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Quarterfinal 2: Barcelona - Panathinaikos

  • Thread starter Thread starter Levenspiel2
  • Start date Start date

Quarterfinal 2: Barcelona - Panathinaikos


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No you can't.That was the only call that went against Pao in the whole game.

Good to hear Luigi Lamonica will be in charge at Thursday.Finally a well respected,experienced,fair referee.Justice is coming.

How kind of you to provide forum signatures material.
 
Lamonica? How come? He was one of the referees in the game between Valencia-Real yesterday, and it's against Euroleague's regulations to do it again on Thursday.

Mr Bertomeu has to give some explanations concerning this matter...
 
ricky had 6 3pointers in 18 games in the euroleague prior to last night and 13 in 27 games in the acb. Last night he hit 4/5.

PAO had 37% 3ps in regular season, 33% in top16 and in the 3 games with Barcelona he had 53% , 53% and 44% yesterday...go figure!

Despite all the rest (unexpected good performances, refs, etc) , this is the most important factor IMHO.

I know some are gonna bash me for this because they think it degrades PAO's effort, but it doesn't. It's just what closed the gap from the predictions to the result we see today... Yes PAO did not magically become the superb team that was hiding all year.....sorry no... They are better than expected but that would not be enough. THAT along with the unreal 3s percentage IS enough (at least for the 2-1 score. Let's see what happens when(IF) 3s stop falling in...)
 
poor Barca
poor Navarro
anyway yesterday we had some oscar events in a cosmic enviroment
i was so excited:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad3J9GrDnYw
and the event
WOW GORGEOUS:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZSJumZuq0s&feature=player_embedded
The movie for anyone that wants to download it is by the name ELECTROSHOCK:D

Without having seen the videos I suppose they r about the technical foul he received 4 flopping. I saw Nicholas extending his arm a little, he did touch Navarro, but by no means was this a foul. Navarro though made it so impressive that he really deserved a technical foul. However, I wouldn't give him an oscar 4 this. He has offered 2 the world of arts marvelous performances more deserving of an award.:D
 
PAO had 37% 3ps in regular season, 33% in top16 and in the 3 games with Barcelona he had 53% , 53% and 44% yesterday...go figure!

Despite all the rest (unexpected good performances, refs, etc) , this is the most important factor IMHO.

I know some are gonna bash me for this because they think it degrades PAO's effort, but it doesn't. It's just what closed the gap from the predictions to the result we see today... Yes PAO did not magically become the superb team that was hiding all year.....sorry no... They are better than expected but that would not be enough. THAT along with the unreal 3s percentage IS enough (at least for the 2-1 score. Let's see what happens when(IF) 3s stop falling in...)

No bashing whatsoever, that is a noteworthy observation.:cool:

PAO has shot so far 7/13 (53%), 9/17 (53%) and 7/16 (44%), just like you said, in other words 23/46 (50%). On the other hand Barca had 10/21 (48%), 7/25 (28%) and 11/25 (44%), meaning exactly 28/71 (39.4%). As you can see the difference is not that remarkable if you take into consideration the fact that PAO has scored significantly less from downtown than Barca. Especially if you keep in mind that the last clash has been won by Barca on that department, yet they did lose the game anyway, trailing for like 39 minutes.

Besides that, Barca has a 33.4 percentage in this year's Euroleague, which basically means that they are shooting the ball pretty well in the series. Finally, PAO has shooters that are definitely comparable to the ones of Barca, I believe we agree on that. To make a long story short, after comparing the frequency of three point shots taken by two teams with similar percentages, you easily notice a larger Barcelona dependance on those shots than PAO's. Hence if I were a PAO fan I would prefer to see a game where both teams are not shooting well the three-pointer rather than the opposite.

I mean sure, if Barca drops 15/30 and PAO has like 5/19 I guess no questions will be asked. But that would be a rather lucky day for the Blaugrana in OAKA, wouldn'it?
 
