T
Toruko2
Guest
I thought after the harsh end of the Eurobasket 22 we can here about the future developments of the Turkish NT. What is needed? What are the weaknesses and what can we count on in the future.
What did you guys see in Mert Akay at the senior level to count on him so much?
Alperen - I do not understand what change recently but suddenly Silas decided to use Alperen with second unit. In preseason he started games with Alperen but then before the first game everything is changed. The reason behind that decision is they think KPJ and Green are main guys. But this is not correct and they will learn it hard way. I watched the game last night. Green is gifted scorer, also KPJ is nice shooter but KPJ is not a point guard.I think Houston decided their priorities wrongly and they gonna realize it soon. Alperen is in good shape, feels more comfortable beyond arc, and is better defender than last season. I do not like Jabari also but he is still young. Alperen and Green are most talented guys in the team. Alperen needs to put numbers like 15 pt, 10 reb and more every night. He has an opportunity in this season and I think he would do it. He can be Allstar in the future.
Furkan - He is out of rotation. But I think he was good in EuroBasket and preseason. This decision is not base on the fact that Furkan is worse than other guys. They have biases on him because of last season. But Phila has problems, they are 0-2. They almost get nothing from bench. No scoring, no playmaking. Team depends on Harden. At some point, Furkan would have a chance. Phila needs him. But it is just my opinion, we will see what will happen.
?mer - He is injured. We can not watch him. But Miami is 0-2 also. It means that they need some change and we gonna see what ?mer can do. But after all, if he does not play for national team, I do not care at all.
Larkin, Akay, Sipahi
Bitim, Korkmaz, Hazer
Osman, Buyuktuncel, Birsen
Bona, Osmani, Kabaca
Sengun, Yurtseven, Sanli
This team will be able to beat anyone in two years.
You mean this team will have a chance to show up on the stage in two years, right?
Seriously, your optimism is always over the top and I like optimistic and passionate posters, but "able to beat anyone" is another exaggeration off course.
Just as you were too optimistic in 2019 saying that 2022 EB will be Turkey's tournament.
SOA, I'm not sure I see starting level 2. Korkmaz may be very close to that, and I think ATM he's either boderline or true starer. So maybe Korkmaz in an answer for this decade at 2. Bitim from what I've seen, and may seen too little, is a scorer, but not exactly complete piece at 2. To be a starter you have to be complete player at 2, IMO. Something like Siskauskas, De Colo, Navarro. To me Bitim seems like shooting first swingman.
FOA, there's no point guard. ATM your absolutely best shot is to go with foreigner once again, but that works rarely. Absolute majority NT which wins medals have their own studs at this position.
There's no staring 3. I could see Buyuktuncel becoming starting 4, but I don't think he's 3. Osman is a role player by all means. If you ask him to do too much, it will be a failure again.
Both Sengun and specially Bona are centers. There's no doubt about it. Sengun may play some 4 too, but not a great fit.
Generally speaking, there's no definite answers at 1-3. More like a bunch of role players. From your prospects there's no single 1-3 players drafted or having indisputable upside to be elite EL piece.
Aside frontline ( think Sengun, Bona, Buyuktuncel) are elite pieces and that should do it, there's no true studs in the backcourt and that's why there's no objective point to claim anything about future success. More like Turkey is not competition for such countries as Spain, France, Serbia (as always).
Spain has Nunez, Lithuania has Jokubaitis and Buzelis, France has Killian Hayes (who's braking out ATM) and Maledon, Cissoko and so on and on and on, Serbia has Micic, Poku and Durisic, Slovenia has at least 3-4 elite perimeter prospects, Germany has Wagner, Italy has Banchero (even if that's not entirely fair, but at least he has some connections with the country). Turkey simply does not have game chancing ball handler/facilitator. There's no truly elite perimeter prospects in Turkey. Korkmaz and Cedi are nice, but not game changers. Buyuktuncel is not a perimeter player.
To be close and to win are 2 different things. Teams like Latvia, Turkey and even Lithuania are good examples recently. Better teams simply win close games. That's how it usually is. It's not like you create good team and sweep everything. You create the good team and you win close games and step on the podium with medal. Being close can be little flattering. You're on the losing side.
You think you can win without fundamentally sound ball handlers, facilitators, elite decision makers. I claim it's basically impossible. Even naturalized Americans with high IQ is very rare. Brown is an exemption and for him it took half a decade to crack EL/FIBA ball. I don't treat Larkin/Wilbekin as elite decision makers/facilitators, they are elite scorers, ISO guards. Turkey badly need former kind of players, not the latter. And locally there's no such material, at least not in the horizon now (unless there's still something in Akay).
With that said, Turkey will be better in 2025- 2030 than you have been 2017-2022. But I don't see pieces that you truly need to change your BB culture which starts with elite decision making and facilitating perimeter players.
First of all Buyuktuncel is both. He is being used as 3 and 4 and sometimes even as 5 but thats not the point. Nunez has shown nothing so far. Sure he is a talented passer but he is struggling scoring wise. To expect him to lead in 2024 is just a dream. Jokubaitis is a player that you are massively overestimating. As I told you before he is a fairly bad perimeter defender and offensively he has no extinct weapons. He is not carrying a team he wont do it in the future and he is not such a type of player. This Buzelis kid is playing in a very low level and you are calculating with a kid who has never come playing for any of your NTs. Let him show something in higher level games then we can talk about his impact.
Slovienia surely has some perimeter player that I like very much but in terms of bigs and 3-4 position players it is fairly blanc. This invincible Slovenian team was beaten by Poland and Bosnia.
