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SBP Long-term national team pool (vol. X)

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but it did end? they are still getting a max contract???

Their careers did not end, I'll give you that. They are still getting big contracts. But in the end, it still does not give you an accurate picture of what could happen.

Again, just because it has never happened, doesn't mean it CANNOT and WILL NOT happen. I was talking of potential risks, risks which are all too real.

I rest my case, and refuse to argue any further with people who just cannot accept that "risk of injury" is a real, tangible factor in athletes' decisions.
 
of course there's a risk for injuries even by not playing basketball. Even if you are inside in the toilet there is a chance you will get slipped from a wet floor.

You can not dictate the future and we all know that.


but my point is, the risk of having a career ending injury while playing for NT is not a valid reason not to lend a player for national team.


anyhow, as most of you keep on saying that PBA has the best talents, but for me it's a big "NO".. i can only count 4 to 6 players because some of the "best" are already not on their prime anymore.

the reason why "PBA" are the best because they are the ones who you always watched on your tube.
 
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I rest my case, and refuse to argue any further with people who just cannot accept that "risk of injury" is a real, tangible factor in athletes' decisions.

bro, this should have been the case a couple of pages back.

this type of discussion just go round and round in circles.

for sure, the issues raised here will be raised again some other time and we would see the same arguments, albeit in different forms.

the good thing here is that we are agreeing to disagree.
 
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The (under)development of Philippine basketball
by Christian Soler
642 Views | 4 Comments
DEVELOPMENT is defined by the Merriam Webster dictionary as 1) “the act, process, or result of developing”; 2) the state of being developed”; and 3) “a developed tract of land”. To serve the purpose of talking about the state of Philippine basketball, the first two definitions will suffice.

In 2008, the Samahang Basketball ng Pilipinas embarked on an ambitious developmental project involving the finest collegiate basketball players in the country. The FIBA-recognized organization dubbed the team Smart Gilas, which was built around a framework of intensive training and exposure to foreign opposition, aimed at rekindling the glory days of Philippine hoops. Its ultimate objective is and remains qualification for the 2012 London Olympics.

Two years have passed, yet the topic is worth discussing since flag and country, and the future of the national pastime are at stake. About a year ago, I expressed my views on the lofty project. I don’t intend to repeat myself here, although, to set the record straight, I still hold the same views, particularly on paying student-athletes, and nothing has changed.

Smart Gilas is often referred to as the Philippine Developmental Team, particularly when that all-PBA, Yeng Guiao-mentored Powerade Team Pilipinas was still around. “Development”, or “developmental”, given the definitions above, connotes the act or process of developing. If recent form is used to measure the act or process of developing, the squad’s 7th place finish in the 2010 FIBA-Asia Champions Cup in Doha, Qatar isn’t the biggest step forward. Sure, there were injuries to key players like JV Casio that accompanied that seemingly eternal search for a foreign big man. But results are the most concrete measure of success or the lack thereof, and Doha pales in comparison to the team’s showing in the Jakarta edition last year.

That argument isn’t novel or unique, and perhaps has already been mentioned somewhere, somehow. So, while using the context of development, I’ll move on and throw the entire paradigm of “development” into question. Two points.

First, development presupposes a something that needs to be developed. In this instance, it is Philippine basketball. However, is the Smart Gilas model the most efficient to attain the second definition of development, “the state of being developed”? The term “developmental” was coined presumably to refer to the growth the collegiate players were projected to enjoy under the program. Gradually, however, Smart Gilas has been luring star Fil-Americans such as Marcio Lassiter and Chris Lutz. Also, it has conspicuously acted like a “PBA team not competing in the PBA,” trading for Japeth Aguilar, and taking aim at hotshots Ryan Reyes and Kelly Williams.

These moves clearly betray the team’s initial thrust of developing young talent. In effect, Smart Gilas isn’t any more different from past national teams, which often mixed pros and amateurs (technically, none of the Gilas players are amateurs since they all get paid). There is nothing wrong with bolstering the national squad with talent, but please, let’s drop the pretense of harnessing young talent. Trading for more established talents and attracting near-finished products in the form of former NCAA Division I players, and calling it development, is a lie. This was not the original plan, was it?

