Philippines Senior National Team Thread

[shindig2]

As per post of lovejones, Gilas will have at least 5 games in the elims. I don't want to be negative but it looks impossible to advance to the second round. At least the 5 preliminary games will expose our players to the world stage. Who knows some NBA scouts may notice our players and perhaps get an invite to an NBA camp.

With the way the PBA calendar's set-up, it is impossible to get the best players of the PBA and send them to Spain 2014. We'll have to fight it out with what the SBP and MVP have.

this is why barring injuries our best bet not to get the "Malaysia" treatment in the worlds is to send the current team.

this team already achieved something don't tell me marami pa rin ang doubting thomases diyan?

either that or fantasy team lineup mode na naman peg nila?

 

[shindig2]

I know it's close to impossible but it's the vibes I'm getting. What if we get bracketed in the World Cup to a group something similar to Group D in our FIBA Asia? I know I'm just being overtly optimistic here but who knows?

hypothetical grouping for the Philippines (based on official FIBA rankings, taking into account the #4 ranked team in the world, the 3rd ranked teams in Europe, Americas and Africa and one team from Oceania):

Greece (4)
Russia (6)
Puerto Rico (19)
Tunisia (22)
New Zealand (18)
Philippines (45)

okay, so ano sa tingin niyo? kaya nating maka 2 wins kung iyan ang mga kalaban? 1 win? makadikit lang ng no more than 30pts? huwag lang "ma-Malaysia"?

 

[Silent Killer2]

China (11)
Iran (20)
Lebanon (25)
Jordan (30)
Korea (33)
Japan (35)
Qatar (36)
Chinese Taipei (42)
Philippines (45)

true, 8 countries were ranked higher than us. however, unless you're too lazy to check it out, outside of China, Iran and Lebanon the difference in rankings against the other countries was no more than 8 rungs higher which is a totally different story when you widen the frame to include other countries outside Asia.

simple logic, its more probable to win against a team ranked "closer" to you than against one that is ranked miles and miles higher.

so kalokohan lang pala ang OFFICIAL FIBA RANKINGS at dapat di pansinin? why am I not surprised that such an assertion will come from our part of the woods?

point being made is be objective with your assertions, while upsets may happen what is the probability of such? that's where the rankings come in.

EXACTLY.. look at china whose ranking is 11 but cant beat a team like serbia (12)?, germany (13)?, slovenia (14)?, croatia(16), puerto rico(19)?

 

[cireexmed2]

If i remember it right


I thought sir nardy or jpm told us here in IBN before that if we qualify to the WC, MVP will move heaven and earth to be able to have the best team possible to have a good showing in the world cup coz he dont want to see Gilas Pilipinas looks a mediocre team in a world stage......... TAMA BA?????????

Great minds and great doers like MVP will not settle for mediocrity thats one thing for sure. Its a rare opportunity for us, as said by one of his senior staff: well not go to Spain as tourists, well go there as competitors.

 

[brod782]

If i remember it right


I thought sir nardy or jpm told us here in IBN before that if we qualify to the WC, MVP will move heaven and earth to be able to have the best team possible to have a good showing in the world cup coz he dont want to see Gilas Pilipinas looks a mediocre team in a world stage......... TAMA BA?????????

is javale mcgee still available?

 

[brod782]

EXACTLY.. look at china whose ranking is 11 but cant beat a team like serbia (12)?, germany (13)?, slovenia (14)?, croatia(16), puerto rico(19)?

yet ct beat china. ..

 

[reamily2]

2 things World Class Preparation or World Class vacation... We might not send a team in Asiad..

 

[Silent Killer2]

yet ct beat china. ..

exactly. whose ranking is 43..

the rankings are deceiving.

 

[manu_bol2]

China (11)
Iran (20)
Lebanon (25)
Jordan (30)
Korea (33)
Japan (35)
Qatar (36)
Chinese Taipei (42)
Philippines (45)

true, 8 countries were ranked higher than us. however, unless you're too lazy to check it out, outside of China, Iran and Lebanon the difference in rankings against the other countries was no more than 8 rungs higher which is a totally different story when you widen the frame to include other countries outside Asia.

simple logic, its more probable to win against a team ranked "closer" to you than against one that is ranked miles and miles higher.

so kalokohan lang pala ang OFFICIAL FIBA RANKINGS at dapat di pansinin? why am I not surprised that such an assertion will come from our part of the woods?

point being made is be objective with your assertions, while upsets may happen what is the probability of such? that's where the rankings come in.

its not kalokohan but considering we were suspended, our ranking is not even reflective of our strength. true that our team is untested in the world stage but unfamiliarity with how our team plays may even be an advantage for us. styles do matter and we don't know how they will react come game time.

the fiba rankings are good but fails in timeliness... it won't reflect that china is no longer the kings of asian basketball... maybe not until after the next 2 olympic cycle. it fails in measuring CURRENT strengths of teams...

that's why you have to play the games. that's why we must not totally dismiss our chances based on an outdated ranking.

