Khalid80
Moderator
I've heard Dirk being called such names as Derek, Derk... but Nirk!! That's a new one
Sounds like a character from Star Wars
Edit: And I even ignored how the family name was written
Last edited:
The Best European Player Ever
- Thread starter stuart
- Start date
I've heard Dirk being called such names as Derek, Derk... but Nirk!! That's a new one
Sounds like a character from Star Wars
Edit: And I even ignored how the family name was written
Delibasic
Member
whoa, turkcan, really? how long have you been following basketball? 2 minutes
iskoch
Active member
Of course Mirsad can not be compared to Petrovic, Kukoc, Sabonis so on but in this post bolding just his name and ignoring Navarro and Siskauskas clearly shows what is in your mind.
ANYWAY NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SAYING KUKOC, PETROVIC OR SABONIS BETTER THAN NOWITZKI AND MIRSAD BETTER THAN KUKOC, PETROVIC, SABONIS. They were AVERAGE, YES AVERAGE players in NBA. Nowitzki is the MVP. He's not a role player like the others, he's a FRANCHISE PLAYER who carries Dallas on his shoulders and makes a contender for 11 years.
Just have a look what he did in NBA since 1998...
23.00 points and 8.4 rebounds average per game,
Scored 22.108 NBA points and just 2896 points remaining to reach 25.000th NBA points. (JUST 15 PLAYERS DID IT IN HISTORY.)
10 times selected to All-Star,
In 2007 won the MVP award,
4 times selected to All NBA First Team,
4 times selected to All NBA Second Team,
2 times selected to All NBA Third Team,
To be continued...
As he is still an active player...
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dirk_nowitzki/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirk_Nowitzki
So don't look that guy down, you don't do something different than him.
NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SAYING KUKOC, PETROVIC OR SABONIS BETTER THAN NOWITZKI AND MIRSAD BETTER THAN KUKOC, PETROVIC, SABONIS...
pohani komarac
Active member
not even close.....petrovic, kukoc and sabs greatnes is there with dirk's one, putting jahovic in seme line with those guys is disgrace for basketball
2nd....nba isn't only creteria....it's also what they did in other stages and what they did for basketball
3rd....if you think those were role players you better stop watching basketball
dirk may had better nba carer, and is better than those guys...but what those achived is there with dirk...turckan....right
me, i would always picked young kukoc and sabonis over dirk and pau....i would always take dirk and pau over drazen
2nd....nba isn't only creteria....it's also what they did in other stages and what they did for basketball
3rd....if you think those were role players you better stop watching basketball
dirk may had better nba carer, and is better than those guys...but what those achived is there with dirk...turckan....right
me, i would always picked young kukoc and sabonis over dirk and pau....i would always take dirk and pau over drazen
twilost
Member
i couldnt see properly sabonis with blazers because of my age, but statistics can lie in various ways but not for the franchise and fra.level players. sabonis were not one of them.
Kukoc is an important role player ( 4th after than MJ,Pippen and Rodman), won 6th man award but never selected as an allstar or as an NBA All-1st,2nd or even 3rd as Sabonis did. In his best season his team without MJ and SP became the worst team in their division and he is the best player of that season.
Divac was the best player of Lakers when they were in the worst shape. In Kings best days he was always behind Peja Webber Bibby and even Jackson. but he was an important player of kings. he was selected as an all star in 2001 and his jersey was retired.
and lets take Dirk.
10 times Allstar
6 times w.c. best player of the month
06/07 NBA MVP
4 times NBA 1st, 4 times NBA 2nd, 2 times NBA 3rd in 12 seasons
before him, Dallas wass a garbage team. and during this decade dallas is always a contender and he is the most valuable player of his team. without him dallas evolves a mediocre team. this season dallas was 24-5 before his injury. without him they lost 9 of 11 games.
he was the first European MVP of NBA. he was the first franchise European player of NBA.