And while we’re at it, it seems that the search for that elusive, Yamashita’s Treasure-like candidate for naturalization is taking precedence over the entire developmental program. Today, the rhetoric is loud and clear: “We can’t win without a foreign big man”. Not that I am against naturalizations in general, but if this attitude persists, then why did God-knows-who have to go through all the trouble tapping the likes of Rabeh Al-Hussaini, Jason Ballesteros, Aldrech Ramos, Greg Slaughter and Magi Sison? If they’re not good enough outside the NCAA and UAAP, why bother getting them in the first place? Oh, I know…to develop them. Sure, but apparently, development can’t wait for them. Why were we taken for a ride and led to believe that a premium was to be put on training our big men, only to end up looking for an instant contributor thousands of miles away?

There’s nothing wrong with naturalizing foreigners willing to don the blue, red and yellow. But something’s not right if it’s done under the guise of development. It’s not even wrong, it’s deplorable, and I can only pity Al-Hussaini and co.

By the looks of things, development has taken on a new and different meaning. It’s tantamount to winning in the here and now. Apparently, we’re taking the elevator and not the stairs, as was originally planned.

This paves the way for the second point. This sense of impatience throws into question the whole framework of development that our basketball messiahs have put in place. To expect Smart Gilas, and even the brilliant Rajko Toroman, to put the Philippines back on the cage map by reaching the Promised Land that is London is the very opposite of what development truly means. Our friendly Merriam Webster definition spoke of a “process” and “state of being,” one that is not rushed nor unrealistically ventured into. A thinking basketball fan or spectator cannot be made to believe otherwise. All s/he has to do is ask why the hell pros are being traded for.

Unlike all other rants about the state of Philippine hoops, this version ends with a proposal. We have to be fair to Toroman and Chris Tiu and friends. After all, they’re the ones tasked to execute this idea of development (and it’s not their fault), este, winning immediately. First, let’s get off this road to basketball perdition and not expect the universe from this group. They’re a talented bunch, no doubt, but have been pressured to aim for something huge in such a short span of time. The working premise was wrong from the very beginning, and is being abused and molested along the way.

Instead, let’s right the ship and urge our basketball lords to plot a different and more realistic course. The 2010 FilOil Flying V Tanduay First Five tiff has paid witness to the gradual birth of a promising crop of young talent known as the Nokia RP Under-18 squad. The likes of Russel Escoto, Von Pessumal and Kiefer Ravena have wowed both the viewing public and the opposition, beating the likes of NCAA champion San Sebastian in the process. The Under-13 outfit, coached by University of the East assistant Mark Herrera, is also doing well in the juniors division of the same event. Can the country’s efforts at developing talent be directed towards them, and all the other youngsters who want to play the game we all love? Could the primary goal be redirected to Rio 2016, with a younger generation of players benefiting from coaching, training and exposure, and with Smart Gilas blazing the trail for them? Such efforts would foster a more genuine developmental approach, sans the stop-gaps and short-term “remedies” that have proven so futile in the first place. Plus, we won’t need to lie to ourselves anymore.

This is what real development is all about. Hopefully, the right people will be up to the task.
 
From Jim Saret's FB page:

Coach Toroman has thought the competition through, and is not afraid of being ridiculed for thinking outside the box. His formula to win in Asia is to take advantage of the Filipinos speed and IQ for the game of basketball. He has seen the frenetic pace of the college wars and some semblance of it even in the pro league before embarking on building a template for the future RP team.

He probably noticed something that local coaches have often overlooked or simply ignored in the past, and that is to harness the Filipino brand of play which is grounded on the perimeter players using their speed, guile and distinct basketball skills. We have not seen the last of the “Small Ball” system being implemented by Toroman, in fact we will see more of it in a variety of configurations as he aims to return the country to its once elite status in Asia.

Just from watching Powerade, I would guess this is the same brand of play that Guiao sought to take advantage of.

I wish the article had also discussed plans for defense.

Well if this article were accurate, good thing is we cease to be a poor copy of euro-style basketball and win (I hope) with a system that maximizes the use of our own basketball style learned since childhood. I think it is this style, peppered with gulang learned and passed down for nearly a hundred years, that separates us from the other Asian countries. We just need to update it and use it properly.
 
Toroman hot on Douthit as Gilas import
By Joey Vilar (The Philippine Star) Updated June 03, 2010 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - Serbian Smart Gilas coach Rajko Toroman yesterday ruled out any possibility of trying out former import CJ Giles or ex-NBA player Olumide Oyedeji and instead reiterated his desire to test American Marcus Douthit as the team’s candidate for naturalization.

