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Big Ticket2
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threatening not to watch the PBA but they are still very active in PBA discussion boards and are very much updated with the PBA happenings...nice!
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Joe Yabuki2
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about Douthit turning pro in the PBA, im pretty sure that all rules will eventually be forgotten if Gilas manages to perform well(a championship or a at least an olympics stint) in the international scene. If that happens Gilas will have a Azkals-like media frenzy and the country would welcome all men with open arms. Such popularity will be hard for the PBA to pass up.
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nardy2
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Yup everything would depend if Marcus question the PBA rule as being discriminating to him as a Filipino Citizen and if envokes his right against it.
But if MVP decides to buy a 'NEW' PBA Franchise and was given a right to bring along some 'amateur' players ..... am expecting Douthit to be one of these players and we'll see MVP confront the other PBA Team Owners regarding this matter. I am very sure a legal battle would actually happen. Remember when the NCAA Mancomm tried to disallow Yousif Aljamal from continuing playing for the San Beda Red Lions because Aljamal had applied for the PBA Draft which according to NCAA officials that time was in violation of NCAA Rules as Yousif needs to get permission first from both the school and the league itself. San Beda gotten the court to issue a TRO resulting on the NCAA giving in to San Beda and as a save face measure they handed down a not really 'damaging' suspension and fine on Aljamal.
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nardy2
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At the moment if ever they do allow Marcus to play as a local in the PBA, it would give the team which acquires him a very big advantage.
Right now even if the teams are 'supposed to be more superior' than the local players of Gilas and have an import with them, they could not stop or even contain SMART GILAS, more so if its a ALL-FILIPINO CONFERENCE.
I have a hypothetical question, assuming this is still the All-Filipino conference and all teams still had their line-ups, do you think a team like Barako Bull or Powerade with Douthit in their line-up would be able to beat the powerhouse teams of Talk N Text and San Miguel (before the Air21 trade) and actually win the Championship.
That is what is worrying a number of the teams. Then there's the possibility of the influx of Naturalized Players which would mean more local players losing their chance in playing in the league. Another problem I can see is that the smaller teams might be worried if Naturalized Players are allowed, they might not be able to afford such players thus giving them less chances of being competitive.
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Jay P. Mercado2
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Agree on the example. MVP has shown that he is willing to go to court and get a temporary restraining order (TRO) to prove the validity of his complaint. If Douthit opts to join the pros and MVP would be buying a new franchise that will allow him to elevate at least 5 amateurs directly to his new team, then Douthit being chosen as one of the five isn't unlikely.
However, the assumption here as well is if the SBP has already reached an accord with the PBA regarding national team reinforcement. Douthit is a critical factor in the campaign of our national team - if he joins the PBA and the league won't allow pro players to suit up for the national team, then it defeats the very purpose of naturalizing him. The assumption was that he will stay with the national team until his retirement which made Congress pass a bill approved into law for this purpose. If the PBA will allow their players to join the national team, then Douthit playing in the PBA is definitely likely.
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Jay P. Mercado2
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I'm not sure if this should concern the PBA that much. Naturalizing players is a process that's not easy. We saw that in Douthit when it took the SBP to influence certain congressmen to hasten the passage of this bill. They were able to find supporters in Robbie Puno at the House and Juan Miguel Zubiri in the Senate. To naturalize someone by law is not something commonly seen or done.
Unlike during Marcos' time when his signature can already put something into law, one just cannot do that today. Recall how Marcos naturalized Sri Lankan Ronnie Nathanielsz that easy. And how a presidential decree was enough for Dennis Still, Jeff Moore and Arthur Engelland to become Filipinos.
So even if the naturalized Filipino rule in the PBA is abolished, then the league shouldn't worry about any so-called influx that will come its way. There would be more Fil-Foreigners coming in for sure, which may lead to the displacement of the homegrown talents. I doubt if this would happen among naturalized Filos.
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EaglesEye2
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Atty. Salud could be right, the league can restrict anybody to play or any company to join. Being a private organization, they can set certain rules and restrictions who will be eligible to play. The same way they implement minimum age, minimum number of college units, height limit for imports, trade appovals and others. Even if somebody will insist that being a naturalized Filipino he is intitled to his rights as stated in the constitution, but for the reason of parity and for the best interest of the league, the PBA can do something.
Lets talk about Douthit's case. Though he's already naturalized, but still he has no Filipino blood. It's against the PBA rule. That's the first requirent to be eligible to play as a local. To have at least a part Filipino lineage.