No bashing whatsoever, that is a noteworthy observation.:cool:

PAO has shot so far 7/13 (53%), 9/17 (53%) and 7/16 (44%), just like you said, in other words 23/46 (50%). On the other hand Barca had 10/21 (48%), 7/25 (28%) and 11/25 (44%), meaning exactly 28/71 (39.4%). As you can see the difference is not that remarkable if you take into consideration the fact that PAO has scored significantly less from downtown than Barca. Especially if you keep in mind that the last clash has been won by Barca on that department, yet they did lose the game anyway, trailing for like 39 minutes.

Besides that, Barca has a 33.4 percentage in this year's Euroleague, which basically means that they are shooting the ball pretty well in the series. Finally, PAO has shooters that are definitely comparable to the ones of Barca, I believe we agree on that. To make a long story short, after comparing the frequency of three point shots taken by two teams with similar percentages, you easily notice a larger Barcelona dependance on those shots than PAO's. Hence if I were a PAO fan I would prefer to see a game where both teams are not shooting well the three-pointer rather than the opposite.

I mean sure, if Barca drops 15/30 and PAO has like 5/19 I guess no questions will be asked. But that would be a rather lucky day for the Blaugrana in OAKA, wouldn'it?

That's one side of the story. The other one is this: Both teams have shot better from 6.75, but Barcelona have raised their percentages by 6% while Panathinaikos have done it by about 14%. That's more than double, so the team that has benefited the most by this is obviously PAO. And while the difference in pct is ~11% for Panathinaikos, the difference in made shots is just 5 for Barcelona.
So indeed, Panathinaikos depends less on long range shots than Barcelona, but they r the team that gained more from these possessions. I would say that they r not the reasons 4 PAO being able 2 play better than Barcelona. They r a reason though why PAO is performing better than in the rest of the season, because this makes them feel more comfortable in their game.
Barcelona probably can't win game 4 because of abnormal 3p percentages. They didn't manage 2 win game 3 while shooting over 50% until the 35th minute or so. They have 2 do something different because they have been outplayed overall in the series. Unless something like what u said happens; Barca shoots 14/25 and PAO shoots 4/16 from beyond the arc. But again, if this really happens, why shouldn't the opposite happen in game 5?
 
That's one side of the story. The other one is this: Both teams have shot better from 6.75, but Barcelona have raised their percentages by 6% while Panathinaikos have done it by about 14%. That's more than double, so the team that has benefited the most by this is obviously PAO. And while the difference in pct is ~11% for Panathinaikos, the difference in made shots is just 5 for Barcelona.
So indeed, Panathinaikos depends less on long range shots than Barcelona, but they r the team that gained more from these possessions. I would say that they r not the reasons 4 PAO being able 2 play better than Barcelona. They r a reason though why PAO is performing better than in the rest of the season, because this makes them feel more comfortable in their game.
Barcelona probably can't win game 4 because of abnormal 3p percentages. They didn't manage 2 win game 3 while shooting over 50% until the 35th minute or so. They have 2 do something different because they have been outplayed overall in the series. Unless something like what u said happens; Barca shoots 14/25 and PAO shoots 4/16 from beyond the arc. But again, if this really happens, why shouldn't the opposite happen in game 5?

Both teams really improved form the 3 point range . Barca by 6 percent, PAO by the double.
Thats logical if your consider the fact that we re in the play offs and teams are way more focused.

Now it s true that PAO improved more than barca but for me that can be explained by the fact that PAO doesnt rely so much on the 3points shots. PAO has the advantage in the post in nearly every single position. Either with DD, either with sato , either with batist PAO goes in the post when the goings get tough.
We saw that at the beginning of the fourth where DD gained 3 straight fouls abusing rubio and sada in the post.

On the other side , barca doesn t have this luxury. When the goings get tough, they start chucking 3s , when most of them are BAD shots. Not all of them but a quite important amount, thus resulting to a percentage of 40 percent from the arc.

Barca has to stop talking those extra 5-7 bad 3point shot attempts and you ll see that they will average nearly 50 percent like PAO.