“No way,” said Toroman, referring to earlier reports that Giles and Oyedeji would be trying out with the team.

Although the return of Giles, the 6-11 former Los Angeles Lakers draftee who saw action with Team RP last year, looks tempting, Toroman said he is not the player they are looking for.

“Although he looks impressive, he’s not the player we need,” said Toroman referring to Giles, who played for Smart Gilas for a year before he was released.

“What we need is someone who is stronger inside, can defend, get us more rebounds and can run the floor,” he added.

Oyedeji, a 6-10 Nigerian who played for the Seattle Supersonics, now the Oklahoma Thunder, from 2000-2002, has the materials to make it to the team but Smart Gilas may encounter problems with his eligibility.

Oyedeji suited up for ASU of Jordan and under FIBA rules, players who saw action for one national team in any FIBA-sanctioned event is no longer allowed to play for another squad.

That makes Douthit the most logical pick as the team’s reinforcement as Smart Gilas primes itself up for the Asian Games this November and the 2011 FIBA-Asia Championship, which serves as a qualifier for the 2012 London Olympics.

“We’re hoping he could be the one,” said Toroman.

The Smart Gilas squad is composed of the country’s collegiate players headed by skipper Chris Tiu, co-captain Mark Barroca and JV Casio, talented Filipino-Americans Marcio Lassiter, Chris Lutz and Chris Banchero and lone pro Kelly Williams.
 
Their careers did not end, I'll give you that. They are still getting big contracts. But in the end, it still does not give you an accurate picture of what could happen.

Again, just because it has never happened, doesn't mean it CANNOT and WILL NOT happen. I was talking of potential risks, risks which are all too real.

I rest my case, and refuse to argue any further with people who just cannot accept that "risk of injury" is a real, tangible factor in athletes' decisions.

There is definitely the risk of injury...other people are more willing to take that risk than others....if you look in boxing...Pacquiao is one of those few people who would take tremendous risk in his life and career everytime he steps into the ring facing extremely dangerous opponents...his prime motivation is honour and glory.
 
of course there's a risk for injuries even by not playing basketball. Even if you are inside in the toilet there is a chance you will get slipped from a wet floor.

You can not dictate the future and we all know that.


but my point is, the risk of having a career ending injury while playing for NT is not a valid reason not to lend a player for national team.


anyhow, as most of you keep on saying that PBA has the best talents, but for me it's a big "NO".. i can only count 4 to 6 players because some of the "best" are already not on their prime anymore.

the reason why "PBA" are the best because they are the ones who you always watched on your tube.

The willingness of corporation to support that cause of the Philippine National team varies from one company to another...this goes the same for their CEO....I would say the Manny P, considering his many responsibilities as CEO of at least 3 big corporations not only in the Philippines but in Hong Kong, is one of those special individuals who would sacrifice his time and money to support the Philippine National team......The question is if Manny P can do it, why cant the other CEOs follow also.....i think the answer is not everyone is as good as Manny P in managing their respective corporations.
 
I'm talking of the risks. Just because a career-ending injury has never happened while on NT duty, it doesn't mean that it CANNOT and WILL NEVER happen. 'Sus. Let's not nitpick here.

Seigle took a couple of years to recover fully, and all we see of him now is a mere shadow of his former dominant self. Caguioa has been sidelined by various injuries since.

Sir I understand there are risks. But if they will continue to have this mentality of not wanting to play basketball for the national team because they might get career ending injuries, then no national players from other countries would be playing as well. It's really just as simple as that. It's not like these foreigners are not owned by business entities as well. It's not like they are not "assets" as well. It's not like they are being compensated to play for their countries. That point is moot.

At the end of the day, yes it is their decision to play or not and it should be respected. It's their lives. I'm not angry at Rico for choosing the PBA. He has a family to feed. There's at least equal money and less risks because they wouldn't be playing as hard anyway in the PBA unless it's playoff time. The only thing I don't like is that most of our players don't try to max themselves out anymore. They're just content with what they do and don't try to improve anymore. I have really not seen a substantial jump from any PBA player today. The MVP James Yap of 2006 is better than today's James Yap (who shoots 38% from the field more often than not. 38%! from your mvp!). I don't know. The PBA is great to watch (if the top teams are playing), but I don't get that "thrill" I got from it before. The "magic" of the game is gone.
 