Do not compare him with any European player. Sabonis Kukoc Divac and the others Bodiroga,Saras,.. and the other European NBA players
Parker,Gasol,Bargnani etc have never been a franchise player and most
valuable player of their team without any other Allstar level player of an contender team.
Parker without Ginobili and Duncan cannot achieve anything.
Gasol had achieved nothing during Memphis years..
Germany national team without Dirk is a garbage team. Spain or French or Lithuania or Yugoslavian teams can stand without the others, but Germany? Okulaja? Demirel? Femerling? Pesic? they could never selected for the others NT ( maybe Okulaja)
*sorry for bad english
Kukoc is an important role player ( 4th after than MJ,Pippen and Rodman), won 6th man award but never selected as an allstar or as an NBA All-1st,2nd or even 3rd as Sabonis did. In his best season his team without MJ and SP became the worst team in their division and he is the best player of that season.
Divac was the best player of Lakers when they were in the worst shape. In Kings best days he was always behind Peja Webber Bibby and even Jackson. but he was an important player of kings. he was selected as an all star in 2001 and his jersey was retired.
and lets take Dirk.
10 times Allstar
6 times w.c. best player of the month
06/07 NBA MVP
4 times NBA 1st, 4 times NBA 2nd, 2 times NBA 3rd in 12 seasons
before him, Dallas wass a garbage team. and during this decade dallas is always a contender and he is the most valuable player of his team. without him dallas evolves a mediocre team. this season dallas was 24-5 before his injury. without him they lost 9 of 11 games.
he was the first European MVP of NBA. he was the first franchise European player of NBA.
Do not compare him with any European player. Sabonis Kukoc Divac and the others Bodiroga,Saras,.. and the other European NBA players
Parker,Gasol,Bargnani etc have never been a franchise player and most
valuable player of their team without any other Allstar level player of an contender team.
Parker without Ginobili and Duncan cannot achieve anything.
Gasol had achieved nothing during Memphis years..
Germany national team without Dirk is a garbage team. Spain or French or Lithuania or Yugoslavian teams can stand without the others, but Germany? Okulaja? Demirel? Femerling? Pesic? they could never selected for the others NT ( maybe Okulaja)
*sorry for bad english
twilost
Member
I watched Divac's Kings times and the last years of Sabonis and Kukoc and whole career of Dirk's.
and I talked about NBA, Euros and World Championship. Dirk didnt play in Euroleague but it doesnt matter I like Euroleague basketball too much , but NBA is just too ahead of EL. some regular season matches are just bulls..t but not all of them. and EL teams do not have a chance against NBA teams- except 3 or 4 teams-
I only read (and watched from nba greatest) Kukoc and Sabonis's 90s.
I think I can comment about it. Can I? and Statistics(when you get with a successful team) and Achievements are always important.
Beva
Member
twilost, here' Kukoč career achievements:
* 3× NBA Champion (1996, 1997, 1998)
* NBA Sixth Man of the Year (1996)
* Euroleague Final Four MVP (1990–1991, 1993)
* 1990 FIBA World Championship MVP
* Euroscar Player of the Year (1990–1991, 1994, 1996, 1998)
* Mister Europa Player of the Year (1990–1992, 1996)
* 1991 European Championship MVP
Plus, he lead jugoplastika to 3 consecutive euroleague titles, something no one has achieved before or after him...
Dražen Petrović
* 4× Euroscar Award
(1986, 1989, 1992, 1993)
* 2× Mr. Europa Award
(1986, 1993)
* All-NBA Third Team (1993)
Plus he lead Cibona to 2 consecutive euroleague titles... His name is in NBA and FIBA Hall Of Fame...