PAO has managed to limit the three points attempts to his great shooters. In the first game only 3 players shot the 3 ( and calathes only shot once), in the second and third five players -again with tsartsaris and calathis taking one in each game.
PAO shoots only whith a great shooter -DD, nicholas, fotsis, sato and and un der great circumstances , so his percentage is actually quite normal.

On the other hand , in each game , 8 different players shoot 3s for barca, even players that are terrible shooters like rubio, sada , thus resulting to a still very good 40 percent.

I m sorry but I dont see anything extraordinary here. PAO shoots under great circumstances only and ONLY with great shooters.
Barca shoots under ALL circumstances with a combination of great but also some mediocre shooters.
Nothing surprising consequently in those statistics.
 
That's one side of the story. The other one is this: Both teams have shot better from 6.75, but Barcelona have raised their percentages by 6% while Panathinaikos have done it by about 14%. That's more than double, so the team that has benefited the most by this is obviously PAO. And while the difference in pct is ~11% for Panathinaikos, the difference in made shots is just 5 for Barcelona.
So indeed, Panathinaikos depends less on long range shots than Barcelona, but they r the team that gained more from these possessions. I would say that they r not the reasons 4 PAO being able 2 play better than Barcelona. They r a reason though why PAO is performing better than in the rest of the season, because this makes them feel more comfortable in their game.
Barcelona probably can't win game 4 because of abnormal 3p percentages. They didn't manage 2 win game 3 while shooting over 50% until the 35th minute or so. They have 2 do something different because they have been outplayed overall in the series. Unless something like what u said happens; Barca shoots 14/25 and PAO shoots 4/16 from beyond the arc. But again, if this really happens, why shouldn't the opposite happen in game 5?

I did not mean to sound like someone who asserts that 23/46 is worse than 28/71. I just felt like nuancing it by saying that since one team is shooting 50% and the other around 40, it is kind of better for the one shooting worse (still having a very decent percentage though) to at least make a more important amount of shots. 5 extra three pointers corresponds to 15 more points, meaning 5 more a game, which is definitely an advantage in series that are so close. Sure, making 5 more when you shoot 25 more is an issue, but the more you shoot the more you lose too, that being a rule with few exceptions against an organized defense.
Barca's philosophy is in accordance with that risk, and I'm willing to bet that if you had offered them the amount they've shot and the percentages they have so far before the series, they would have taken it no questions asked. The fact that PAO is a more balanced team is what ruined their plans, and I certainly agree that PAO benefits more from the extra possessions. I am unable however to name one team that has demonstrated a better ability than PAO to handle those extra opportunities against Barca since last year in a Euroleague game.
And yes, of course PAO is feeling more comfortable now shooting 50%, but isnt's saying that kind of redundant?:cool: Especially when you know that PAO's shots were almost all a consequence of his very elaborated offensive plan relying on favorable match-ups, either it's in the post or not, and better spacing.(which Barca lacks for obvious reasons when Sada or Rubio are in the game, often enough that is...)

Anyway, I know we agree that being more dependant on three-point shooting is a disadvantage, unless your opponent really sucks in that domain, which PAO does not neither in the series nor in general, far from that actually. I have nothing to add to your last paragraph.;)
 
The thing is, PAO's great percentage in 3ps resulted in an important win in a difficult situation (refs against PAO etc). I am talking about the second game in Spain, where PAO had the 53% for a second time in a row, but Barca dropped to 28% (7/25), so you can say, PAO cashed out on their "luck". If he hadn't won that game he would be far from favourites right now.

Barca couldn't cash out on their 50% yesterday like PAO couldn't cash out on their 53% in the first Spain game...
But if tomorow we have a statistical balancing and we see a reverse of the second game in Spain, do you think PAO can win? I find it doubtfull...

All 3 home games have seen the home team favoured by the refs and the crowd sure helps too to some extent. Under these circumstances and considering both teams almost equal, you need something "more" to steal a road win. A good candidate is the 3p shooting.
All I'm saying is PAO had that in both games in Spain and cashed out in the second one....and that's what makes all the difference in the world right now in this match-up. Let's see if barca will have it tomorow...
 
PAO had 37% 3ps in regular season, 33% in top16 and in the 3 games with Barcelona he had 53% , 53% and 44% yesterday...go figure!

