Lithuania in Eurobasket 2022

[Straight forward]

I kinda hoped that it's completely evident that I implied JV would skip Eurobasket himself or by mutual agreement with the head coach (like resting or whatever), but I guess an arrow doesn't always hit the target.

The problem is the game style. If you would add elite guard and we would still be playing the same p'n'r and post game only, we would still go down inevitably. We need spacing, ball movement, transition offense and mobility at defence. That's all what we don't have when we play through JV. Stop to even try to cover this shit It's more than obvious. You still sneakingly follow your big dream about how JV will lead NT to medals It's 20s, time to wake up.

The mentality should be to build true powerhouse as we had in 90s and 00s when we constantly contented without much of calculation. It's a half empty or half full glass. You say we lost to only superior teams, I say we are losing to superior teams and that's not where we want to be. The goal is not to try to go after some flukes in 4finals here and there, like once or twice the decade, the goal is to match the best FIBA teams. For that we need to understand contemporary basketball finally and to work on our flaws. Your mentality, I believe, is to try to win the race with the horse instead of trying to establish the culture which would allow to create automobile. We didn't have perimeter players in 10's, because our coaches are those who knows how to raise horses, but have no idea about contemporary motors.

[Straight forward]

Problem is not our world class centers .Problem is our guards that loosing their direct battles to elite NT guards when we face them in direct game.

I think it's about time to stop calling Valanciunas a world class player (both NBA and FIBA). He's not. As well as Sabonis has not been such in FIBA (in NBA he at least was able to lead his team to PO which is at least something which can be related to winning, and winning defines world class players). Both are far from that in FIBA. Sabonis at least sill has a chance to be a world class player for Lithuania maybe, cause he's way more skilled and more contemporary big and he's only yet to play where he is best, that is point center (even though inability to shoot consistently is a huge, huge flaw...and if he won't improve here in upcoming 2 years I don't think he'll ever be world class player in FIBA). So as of yet, they are not world class FIBA players. JV never was such (In 2015 he was only third best PO player in the team, Maciulis and Kalnietis carried us) and never will be.

A world class player is "someone who wins games themselves or prevents losses or draws themselves with a consistency equal to or beyond 2 seasons"

The last world class FIBA player we had was prime Mantas Kalnietis. He led Lithuania in 2013 and 2015 as the best player. Since then we have zero world class players in the roster.

Today in FIBA we have such world class players as Rubio, Bogdanovic, Fournier, P. Mills, Durant and such...Lithuania ATM has no world class FIBA players.

[madmax]

oh yes, SF never fails to remind us that it always has been and always will be JV's fault when Lithuania loses, despite him always putting the best numbers and being the most efficient player on the floor... Yup, it's that basketball lumberjack who is holding us down, not the crappy backcourt or lack of world class smart coaching...

[Straight forward]

oh yes, SF never fails to remind us that it always has been and always will be JV's fault when Lithuania loses, despite him always putting the best numbers and being the most efficient player on the floor... Yup, it's that basketball lumberjack who is holding us down, not the crappy backcourt or lack of world class smart coaching...

It's not what I said. But it's not cool that you still get upset with my position. You shouldn't care. JV would be perfectly useful as a role player of a winning team, something what Marjanovic was doing in 2017 Eurobasket for Serbia, but if JV is the key, game's over.

[Toruko]

It's not what I said. But it's not cool that you still get upset with my position. You shouldn't care. JV would be perfectly useful as a role player of a winning team, something what Marjanovic was doing in 2017 Eurobasket for Serbia, but if JV is the key, game's over.

Well you simply say what what he said. The problem is not JV but the backcourt. JV does JV stuff. He is a board big, he is a bull, a mountain. Every NT would be glad to have him in Europe. He cant create for himself but this is the duty of your backcourt. There is no shame in wanting a modern big but the most needed type in the LTU NT IMO is a go to guy like Fournier or De Colo. There are still other problems but this is the main issue. Grigonis is a good guy but no one who could lead you to success.

