in the Turkish TBL. We cant be sure of any guard in the hands of FB or Efes. Derin Can Ustun has probably the highest upside of all guards and I am also very intrigued with the polishness of Kaan Onat.

Generally spoken, we still lack of a dominant scoring guard. Sure Korkmaz and Bitim can develop to this profile but we cant be sure of it. A solid decision maker and a dominant scorer and we can beat anyone.
 
Rough decade for Turkey so far schedule wise.

Off years:

2020, 2021, 2023, 2024 and 2026 (fiba brake which doesn't make sense BTW)

Playing years;

2022 and almost certainly 2025 (easy qualification group)

In the most scariest scenario, Turkey would show up in only 3 tournaments during 20s (assuming potential failure to qualify to WC 2027 and 2028 OG). In the best case scenario, Turkey wins something in 2027 and maybe even direct (and first ever) ticket to Olympics.
 
Rough decade for Turkey so far schedule wise.

Off years:

2020, 2021, 2023, 2024 and 2026 (fiba brake which doesn't make sense BTW)

Playing years;

2022 and almost certainly 2025 (easy qualification group)

In the most scariest scenario, Turkey would show up in only 3 tournaments during 20s (assuming potential failure to qualify to WC 2027 and 2028 OG). In the best case scenario, Turkey wins something in 2027 and maybe even direct (and first ever) ticket to Olympics.

At first we need a good and balanced team. Success will come eventually.
 
Our NBA guys started season really well. Even Korkmaz did not get enough opportunity, I like his physical condition. He looks like comfortable in the court. ( Sample size for Yurtseven and Bitim is very limited, so they are out of scope). Also, Bona has a monster game for the first game of the season.

I do not know whether it is possible but it would be so nice if we get wild card for olympic qualification. I heard that there will be wild card teams and generally T
 
Our NBA guys started season really well. Even Korkmaz did not get enough opportunity, I like his physical condition. He looks like comfortable in the court. ( Sample size for Yurtseven and Bitim is very limited, so they are out of scope). Also, Bona has a monster game for the first game of the season.

I do not know whether it is possible but it would be so nice if we get wild card for olympic qualification. I heard that there will be wild card teams and generally T

It seems that we lack shooting abilities. If we play with Bona and Sengun the other guys need to be able to shoot. The problem is that we dont have many ready guys who can play on both ends of the floor. I am not happy with Furkan Korkmaz at all. He is straight in the direction of ruining his career entirely.

The backcourt is not as good as it should be. Osman is a good piece nevertheless, although his shot is not very promising. Bitim is far away from being effective in any way and the biggest problem is a play maker who cant shoot at all but with a guard who can create for himself and for others and we can beat anyone in near future.
 
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I agree the weaknesses you stated but I think playing with both Yurtseven and Sengun also hurt as this summer. It was a problem in offense but more importantly it was bigger problem in defence. Now, Sengun is playing bigger role in a competitive team. We lacked Osman. Korkmaz was not in good condition, he seems better now. Ataman is a smart coach. I believe he realizes his mistakes and will build a team around Sengun. Yurtseven as a back up center. This year, we do not have a BSL player to step up. Maybe Biberovic. Tunca played did stats in few games but it is too early for him. Again Sipahi plays well but he is a problem in important games. Arslan and Yılmaz started solid. I wonder why Can gives more minutes Altuntas than Demirel. I think Demirel is more ready and has more upside. Buyuktuncel is not cleared by NCAA but he seems fit and ready. I hope he evolves more small forward position in a UCLA with big stacked. Some improvement from Bitim maybe. I think we will be better next summer than this summer if everything goes in their way.
 
Ergin Ataman anounced that he is gonna invite Tarik Biberovic to the NT in the upcoming window.
 
I believe that the addition of Biberovic to the NT will have a more significant positive impact on the court than anticipated. At this point, we lack a highly performing versatile shooter who can excel at the top level. Therefore, I expect Biberovic to provide a clear positive contribution especially in the upcoming two games and beyond. Setting aside shooters like Mahmutoglu whose expiration date has passed, Biberovic appears to be the player that the sets can be played on, thus easing the team's on-court parcelization. Particularly in the next two games, a potentially high-performing Biberovic could unexpectedly become an integral part of the team in the following period.

Addedly, Biberovic is a contender to become a serious Euroleague player, and especially with his performance this season, he is beginning to show promise for the future once again after that time he came into prominence as a high level prospect. However, I still believe that spending a season in a lower-tier team where he would take on more responsibility in offense and engage in more actions would be necessary for his career to progress more solidly. Although he has a role in the current Fenerbahce roster, he does not have enough opportunity to solve problems on the court. I believe that in a system where he would be the main actor in offense, he would thrive. While some players' performances do not necessarily increase in proportion to the minutes they play, I believe the opposite will happen with Biberovic, and he will evolve into a more scorer and effective player in more substantial playing time. In a scenerio that Biberovic having a season with let's say Karsiyaka, could elevate his game to a whole new level. Since he is currently a player whose offensive boundaries are sharply defined, experiencing a more relaxed atmosphere where he can break out of those boundaries will provide him with valuable experience that will contribute to his progress in the Euroleague in the future.
 
I didnt expect to win in Italy in the first place but the first half was really embarrassing play making wise. Especially the time in the second quarter we gave Hazer the ball was horrible. This kid is raised and developed in a fully wrong way. Being too short for a shooting guard and not a shooter he was raised as a 2-3 guy by just being 190cm. Its only natural that he is struggling right now.

The only useful play maker with serious flaws is Kenan Sipahi. He did everything he could and with a solid lob target his true value will be more evident but Sanli - Sipahi doesnt work at all. Sanli cant even jump over a thick book.

In addition to that Sadik Emir Kabaca looked horrible. Letting aside his defensive weaknesses he is not playable right now since he is not ready to compete. Every of our fears about SEK became true.

I couldnt understand why Ataman seperated Ulubay and Biberovic. Ulubay is the best defender in this team with serious offensive upside too including play making. I am sure that they can play together. One thing is sure. We need more Euroleague proven player.
 
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