 

[kerouac822]

The FIBA World Ranking is actually skewed in favor of Europe and the Americas because of the weight that it gives to different continental tournaments. FIBA Asia is just 0.3, while Eurobasket is 1.

Also, the computation is done on an 8-year basis. As pointed out earlier, the Philippine NT did not earn any points at all in 2005, no thanks to the FIBA suspension. The zero points from 2005 will be replaced by 12 points, thanks to our silver finish this year which will give us 40 points times 0.3.

The reason China is ranked so low is that it has always been a contender in Asia, so much that even if it did not win a game this year, they'd still be number one. The gap, rankings-wise, between them and Iran is too big to be even overcome within the next ten years.

I did a bit of computing this time. Chinese Taipei will lose 3 points from 2005 and gain 5 this year, which will see them with a total of 16.4 points. Japan will end up with 22.6. Jordan will stay put with 33.8 points. Lebanon will lose 12 points and add nothing, giving them a total of 35.4. Korea will lose 3 and gain 10, giving them 33.1. Qatar will lose 10 points and add 3.9, giving them 16.3.

The Philippines will have 22.8 points by the time the next FIBA rankings come around. This will likely put us in this position:

China
Iran
Lebanon
Jordan
Korea
Philippines
Japan
Chinese Taipei
Qatar
Kazakhstan

Good for just 6th, but I don't mind. The difference between the Philippines and Korea will not be breached next year, but it could be an entirely different story in 2015. The third to fifth spots are hotly-contested and I can see the Philippines in that same picture in the next four years, especially with Lebanon being banned for five years.

 

[reamily2]

manubol explain further that FIBA ranking is overrated and does not reflect the present strength of the national teams involved..

 

[manu_bol2]

hypothetical grouping for the Philippines (based on official FIBA rankings, taking into account the #4 ranked team in the world, the 3rd ranked teams in Europe, Americas and Africa and one team from Oceania):

Greece (4)
Russia (6)
Puerto Rico (19)
Tunisia (22)
New Zealand (18)
Philippines (45)

okay, so ano sa tingin niyo? kaya nating maka 2 wins kung iyan ang mga kalaban? 1 win? makadikit lang ng no more than 30pts? huwag lang "ma-Malaysia"?

then there's hongkong at 71 (that's 26 places below) almost beating us at home. CT at 31 below china beat the top asian team by double figures. too many examples to mention.

 

[Sam (a.k.a.) Tuwid2]

the proper context is that the Gilas players have already earned that "PRIVILEGE" having "WON" us the "RIGHT" to compete in the worlds.

geez, who do you think REALLY EARNED it? the other PBA players who either excused themselves outright or hid behind the 1 player per team rule to excuse themselves ?

It will be another year, a very long time, before the FIBA World Cup takes center stage. I am pretty certain, IMHO, that there will be changes to our lineup... so many factors and variables to consider... someone, somehow, or someway will EARN that privilege to don our national colors for simply being better than the other, regardless if the one being replaced was a prior member of the Gilas FIBA Asia group of 2013 or not.

Now if you've personally guaranteed them the right, and your word is cast in stone, as we all know you cannot and your word-- is not, then I would suggest that you lessen your pitch or lessen your stance to a "seeming factual" to a "somewhat factual" claim, unless otherwise on your part, the danger of spreading a misconception is not being given importance.

Either way all that's been said should not be taken hardly as fact anyway, so therefore, a waste of anybody's time if taken seriously, out of context... seriously!

 

[manu_bol2]

we fail to remember that gilas 2.0 was the best team that we could form under the circumstances

it is not the best team that philippine basketball can offer.

 

[Los2]

how would it confuse others when I didnt offer it as the BIBLE TRUTH? kaya ko nga sinabi na POTENTIAL lang eh.

Well I simply backed up what you said with a couple facts so to strengthen your statement. I wasn't saying you were wrong lol..If anything I was encouraging a healthy conversation about it but I don't understand you being so defensive..

 

[Sam (a.k.a.) Tuwid2]

The FIBA World Ranking is actually skewed in favor of Europe and the Americas because of the weight that it gives to different continental tournaments. FIBA Asia is just 0.3, while Eurobasket is 1.