[Straight forward]

Well you simply say what what he said. The problem is not JV but the backcourt. JV does JV stuff. He is a board big, he is a bull, a mountain. Every NT would be glad to have him in Europe. He cant create for himself but this is the duty of your backcourt. There is no shame in wanting a modern big but the most needed type in the LTU NT IMO is a go to guy like Fournier or De Colo. There are still other problems but this is the main issue. Grigonis is a good guy but no one who could lead you to success.

Any NT would be glad to have him as a role player, not the leader Even way more skilled and flexible bigs as Sabonis and Vucevic can't truly dominate tiny and physical FIBA court (that's where your enthusiasm about Sengun who is really good off course should also have a shot of doubt I'm afraid), let alone JV who makes others worse when you play through him and he's huge liability defensively. From 4 Olympics semi-finalists you won't see a traditional lumberjack playing any more expressed role. It's our coaching problem and basketball culture issues. Even If we don't have Fournier, Bogdanovic or Mills (or whoever of that kind), does it mean that our chances playing through 2 centers are better than our chances playing more balanced basketball with more involving average/solid guys? I think not, and in the latter case we would at least be watching more attractive basketball and solid EL role players as Grigonis, R. Giedraitis, Lekavicius, Ulanovas, Sedekerskis would be better utilized.

[Toruko]

Any NT would be glad to have him as a role player, not the leader Even way more skilled and flexible bigs as Sabonis and Vucevic can't truly dominate tiny and physical FIBA court (that's where your enthusiasm about Sengun who is really good off course should also have a shot of doubt I'm afraid), let alone JV who makes others worse when you play through him and he's huge liability defensively. From 4 Olympics semi-finalists you won't see a traditional lumberjack playing any more expressed role. It's our coaching problem and basketball culture issues. Even If we don't have Fournier, Bogdanovic or Mills (or whoever of that kind), does it mean that our chances playing through 2 centers are better than our chances playing more balanced basketball with more involving average/solid guys? I think not, and in the latter case we would at least be watching more attractive basketball and solid EL role players as Grigonis, R. Giedraitis, Lekavicius, Ulanovas, Sedekerskis would be better utilized.

Its not JVs fault to be the best player or lets say one of the best. You just have to produce a better back court. If you read my postings about the Turkish NT I always stress that no matter how skilled your front court is the deadly position is always your main decision maker. NTs doesnt have much time to prepare thats why its difficult to utilize a Jokic properly. NTs role distribution must be kept as simple as possible and a team with the better guards is always advantaged.

Sengün and some others as good as they are cant be enough to win something by themselves. For a proper NT you need at least 2 solid play maker. Sengün has a long way to go.

[madmax]

It's not what I said. But it's not cool that you still get upset with my position. You shouldn't care. JV would be perfectly useful as a role player of a winning team, something what Marjanovic was doing in 2017 Eurobasket for Serbia, but if JV is the key, game's over.

JV is objectively speaking our best player for a few years now...if we had someone like Lebron, Ja Morant or other superstar backcourt distributor, then he would be the perfect role player. Right now we simply don't have the choice but to play through him, because no one else does this job better than him. You saw all of the Sabonis bricks and pathetic plays in FIBA for a few years now, so stop that madness about him being the leader and difference maker. Wake up and smell the coffee bud

[Straight forward]

Its not JVs fault to be the best player or lets say one of the best. You just have to produce a better back court. If you read my postings about the Turkish NT I always stress that no matter how skilled your front court is the deadly position is always your main decision maker. NTs doesnt have much time to prepare thats why its difficult to utilize a Jokic properly. NTs role distribution must be kept as simple as possible and a team with the better guards is always advantaged.

Sengün and some others as good as they are cant be enough to win something by themselves. For a proper NT you need at least 2 solid play maker. Sengün has a long way to go.

Off course, this should come even without saying. Lithuania indeed lacked primarily decision maker ever since 2016 (in the stretch of 2013-2016 Kalnietis was an elite PG in FIBA courts).

But at the same time, we barely can call traditional centers world class players. Hakeem was a world class center. He could take the ball into his hands and win the game for you. Jokic can be called a world class player cause he seemed to be able to take the ball into his hands and win games (at least in NBA). But the fact is, with our without PG, traditional guys like Valanciunas (or even Sabonis unless he proves it differently) are not world class FIBA players.