Okey, for the sake of arguement, let's assume he will be allowed to play as a local. What will be the implications? Do you think, this will be beneficial to the league? Consider the following:
1. Since he will be allowed to play as a local, of course he will start as a rookie. How about his salary? Don't tell me, from US$15K (if I'm not mistaken) he will accept a maximum pay for rookie which is only P150K for the first year, P225K for the 2nd year and P350K in his 3rd year? I don't think so! So another problem will arise on this. Rules will be broken again. This may cause another precedence.
2. The team which will draft him will really have a huge advantage. Just like having a 6-11 import playing against an all-Filipino crew with a tallest player of only 6-7. This will create an imbalance to the league. In the current conference, if the rest of the 9 teams who have a 6-4 import, find it hard to win against Douthit's team, how much more if it's an all local team?
3. If ever he will be allowed to play as a local, do you think that other teams will simply allow to become an underdog just because of him? Instead, they will also make a move to naturalize their own choice players and make sure that they (foreign players) can play for their teams. So instead of focusing their attention in searching and developing for new talents and local breeds, teams will now invest and throw their resources on possible players to be naturalized. This will deny, if not lessen the oppotunities for our home grown players. A mockery of the rule again will blow on this.
With those 3 points I've mentioned above, the interest of the league will be greatly affected. So how can the PBA allow Douthit to play as a local? If so, it will be another step forward to their downfall!
Lets talk about Douthit's case. Though he's already naturalized, but still he has no Filipino blood. It's against the PBA rule. That's the first requirent to be eligible to play as a local. To have at least a part Filipino lineage.
Okey, for the sake of arguement, let's assume he will be allowed to play as a local. What will be the implications? Do you think, this will be beneficial to the league? Consider the following:
1. Since he will be allowed to play as a local, of course he will start as a rookie. How about his salary? Don't tell me, from US$15K (if I'm not mistaken) he will accept a maximum pay for rookie which is only P150K for the first year, P225K for the 2nd year and P350K in his 3rd year? I don't think so! So another problem will arise on this. Rules will be broken again. This may cause another precedence.
2. The team which will draft him will really have a huge advantage. Just like having a 6-11 import playing against an all-Filipino crew with a tallest player of only 6-7. This will create an imbalance to the league. In the current conference, if the rest of the 9 teams who have a 6-4 import, find it hard to win against Douthit's team, how much more if it's an all local team?
3. If ever he will be allowed to play as a local, do you think that other teams will simply allow to become an underdog just because of him? Instead, they will also make a move to naturalize their own choice players and make sure that they (foreign players) can play for their teams. So instead of focusing their attention in searching and developing for new talents and local breeds, teams will now invest and throw their resources on possible players to be naturalized. This will deny, if not lessen the oppotunities for our home grown players. A mockery of the rule again will blow on this.
With those 3 points I've mentioned above, the interest of the league will be greatly affected. So how can the PBA allow Douthit to play as a local? If so, it will be another step forward to their downfall!
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nardy2
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I like to note that this particular law granting Marcus Douthit Filipino Citizenship in unprecedented, because it gave him a special concession wherein Marcus would not lose his US Citizenship and he could retain his American Passport.
This might be the reason PNoy had a hard time signing it to law. Unlike in the past, for one to be Naturalized Filipino one of the requirements is that you have to denounce your original/current Citizenship in order for one to Pledge Allegiance to the Philippines. One cannot have two masters as per the Philippine Constitution.
But being a stand-alone law this could be done.
I wonder how a lot of Indians and Chinese would now feel as they were required to lose their original citizenships in order to become Naturalized Filipinos.
This might be the reason PNoy had a hard time signing it to law. Unlike in the past, for one to be Naturalized Filipino one of the requirements is that you have to denounce your original/current Citizenship in order for one to Pledge Allegiance to the Philippines. One cannot have two masters as per the Philippine Constitution.
But being a stand-alone law this could be done.
I wonder how a lot of Indians and Chinese would now feel as they were required to lose their original citizenships in order to become Naturalized Filipinos.
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Jay P. Mercado2
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I don't disagree with the three points you raised. They're all legitimate. And yes, the league can defend this rule by trying to protect itself from these potential problems in the future. That obviously would be their legal approach if and when they need to defend this rule.