Arvydas Sabonis
* 1984, 1985, 1988, 1995, 1997, 1999 European Player of the Year
* 1985, 1997 Mr. Europa Player of the Year
* 1985 European Championship MVP
* 1993, 1994 Spanish League Finals MVP
* 1994, 1995 Spanish League MVP
* 1995 Euroleague Final Four MVP
* 1996 NBA All-Rookie First Team
* 2004 Euroleague Regular Season MVP
* 2004 Euroleague Top 16 MVP
* 2004 All-Euroleague First Team
* 2008 35 Greatest Euroleague Players
* 2010 FIBA Hall of Fame Inductee
I mean, you new kids seem to underestimate Euroleague achievements, and for you NBA is only measurement...
Toni Kukoč is my favourite player ever and he had better career overall than Dirk Nowitzky... Why? Cause he has 3 EL titles and 3 NBA titles... No one can take individual awards away from dirk, but basketball is team sport... And winning is all that matters... And Kukoč made his teammates better... He was maybe the most talented European player ever (along with Sabonis, to be honest)... Only Kukoč and Magic played all positions on the court in NBA, from 1 to 5...
Petrović was not even closely that talented, but his work ethics made him a legend...
And Nowitzky is truly amazing, but unless he wins NBA championship, 20 years from now everyone will remember Kobe and Pau winning titles, just like everyone remembers Shaq and Kobe... Everyone remembers that Lakers won 2001. title (for example), and most of NBa fans can name players from that team... But can you name anyone from, let's say Atlanta, or Washington from that season...
(I'm bit exaggerating, Europeans will always remember Dirk, but I'm not so sure for Americans... There's reason everyone know who Bill Russell is, and only hardcore fans have heard of Elgin Baylor...)
* 3× NBA Champion (1996, 1997, 1998)
* NBA Sixth Man of the Year (1996)
* Euroleague Final Four MVP (1990–1991, 1993)
* 1990 FIBA World Championship MVP
* Euroscar Player of the Year (1990–1991, 1994, 1996, 1998)
* Mister Europa Player of the Year (1990–1992, 1996)
* 1991 European Championship MVP
Plus, he lead jugoplastika to 3 consecutive euroleague titles, something no one has achieved before or after him...
Dražen Petrović
* 4× Euroscar Award
(1986, 1989, 1992, 1993)
* 2× Mr. Europa Award
(1986, 1993)
* All-NBA Third Team (1993)
Plus he lead Cibona to 2 consecutive euroleague titles... His name is in NBA and FIBA Hall Of Fame...
Arvydas Sabonis
* 1984, 1985, 1988, 1995, 1997, 1999 European Player of the Year
* 1985, 1997 Mr. Europa Player of the Year
* 1985 European Championship MVP
* 1993, 1994 Spanish League Finals MVP
* 1994, 1995 Spanish League MVP
* 1995 Euroleague Final Four MVP
* 1996 NBA All-Rookie First Team
* 2004 Euroleague Regular Season MVP
* 2004 Euroleague Top 16 MVP
* 2004 All-Euroleague First Team
* 2008 35 Greatest Euroleague Players
* 2010 FIBA Hall of Fame Inductee
I mean, you new kids seem to underestimate Euroleague achievements, and for you NBA is only measurement...
Toni Kukoč is my favourite player ever and he had better career overall than Dirk Nowitzky... Why? Cause he has 3 EL titles and 3 NBA titles... No one can take individual awards away from dirk, but basketball is team sport... And winning is all that matters... And Kukoč made his teammates better... He was maybe the most talented European player ever (along with Sabonis, to be honest)... Only Kukoč and Magic played all positions on the court in NBA, from 1 to 5...
Petrović was not even closely that talented, but his work ethics made him a legend...
And Nowitzky is truly amazing, but unless he wins NBA championship, 20 years from now everyone will remember Kobe and Pau winning titles, just like everyone remembers Shaq and Kobe... Everyone remembers that Lakers won 2001. title (for example), and most of NBa fans can name players from that team... But can you name anyone from, let's say Atlanta, or Washington from that season...