Off course it's not JVs fault. But the fact is that even with elite PG the flaws of JV wouldn't go away. He would remain elite inside scorer and elite rebounder, but the ball and pace stopper offensively and huge liability defensively (specially p'n'r defence and can't switch at all). Again, 2021 Olympics showed that there's no traditional centers playing any bigger role among semifinalists, that's the reality.

Today, essentially, you want your bigs to be mobile defenders in the first place and in the perfect scenario guys who can stretch the floor offensively, leaving the majority of offensive actions for guards and wings who can play with the ball from perimeter. JV (and unfortunately Sabonis as well to a lesser degree) is complete opposite to that. Bad, immobile defender and offensively he narrows and not stretches the floor.

Having 2 nearly ALL STAR level offensive centers is off course not the worst situation and with better backcourt we would probably be looking at some sort of medals in the stretch of 2016-2021, but it's surely off the trends situation as well. That's why I'm eagerly waiting for Tubelis (5) and Sedekerskis (4) as defensive frontline duet backing up offensive guys we have now. Neither of them are good shooters, but nevertheless defence, spacing (both can attack from perimeter and shoot an open jays a bit hopefully) and pace would be at another level. As well as I hope that Kulboka will master his stretch 4 role in upcoming 2 years. This is kinda key areas where we can improve our frontline in upcoming Olympic cycle (which will shorter than usual, just 3 years).

The key off course remains what we're getting from guys as Jokubaitis (and others) as offensive aggressors and creators from perimeter.

[Straight forward]

JV is objectively speaking our best player for a few years now...if we had someone like Lebron, Ja Morant or other superstar backcourt distributor, then he would be the perfect role player. Right now we simply don't have the choice but to play through him, because no one else does this job better than him. You saw all of the Sabonis bricks and pathetic plays in FIBA for a few years now, so stop that madness about him being the leader and difference maker. Wake up and smell the coffee bud

He was the best player, but that's the worst part for us We would be in much better situation if he would be a super role player, next to couple of perimeter leaders. Now, when we force feed him, we face a lot of negative outcomes. And, no, Sabonis thus far hasn't been the leader. And he won't, IMO. But he can surely be much better while playing 5 and facilitating from this position.

[madmax]

He was the best player, but that's the worst part for us We would be in much better situation if he would be a super role player, next to couple of perimeter leaders. Now, when we force feed him, we face a lot of negative outcomes. And, no, Sabonis thus far hasn't been the leader. And he won't, IMO. But he can surely be much better while playing 5 and facilitating from this position.

like what negative outcomes, come again?
He is doing his job pretty much perfectly - shooting extremely high percentage, pretty much every single possession with him ends up with a bucket or an opponents foul. As far as his defense goes, he's actually a much better paint protector than your beloved Sabonis with his T-Rex arms lol. So I ask you again, why is JV all of a sudden a problem for our NT?

[Straight forward]

like what negative outcomes, come again?
He is doing his job pretty much perfectly - shooting extremely high percentage, pretty much every single possession with him ends up with a bucket or an opponents foul. As far as his defense goes, he's actually a much better paint protector than your beloved Sabonis with his T-Rex arms lol. So I ask you again, why is JV all of a sudden a problem for our NT?

You're playing fan boys games. I'm not. It's not JV vs Sabonis if you haven't notice. I mentioned JV's flaws like hundred times already, read my last reply to Toruko. As for Sabonis defence, you right, he's much worse post ISO defender than JV (that's the only area where JV is good defensively). On other hand, Sabonis can step out, rotate and even switch everything to certain extent. JV can't switch everything at all. Generally, both are not good defenders.

[madmax]

You're playing fan boys games. I'm not. It's not JV vs Sabonis if you haven't notice. I mentioned JV's flaws like hundred times already, read my last reply to Toruko. As for Sabonis defence, you right, he's much worse post ISO defender than JV (that's the only area where JV is good defensively). On other hand, Sabonis can step out, rotate and even switch everything to certain extent. JV can't switch everything at all. Generally, both are not good defenders.