Wagner is not a carrier either. Yeah he shot very well and he is really big and can move very well but he alone is not a factor. He is a very good wing defender and he can use his speed and good footwork to go to the rim but what you saw in Germany this summer was a fluke. The point is Germany is also very deep like the Turkish team and has various options. Very good perimeter and wing defenders and even a rim protector with Kleber, Bonga and Wagner, stretching and passing bigs, enough play making and self created shooting quality with Maodo Lo, and a elite slasher with Schr?der. Germany is surely dangerous but not better than the Turkish team in the future.
Banchero is truly different than the others, thats really true. I mean he is fucking huge, Lebron covers insanely much space but Banchero is also tall and he can move with the ball and can pass and he has also shooting upside. He has the whole package.
When we come to the Turkish 1-2 positions. Bitim is right now a far better player than Korkmaz. Writing Korkmaz is nice with letting Bitim aside shows that you dont know about the Turkish team right now. With the play making options you are definitely right. There is much hope with Akay. He hasnt shown anything so far and after two knee injuries we simply cant know his level but like I told you before too this gap can be filled by Larkin easily. He is more than enough making plays. He had more assists than Jokubaitis as I had proclaimed before the Eurobasket.
You are too fixated on perimeter players. Greece had two of them with Calathes and Sloukas and probably the best player in the world with Giannis and got 107 points against Germany? According to your logic they must have won easily. In order to be successful you need every element. Lets take Spain. A very good general defender like Garuba, a specialized perimeter defender like Alberto Diaz a very solid low post scorer with Hernangomez and very good overall role players around who can go to the rim as well as shoot.
If Spain didnt have Alberto Diaz for example Spain wouldnt have won 3 games. He had 3 clear game finishing moves also against LTU.
This is surely correct but you dont get the reasons why this is so. Turkey and LTU are lacking elite defensive stoppers, experience and winner players who can finish the game. LTUs perimeter defense was horrible so ours. You on the other hand had very capable and ready bigs and our bigs looked not very ready and Sengun was too young. The problem is clear. LTU must always choose between offense and defense. If you put Sedekerskis, Ulanovas or even Butkevicius you lose critical offensive power. What you lack is beside a finisher a guy who can make an impact on both ends and for the Turkish side you cant expect a good defending team with Tuncer, Mahmutoglu and Korkmaz. This was an ok offensive team but the defense was more than shit. A better team we could see in the last window. Ataman is learning and this shitty defensive team wil change with the better versions of the current guys Buyuktuncel and Bona.
The Turkish team lacks a star. Thats a point but there are many teams with this disadvantage. We hope Sengun can get to a borderline allstar player with some defensive deficiencies like your Sabonis is but the weapon of the Turkish team will be the deep roster with various players. A balanced offense and defense with all needed elements to be successful.
Like I said you are too fixated on one element of the game. If good decision makers would be enough Greece must have won everything so far. They have two guys better than Brown and the best player in the world right now and Greece couldnt even get a medal. Why so? Its easy. They have too few players who can play on both ends and they lack shooting.
Alberto Diaz and Garuba were much more impactful than Brown could have been in the decisive games.
Dude, Jokuabitis is the best young PG in Euroleague. Has been for 3 years now. I mean what is his competition to begin to downgrade him? 2 years injured Akay? No-one is even close in EL from youngsters to Jokubaitis' readiness.
Nunez is huge. Nothing to take away from him. He was MVP of U20 being 2 years younger. He'll be a baller. Have in mind his age.
Who is carrier if Wagner is not? I mean the guy just scratching the surface. His numbers are nearly equal to Pau's as 21yo rookie in EB. Was Pau not a carrier too? Wagner will be tremendous and game changer for Germany as 2 ways freak. BTW, differently than you, I'm not sure Germany will have what it takes once Schroder will step down.
Buzelis has too many obvious eyes opening advantages to say that he's complete enigma ATM. There's all tools for him to be good. He is registered in FIBA as Lithuanian NT member officially. Off course, he may become some sort of B. Simmons who never comes, but I think he'll play for the NT many seasons.
Greece simply lacking more quality roster ATM and shooting. Sloukas to me is more of a COMBO than PG BTW. I wouldn't want to build around Sloukas as primarily PG. Not for LTU NT. He's more of a rhythm scorer than true facilitator.
Bitim is better than Korkmaz? Are you sure? A guy who scored 0 points in 11 minutes in Eurobasket?
Like from Lithuanian section you nearly believed that Rubstavicius and Murauskas could help NT already. They wouldn't
An no, Diaz was not even close in terms of importance for Spain compared to Brown. Nor was Garuba. Brown was totally key for Spain without a question. If not his ability to run the team, to read mismatches and to make precise decisions, Spain wouldn't go anywhere. He totally closed 8finals against Lithuania, did the same in semis and so on...
Lithuania not only lacking defence, but also perimeter guys who could truly lead like we had in the future with Marciulionis (90s), later Saras/Siska (00's), and even prime Kalnietis (10's). Jokubatis will get there in the future though. And Buzelis has the potential to be indisputable world class perimeter star. To be honest I'm leaning towards the idea to have good starting line-up and few spot on role players than 10-12 average/solid EL players (the team that would probably be considered deep). In other words, give me 3-5 elite pieces and I can live with few defensive mediocrities as my bench. That's how 2017 Slovenia won Eurobasket. That's how Lithuania in 90's had been top 3 NT in Olympics constantly.