(I'm bit exaggerating, Europeans will always remember Dirk, but I'm not so sure for Americans... There's reason everyone know who Bill Russell is, and only hardcore fans have heard of Elgin Baylor...)
bukefalos
Member
kukoc won the nba titles with legend chicago.
i respect him, he is one of the most talented player i have ever seen
but this is dirk mate
2007 NBA Most Valuable Player
and here is his career achievements,
10x NBA All Star
4x All Nba 1.team
4x All NBA 2. team
2x All NBA 3. team
2002 Fiba world championship MVP
2005 Eurobasket MVP (with german NT team )
5x Euroscar Award Winner
i respect him, he is one of the most talented player i have ever seen
but this is dirk mate
2007 NBA Most Valuable Player
and here is his career achievements,
10x NBA All Star
4x All Nba 1.team
4x All NBA 2. team
2x All NBA 3. team
2002 Fiba world championship MVP
2005 Eurobasket MVP (with german NT team
)5x Euroscar Award Winner
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Dogukan Zorbey
Member
Most Valuable player
Most Valuable player
Everyone says, NBA can not be criteria. New kids dosent understand old time of the EL. Common guys EL level far more behind then NBA level.
Recently who is the MVP is Eurolegue? Navarro , Diamantidis ?
I guess both of them can not place at roaster even Cleveland Cavaliers.
Who knows Diamantidis from USA?
NBA should be number 1 criteria making decision for Best European player.
If you can play at NBA and get good contract there are chance to making money over 70-80 million usd 5-6 year contract. EL offer just couple of million usd per year.
Please not be emotional and be optimistic.
Most Valuable player
Everyone says, NBA can not be criteria.
New kids dosent understand old time of the EL. Common guys EL level far more behind then NBA level. Recently who is the MVP is Eurolegue? Navarro , Diamantidis ?
I guess both of them can not place at roaster even Cleveland Cavaliers.
Who knows Diamantidis from USA?
NBA should be number 1 criteria making decision for Best European player.
If you can play at NBA and get good contract there are chance to making money over 70-80 million usd 5-6 year contract. EL offer just couple of million usd per year.
Please not be emotional and be optimistic.
Khalid80
Moderator
As Beva mentioned Toni Kukoc is such an amazing player since he has managed to excel in both leagues (Euroleague and the NBA)....
Not all star players who are in the NBA can excel if playing in the Euroleague and the opposite is also applicable and this is why Kukoc is such a unique player.
Not taking anything away from Nowitzki since i'm a huge fan of his and the NBA but i'm trying to look at this from an overall perspective.
Not all star players who are in the NBA can excel if playing in the Euroleague and the opposite is also applicable and this is why Kukoc is such a unique player.
Not taking anything away from Nowitzki since i'm a huge fan of his and the NBA but i'm trying to look at this from an overall perspective.
Markoishvili
Active member
I love Dirk as much as the next guy, and he has the best NBA statistics of any european player, but still when talking about greatest in history you cannot overlook the fact that guy has 0 TITLES in his career. I mean, he was not even champion of his own country. He never lifted any trophy. Nothing at all.
That`s like saying LeBron James is best NBA player in history, when he hasn`t won anything yet.
That`s like saying LeBron James is best NBA player in history, when he hasn`t won anything yet.
pohani komarac
Active member
Everyone says, NBA can not be criteria.
Recently who is the MVP is Eurolegue? Navarro , Diamantidis ?
I guess both of them can not place at roaster even Cleveland Cavaliers.
Who knows Diamantidis from USA? NBA should be number 1 criteria making decision for Best European player.
If you can play at NBA and get good contract there are chance to making money over 70-80 million usd 5-6 year contract. EL offer just couple of million usd per year.
