Gay and lesbian rights

[sinobball]

No, by you dragging things like those into the discussion. It's at the level of bringing sex with animals to this as many people usually do. It's called demagoguery.

I get it. When you use animal sex as examples it's called natural, when others use animal sex its called demagoguery. I simply used a personal example and you started branding me "disgusting". And you're supposed to defend tolerance? Ah the irony...

[sinobball]

My position:

First of all, homosexuals are not born gay. That's something they DECIDE to become through their experiences with people. Blacks and other ethnic groups are born the way they are so there's no way around the injustices.

As long as they live private sexual life and don't advertise the pervertion on Gay prides and TV - that is OK with me.

I wish the staunch gay defenders here can have the tolerance to understand this position, enough said.

[rikhardur]

I get it. When you use animal sex as examples it's called natural, when others use animal sex its called demagoguery. I simply used a personal example and you started branding me "disgusting". And you're supposed to defend tolerance? Ah the irony...

A non-tolerant stating I'm not tolerant? Ah the irony Don't mix things up please.

[sinobball]

A non-tolerant stating I'm not tolerant? Ah the irony Don't mix things up please.

You used animal sex as examples to claim its natural. When I use it you call me names. These are facts. Now you just called me another name, surely a sign of losing a debate.

[rikhardur]

I don't like how the gay community tries to compare their situation to that of blacks and other ethnic minorities. First of all, homosexuals are not born gay. That's something they DECIDE to become through their experiences with people. Blacks and other ethnic groups are born the way they are so there's no way around the injustices.

Actually there's no decision. It's an orientation, it's within you, there's no way you decide about it. The old view os sexuality as a choice was still full of prejudice. And as if someone would choose to be gay in a society that constantly puts them aside. Many try to repress those feelings and they can't, if it was a choice it would be very simple.

[Straight forward]

Haha pro gay activist tried to insult me that I am gay How tolerant. First built a statement for yourself, believe in that and then write posts.

And don't be eretic here, bicycle drivers are not saint, the incident occurred because some of CM attendants drove wrong way and this led to chain reaction of events. Of course that car driver was stupid too..

Last day I saw couple bicycle drivers riding through crossing and car almost crashed into them. Everybody around started to yell that car driver is crazy but they don't know that rules forbid to ride through crossings. Crossings are only for pedestrians and pedestrians who walk with bicycle.

Learn some Objectivity, then try insulting. If you can't bring arguments then it is "I DONT WASTE TIME ON THAT". hahaha

Insulting and irony are two different things my friend.

[rikhardur]

You used animal sex as examples to claim its natural. When I use it you call me names. These are facts. Now you just called me another name, surely a sign of losing a debate.

Me, name calling? Better leave it there sino, no need to spoil a cordial relationship.

[sinobball]

Actually there's no decision. It's an orientation, it's within you, there's no way you decide about it. The old view os sexuality as a choice was still full of prejudice.

Instead of using words like "prejudice" why don't you get some scientific proof to back your statement? Sure there are probably genes involved like with everything else. I have a friend doing alcohol research with rats. Intentionally induced alcoholic rats give birth to rats with a MUCH MUCH higher tendency to also get alcoholic. So in this sense being alcoholic is also genetic. But does that mean you HAVE TO be alcoholic if you are born with it?

As mentioned before, humans are "higher" than animals. So the "natural" claim is absurd to me. Humans have the capability to make choices.

[Franz]

Actually there's no decision. It's an orientation, it's within you, there's no way you decide about it. The old view os sexuality as a choice was still full of prejudice. And as if someone would choose to be gay in a society that constantly puts them aside. Many try to repress those feelings and they can't, if it was a choice it would be very simple.

You could say that it's orientation. But more often than not, there are gays who have to deal with the issue of coming out the closet or not. Some are afraid of the consequences of being gay, so they never openly admit to it. Others are comfortable about it. That is why I consider it a decision.

[rikhardur]

You could say that it's orientation. But more often than not, there are gays who have to deal with the issue of coming out the closet or not. Some are afraid of the consequences of being gay, so they never openly admit to it. Others are comfortable about it. That is why I consider it a decision.

Well in that sense it's definitely a decision. A decision like telling your girlfriend that you cheated on her or not. The fact is that you did, even if you don't even assume it to yourself.

[rikhardur]

Instead of using words like "prejudice" why don't you get some scientific proof to back your statement? Sure there are probably genes involved like with everything else. I have a friend doing alcohol research with rats. Intentionally induced alcoholic rats give birth to rats with a MUCH MUCH higher tendency to also get alcoholic. So in this sense being alcoholic is also genetic. But does that mean you HAVE TO be alcoholic if you are born with it?

It's not me stating that, it's said by sexologists and psychoanalists. I heard and read about it over the years. You can search about it.

As mentioned before, humans are "higher" than animals. So the "natural" claim is absurd to me. Humans have the capability to make choices.

Do you choose who you fall in love with? I certainly don't. So don't gays and lesbians. It's within them like it's within you to look at someone and desire her.
I know a couple of people that after constant disappointments with dates decided they wanted go lesbians/gays. Of course they couldn't make it, it couldn't be more absurd to think like that. Either you feel or you don't feel.

Now let me watch Euroleague :

[sinobball]

It's not me stating that, it's said by sexologists and psychoanalists. I heard and read about it over the years. You can search about it.

Thus your opinion. I choose to believe in biologists and geneticists. Trust me I've read literature. There hasn't been a conclusive study linking specific genes to homosexuality, unlike with alcohol. But if alcoholic is also by choice, there is no reason that being homosexual is not.

Some of us here have mentioned pedophiles. Would you say they have a "natural orientation" for children too? If not, why the double standard? If yes, do you agree that they can change? Which is my point.

[rikhardur]

Thus your opinion. I choose to believe in biologists and geneticists. Trust me I've read literature. There hasn't been a conclusive study linking specific genes to homosexuality, unlike with alcohol. But if alcoholic is also by choice, there is no reason that being homosexual is not.

Yes, you can add biologists and geneticists to my list as well. Not conclusive I agree, but leaning on that direction. Sexuality is still unknown territory in many regards, but many conclusions have already been drawn.

Some of us here have mentioned pedophiles. Would you say they have a "natural orientation" for children too? If not, why the double standard? If yes, do you agree that they can change? Which is my point.

Nope, paedophiles are known to have previous traumatic experiences. One of them being repressed sexuality (who would tell). This has been scientifically demonstrated. And more, even if it were natural, like say cannibals eating humans (will you tell me they choose that? ), it would be a crime, as children who don't have enough conscience to consent and are easily manipulated are involved.


Man like Morrissey once put it, humans, be it hetero or homo, are sexual, that's all that matters.

My last post on the issue, like I said before I don't like long discussions on the Internet. It's the first time I do this here actually.

[sinobball]

Nope, paedophiles are known to have previous traumatic experiences. One of them being repressed sexuality (who would tell).

Similarly one could say this about homosexuals, which therefore means they are not inherently gay but experiences (such as rejections in heterosexual relationships) made them gay. It's a choice in other words.

I'm out too, this is not getting anywhere. None of us is admittedly gay and nobody here wants to hurt gays. I just don't appreciate your name-calling at times but I won't take it personal. Cheers.

[mvblair]

sexologists

That's the kind of job I want.