I'm not playing any games bud D
Your only argument about JV being unable to switch on the perimeter is like bird asking a fish why can't it fly lol..give us an example of any traditional big who can successfully defend modern super athletic guards? Done searching yet? No need to do it - such player doesn't exist. Even Sabonis can't say in front of any quick guard, so stop with your agenda about him defending the perimeter lol. Gobert doesn't even try to switch on high p'n'r and he's still considered an elite paint defender, because he knows where his bread and butter is. Perimeter is a guards's game and a smart coach knows not to leave a slower traditional center on an island with an athletic guard

[Shawshank]

Any NT would be glad to have him as a role player, not the leader Even way more skilled and flexible bigs as Sabonis and Vucevic can't truly dominate tiny and physical FIBA court (that's where your enthusiasm about Sengun who is really good off course should also have a shot of doubt I'm afraid), let alone JV who makes others worse when you play through him and he's huge liability defensively. From 4 Olympics semi-finalists you won't see a traditional lumberjack playing any more expressed role. It's our coaching problem and basketball culture issues. Even If we don't have Fournier, Bogdanovic or Mills (or whoever of that kind), does it mean that our chances playing through 2 centers are better than our chances playing more balanced basketball with more involving average/solid guys? I think not, and in the latter case we would at least be watching more attractive basketball and solid EL role players as Grigonis, R. Giedraitis, Lekavicius, Ulanovas, Sedekerskis would be better utilized.

If our bigs is way higher quality and gives us better chance to score thats why 2 diffrent coaches went to JV and Domantas instead of guards that have way harder time beating their men 1 vs 1.

Is not our bigs problems,but our weak level guards problem they are loosing direct battles. Coaches is not blind idiots they see which ltu players beats defences better. Why is so hard for you to realise that?

Is not about playing attractive basketball in 2 weeks competions. Is about playing basketball thats give our national best chance to win with what we have today. Not what style of basketball you or me or Antanas likes.

We can hire best coach and take away Valanciunas from team and we still cant play Slovenia type basketball because we dont have tools/players for that.

I saw big and slow C playing in Olympics Balwins,Baynes,Falls,Gasols,Scola,Poirier,Voigtman n that also cant play switch defence.

Silver medal winners played 2 centers in some streaches other powerhouse Serbia also plays 2 centers alot. Diffrence is they can switch to 3 elite guards lineups and Ltu cant because we dont have them is not rocket science

Repeat such suggestion like not to take nba starting level center becauce in theory we could play more *beautifull basketball* is just total stupidy nothing more and there is no coach in his right mind who would even think about not inviting such level big.

[Straight forward]

It's your interpretation that it's the best chance to win this way. The fact is that these chances didn't pan out in 2016-2021, not for a single time. And we did play probably the worst defence against Doncic this summer. No other team was so shitty against him. That's what we surely know. Whenever we would be better or worse playing different style in that stretch it's an open question. However, what I'm nearly 100% certain is that the longer we continue this path the longer way out of this path will be. I really wouldn't want to face the coach who thinks that the best way to win is to play slow, one-dimentional, completely predictable and limited basketball in contemporary perspective. Who cares if JV or Domas are better players than other in ISO situations if other teams will never or almost never allow them to do that? What then? Did you see what happened in the second half of Kaunas final? Slovenia even went small against JV and Domas and packed the paint, and their D was super mobile and we couldn't do anything, we completely stuck. We stuck, because all we do basically since 2013 is either running p'n'r or posting our bigs. That's all. Our guards doesn't know what it means freedom, what it means to penetrate, they afraid to shoot, to improvise, to brake the defence with non set plays.

We built the culture of outdated, already dead form of basketball and the longer we will build into it, the longer (the longest ever already) crisis will continue. We are playing anti basketball, crippled game, archaic game, and we losing it for many tournaments now. We became mediocre NT while basketball is No.1 the country. You can celebrate that and look forward to continue while I'm looking forward for some changes, you know...