Despite all the rest (unexpected good performances, refs, etc) , this is the most important factor IMHO.

I know some are gonna bash me for this because they think it degrades PAO's effort, but it doesn't. It's just what closed the gap from the predictions to the result we see today... Yes PAO did not magically become the superb team that was hiding all year.....sorry no... They are better than expected but that would not be enough. THAT along with the unreal 3s percentage IS enough (at least for the 2-1 score. Let's see what happens when(IF) 3s stop falling in...)

not wanting to disregard any of your figures, i was talking about a single player that has a name for a bad shooter (and the stats for it) and you are talking of entire teams, which include a whole bunch of great shooters that may have underperformed up to a point. unless you wanna tell me that ricky is a great shooter that has underperformed so far. no i don't think you are that silly, and the fact i presented is kinda silly anyway to go this far...

other than that, the simple fact that there was a ref change (against the rules) with luigi proves only one thing: jordi is the dictator of euro bball and he will do whatever he has to do in order to get barca in the home f4 (let alone that it is again hosted in barca/spain is a scandal)... game 5 in barca probably without luigi (you never know...) and let's hope for the best. game 4 is toast.
 
The thing is, PAO's great percentage in 3ps resulted in an important win in a difficult situation (refs against PAO etc). I am talking about the second game in Spain, where PAO had the 53% for a second time in a row, but Barca dropped to 28% (7/25), so you can say, PAO cashed out on their "luck". If he hadn't won that game he would be far from favourites right now.

Barca couldn't cash out on their 50% yesterday like PAO couldn't cash out on their 53% in the first Spain game...
But if tomorow we have a statistical balancing and we see a reverse of the second game in Spain, do you think PAO can win? I find it doubtfull...

All 3 home games have seen the home team favoured by the refs and the crowd sure helps too to some extent. Under these circumstances and considering both teams almost equal, you need something "more" to steal a road win. A good candidate is the 3p shooting.
All I'm saying is PAO had that in both games in Spain and cashed out in the second one....and that's what makes all the difference in the world right now in this match-up. Let's see if barca will have it tomorow...

Fair enough, but I believe that like Franky and myself pointed out, it is not exactly luck we are talking about here, at least not entirely. Anyway...:cool:

Luigi will to my mind not favor Barca based on what happened so far in the series (average refereeing pushing the home team). Sure, he will try to make it a clear 50-50 game and that is in the Spaniards advantage, but let's be fair on this: They are the champs, and to dethrone the champ you will have to prove you are better than him, not just equal. PAO is on the right path so far. We'll see.
 
Greens, prepare to the wrath of the one and the only Luigi Lamonica :D
 
other than that, the simple fact that there was a ref change (against the rules) with luigi proves only one thing: jordi is the dictator of euro bball and he will do whatever he has to do in order to get barca in the home f4 (let alone that it is again hosted in barca/spain is a scandal)... game 5 in barca probably without luigi (you never know...) and let's hope for the best. game 4 is toast.

the first time i've seen anyone bithcing about referees before the game even started.Congrats for reaching new lows.
 
Without having seen the videos I suppose they r about the technical foul he received 4 flopping. I saw Nicholas extending his arm a little, he did touch Navarro, but by no means was this a foul. Navarro though made it so impressive that he really deserved a technical foul. However, I wouldn't give him an oscar 4 this. He has offered 2 the world of arts marvelous performances more deserving of an award.:D

he got the award because this year in oscars we have not so many quality participators and players to go for it or there was out of form .So it was a low quality season long
and yea it was not his best performance i have ever seen from him
thats true
 
Greens, prepare to the wrath of the one and the only Luigi Lamonica :D

Exaggerations.
It's a typical case of "double bluff"
He is supposed to push Barca,but he will blindside everyone,whistling in favor of the home team.:D
 
the first time i've seen anyone bithcing about referees before the game even started.Congrats for reaching new lows.

Hey you're the guy who said that Lamonica is a fair referee no? That kinda makes it impossible to reach a new low I'd say.
 
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