Please not be emotional and be optimistic.
exactley my friend....today almost all best players play in NBA, but thanks to Drazen, Divac, Kukoc, Sabonis, Marculions and so on. Those guys opend the dors for europians in NBA, just like Cosic did for NCAA
And there is big difrence of playing in euroleague in 80is and 90is where Drazen had to beat Sabonis, Gallis, Oscar and so on, than today where those best mostley ends in NBA....and even greater difrence is to play in i NBA 90is for europians that today. Those were days when evreybody tought that somebady from europe who didn't pass American training proces can't play in NBA....Rick Adelman todays says his big mistake was he didn't trust in Drazen, just because he comes from europe...now that opinion is gone because of those guys
Dirk is probabley guy who individually made most, but guys like Drazen, Toni, Sabs have done so much more than stats...and Gasol to
And yes Drazen was franchise player of Nets, he took tham to playoff, and in his last season they were 1-11 without him
p.s. navarro was good in nba, but decided to come back to europe after first season
Beva
Member
Everyone says, NBA can not be criteria.
Recently who is the MVP is Eurolegue? Navarro , Diamantidis ?
I guess both of them can not place at roaster even Cleveland Cavaliers.
Who knows Diamantidis from USA?
NBA should be number 1 criteria making decision for Best European player.
If you can play at NBA and get good contract there are chance to making money over 70-80 million usd 5-6 year contract. EL offer just couple of million usd per year.
Please not be emotional and be optimistic.
Of course NBA is one criteria, but cannot be the only one... But even if it is, look at this...
1995-96 Chicago Bulls 72 - 10 (.878)
This is the best NBA team ever...
Kukoč from 95/96 season:
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
95-96 CHI 81 20 26.0 .490 .403 .772 1.4 2.6 4.0 3.5 0.8 0.4 1.41 1.90 13.1
You think the guy who had these kind of stats in the best team ever couldn't be a leader of average playoff team? Everyone's underestimating Kukoč, like it was easy playing with Jordan and Pippen... But Jordan and Pippen were first attacking options for Bulls, and averaging 13 points in a team like that is far harder than averaging 20 when you are the first option in attack... Plus, who can say that Bulls would be so dominant without Kukoč? He was the third player in that team...
I mean, I cheer for all European players in NBA, if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't follow NBA at all... And Dirk has achieved great things individually, but he needs to win title in order to be the best... I would like him to do it, and even then we can't say he's 'the best' European player ever...
And you say Euroleague is not a criteria... Well think about what kind of a league NBA was back than when Chamberlain scored 100 in a game... But that doesn't stop Americans to think of Chamberlain and Russell as ones of the best players ever... You need to put things in perspective...
Kwijibo
Active member
Radivoj Korać
I would just say one European competition was named after him.
The Spanish King (In football, football indoor, handball, basketball & hockey) Ffffffffffffuuck yeah
iskoch
Active member
Robert Horry has 7 rings and Malone doesn't have any.
So Horry better than Malone then?
Prove me that he's not by using that mind which you have.
Nowitzki is one of the greatest power forwards in NBA history.
And people will call his name with Malone, Barkley, Duncan, Garnett 10 years later.
Because what he did during his career makes him a legend like the others.
If basketball was a movie, Nowitzki's 2007 MVP award would be "the best actor in a leading role."
What about Kukoc?
Could he get an oscar of "the best actor in a supporting role?"
No, because it was Pippen's award.
Kukoc was a role player, he was a 6th man, nothing more...
You may say being a role player in the best movie of all the times more valuable than getting oscar with another film.
Possible, but if only he has another oscar with another movie.
But Kukoc's Chicago was the worst team in NBA...
Look here, NBA's all time scoring leaders.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_all_time_leaders/AllTimeLeadersPTSQuery.html?topic=4&stat=1
Nowitzki now 24th with 22.130 points.
If he won't get a serious injury, probably can easily pass 25.000 points.
Do you know how many players did it since 1946?
Just 15...
And you claim that Kukoc is the best European player.
No, Mirsad Türkcan is the best, f..k the rest...