Also, the computation is done on an 8-year basis. As pointed out earlier, the Philippine NT did not earn any points at all in 2005, no thanks to the FIBA suspension. The zero points from 2005 will be replaced by 12 points, thanks to our silver finish this year which will give us 40 points times 0.3.

The reason China is ranked so low is that it has always been a contender in Asia, so much that even if it did not win a game this year, they'd still be number one. The gap, rankings-wise, between them and Iran is too big to be even overcome within the next ten years.

I did a bit of computing this time. Chinese Taipei will lose 3 points from 2005 and gain 5 this year, which will see them with a total of 16.4 points. Japan will end up with 22.6. Jordan will stay put with 33.8 points. Lebanon will lose 12 points and add nothing, giving them a total of 35.4. Korea will lose 3 and gain 10, giving them 33.1. Qatar will lose 10 points and add 3.9, giving them 16.3.

The Philippines will have 22.8 points by the time the next FIBA rankings come around. This will likely put us in this position:

China
Iran
Lebanon
Jordan
Korea
Philippines
Japan
Chinese Taipei
Qatar
Kazakhstan

Good for just 6th, but I don't mind. The difference between the Philippines and Korea will not be breached next year, but it could be an entirely different story in 2015. The third to fifth spots are hotly-contested and I can see the Philippines in that same picture in the next four years, especially with Lebanon being banned for five years.

Good stuff!

 

[Projectspeed2]

hypothetical grouping for the Philippines (based on official FIBA rankings, taking into account the #4 ranked team in the world, the 3rd ranked teams in Europe, Americas and Africa and one team from Oceania):

Greece (4)
Russia (6)
Puerto Rico (19)
Tunisia (22)
New Zealand (18)
Philippines (45)

okay, so ano sa tingin niyo? kaya nating maka 2 wins kung iyan ang mga kalaban? 1 win? makadikit lang ng no more than 30pts? huwag lang "ma-Malaysia"?

we can beat New Zealand and Tunisia =)

 

[manu_bol2]

we can beat New Zealand and Tunisia =)

nope. we can't... they're at least 23 places above us.

if the rankings says we can't... we must accept it.

 

[manu_bol2]

manubol explain further that FIBA ranking is overrated and does not reflect the present strength of the national teams involved..

greece. poor performance in the last 3 years... and they are still at number 4 in world.

 

[Silent Killer2]

and toroman says

http://www.spin.ph/sports/basketball/news/can-gilas-win-a-game-or-two-at-fiba-world-cup-toroman-certainly-thinks-so-v02

Can Gilas win a game or two at Fiba World Cup? Toroman certainly thinks so

By Reuben Terrado

August 13, 2013, 12:51 pm


GILAS Pilipinas may not be in the same league as the US team of NBA superstars or the European squads, but former national coach Rajko Toroman believes the Philippines stands a chance against a few nations in the 2014 Fiba World Cup in Spain.

Speaking after the Philippines punched a ticket to Spain with a runner-up finish in the Fiba-Asia championships, Toroman said Gilas has a realistic shot at beating a few African countries, New Zealand, and the other Asian teams that will join them in the August 2014 tournament.

“I think we have a good fight from Asia. But teams from Africa, I think we can be competitive,” Toroman said.

Toroman, a veteran of international play having led Iran to the 2008 Beijing Olympics, mentioned Nigeria, Tunisia, and New Zealand as some of the teams that Gilas can beat.

Nigeria is a 2012 Olympic qualifier while Tunisia was the 2011 Fiba-Africa titlist. New Zealand also competed in the 2010 Fiba World Championships in Turkey.

“At this moment, Nigeria, we don’t know what kind of team they have. Tunisia is maybe the strongest at the moment. Maybe New Zealand, too. But I think we can be competitive against them,” said Toroman.

The former Gilas coach admitted the Filipinos are still well below European standards but refuses to rule out an upset victory at the worlds, citing Iran's victory over his own native Serbia in a Fiba-sanctioned event in 2008.

“When I was with Iran, nobody expected us to beat Serbia. But that was maybe the biggest result in the history of Iran basketball,” Toroman said.

Gilas Pilipinas capped off its historic campaign in the 2013 Fiba-Asia Championship with a 71-85 loss to Iran for the title but Toroman still likes the chances of the team in the World Cup.

“First step is we have to be very optimistic about the future. Second step is to be as competitive as possible for the world championship. We have excellent players,” said Toroman.

Follow the writer on Twitter: @reubensports