Sir I understand there are risks. But if they will continue to have this mentality of not wanting to play basketball for the national team because they might get career ending injuries, then no national players from other countries would be playing as well. It's really just as simple as that. It's not like these foreigners are not owned by business entities as well. It's not like they are not "assets" as well. It's not like they are being compensated to play for their countries. That point is moot.

At the end of the day, yes it is their decision to play or not and it should be respected. It's their lives. I'm not angry at Rico for choosing the PBA. He has a family to feed. There's at least equal money and less risks because they wouldn't be playing as hard anyway in the PBA unless it's playoff time. The only thing I don't like is that most of our players don't try to max themselves out anymore. They're just content with what they do and don't try to improve anymore. I have really not seen a substantial jump from any PBA player today. The MVP James Yap of 2006 is better than today's James Yap (who shoots 38% from the field more often than not. 38%! from your mvp!). I don't know. The PBA is great to watch (if the top teams are playing), but I don't get that "thrill" I got from it before. The "magic" of the game is gone.

I tend to agree on this....everytime you play a higher level...a player takes more risk...everytime you play stiffer competition...a player takes more risk.....it is easy to be complacent and play leisurely since they are getting salary anyway...in fact, to take less risk, they could run and jump less to avoid risk of injury...the only problem is if there are other players who would be taking more risk by playing more agressively and thus losing their place in the team...but as long as all the players are avoiding risk of injury and playing leisurely...then there shouldnt be any problem......the only problem is that the level of playing becomes stagnant and maybe becomes worst which could be happening to PBA...since they dont have exposure to higher level of playing which they can get from playing in international competition.
 
I tend to agree on this....everytime you play a higher level...a player takes more risk...everytime you play stiffer competition...a player takes more risk.....it is easy to be complacent and play leisurely since they are getting salary anyway...in fact, to take less risk, they could run and jump less to avoid risk of injury...the only problem is if there are other players who would be taking more risk by playing more agressively and thus losing their place in the team...but as long as all the players are avoiding risk of injury and playing leisurely...then there shouldnt be any problem......the only problem is that the level of playing becomes stagnant and maybe becomes worst which could be happening to PBA...since they dont have exposure to higher level of playing which they can get from playing in international competition.

plus we have things called career-ending insurance for athletes.I'm pretty sure that MVP would provide the players insurances just like the ballclubs in the PBA.
 
plus we have things called career-ending insurance for athletes.I'm pretty sure that MVP would provide the players insurances just like the ballclubs in the PBA.

Basketball is a physical sport....any player who is always concerned about the risk of injury has no place in a national team...they will not chase after loose ball, not stand their ground when a big player is charging them, and not rebound against big tough opponents because they would always think about the consequence if they get injured.....it is better for these players to find another line of work if they are not willing to sacrifice their body.
 
Basketball is a physical sport....any player who is always concerned about the risk of injury has no place in a national team...they will not chase after loose ball, not stand their ground when a big player is charging them, and not rebound against big tough opponents because they would always think about the consequence if they get injured.....it is better for these players to find another line of work if they are not willing to sacrifice their body.

hehe true..
 
ur opinions are noted and ur views are appreciated.

but please refrain from general statements about the reasons of other people.

is there anything wrong from what i said? hey that's the fact,I believe that there are still some good and "best" players outside PBA.
 
is there anything wrong from what i said? hey that's the fact,I believe that there are still some good and "best" players outside PBA.

yes you are probably correct. and i agree that there are some non-pba players now that are good enough to be starters and key players for pba teams.

this is the one that i disagree with:

the reason why "PBA" are the best because they are the ones who you always watched on your tube.
 
There is definitely the risk of injury...other people are more willing to take that risk than others....if you look in boxing...Pacquiao is one of those few people who would take tremendous risk in his life and career everytime he steps into the ring facing extremely dangerous opponents...his prime motivation is honour and glory.

if you're being paid a billion pesos per fight, any risk is worth it.

for pba players, playing in the NT for free... it's a different story.
 
why are just referring to pba players? it should be, for some basketball players ...

nah, i still believe that most gilas players won't be playing for the NT right now if not for the allowances given by mvp.

maybe tiu... he doesn't need that.
 
nah, i still believe that most gilas players won't be playing for the NT right now if not for the allowances given by mvp.

maybe tiu... he doesn't need that.

i agree.

in ur previous post, u just said pba players...so its pba, gilas, pbl, college etc...hence, basketball players in general.
 
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