However, no matter how sincere and noble a rule is, so long as it is deemed contrary to the Constitution, the Court will decide in favor of the higher law. Here's a simple analogy: a company terminates an employee for violation of a particular company rule. Said employee, while guilty of such violation, may still go to the DOLE-NLRC and question the validity of this rule. If the government agency deems it as counter to the right of the employee, then the company is sanctioned and the employee is reinstated.
The question really is if the rule on banning of naturalized Filipinos is legal or not. No one knows yet as no one has asked. This hasn't been taken to court yet for resolution so this rule, until otherwise questioned, remains legitimate. If Douthit opts not to join the pros, then the rule will continue to stand. If Douthit joins and the PBA accommodates him as an exception, then the rule may still continue. If Douthit joins and the PBA denies his request and Douthit goes to court, then we will know if the rule is valid or otherwise.
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Jay P. Mercado2
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Nardy,
My opinion on this is that unlike before when a person being considered for naturalization is forced to denounce his other citizenship, this won't be applicable anymore. The passage of the dual citizenship law has paved the way for Douthit to retain his American citizenship status while also earning his right to become Filipino.
I may be wrong with this opinion but I believe this may be the reason why denouncement of original citizenship isn't necessary anymore.
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nardy2
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Am not sure because my Chinese and Indian Friends who are now Naturalized Filipinos were told by the Department of Justice, Department of Foreign Affairs and the Bureau of Immigration that the Dual Citizenship Law (Republic Act No. 9225 / Citizenship Retention and Re-Acquisition Act of 2003) are not applicable to them as it is only for individuals who were a natural-born Filipino citizen but lost his/her Philippine citizenship due to naturalization as a citizen of a foreign country who may now apply for the Administration of Oath of Allegiance to the Republic of the Philippines.
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Jay P. Mercado2
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Got that Nardy. Sounds logical also, since it only pertains to Filipinos who added another citizenship in their sleeves.
Thanks!
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silverwing2
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this is my take on your comments:
Point #1 : Previous PBA Players before already told that there are other benifits being given to star players or players that has good skills. The salary that was set is for document purpose only but I don't believed that the total salary/benefits of PBA players is complying on the salary rule. This practice is well known in other leagues as well like NBA and CBA.
Point#2 : Naturalization process is not that easy, The reason why Marcus papers was rushed and supported by congress and senate is because Marcus is going to play in our NT, which would give us a big boost to bring back the glory that we have in our no.1 sport. I would also like to say that there are hearings that needs to take place in congress and senate for such bills like naturalization. The only negative thing that i see on this, PNoy might sign naturalize players bill for his uncle Danding's PBA team.lol (possible but it would become a big issue if PNoy do such acts)
Point#3 : Its time for the PBA to make the competition higher. They should be open on setting the height of the imports to 6'8" - 7'0"+, It would make our players tougher. If you will see it would help local players, because they will play the position they really suit in. like SG/SF/PF. We will now see legitimate centers, and imports would not play the normal position of our locals which are SG/SF/PF. Remember fans like games that has full of actions like slam dunks and shot blocks. Believe it or not fans nowadays are looking for new things in PBA.
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EaglesEye2
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this is my take on your comments:
Point #1 : Previous PBA Players before already told that there are other benifits being given to star players or players that has good skills. The salary that was set is for document purpose only but I don't believed that the total salary/benefits of PBA players is complying on the salary rule. This practice is well known in other leagues as well like NBA and CBA.
Point#2 : Naturalization process is not that easy, The reason why Marcus papers was rushed and supported by congress and senate is because Marcus is going to play in our NT, which would give us a big boost to bring back the glory that we have in our no.1 sport. I would also like to say that there are hearings that needs to take place in congress and senate for such bills like naturalization. The only negative thing that i see on this, PNoy might sign naturalize players bill for his uncle Danding's PBA team.lol (possible but it would become a big issue if PNoy do such acts)
Point#3 : Its time for the PBA to make the competition higher. They should be open on setting the height of the imports to 6'8" - 7'0"+, It would make our players tougher. If you will see it would help local players, because they will play the position they really suit in. like SG/SF/PF. We will now see legitimate centers, and imports would not play the normal position of our locals which are SG/SF/PF. Remember fans like games that has full of actions like slam dunks and shot blocks. Believe it or not fans nowadays are looking for new things in PBA.
1. Yes, assuming that the current figures are for document purposes only, it's still imposible that for a rookie, no matter how good he is, he will be allowed to receive a salary like an import. He's already a local so he should also receive salary as of a local. Each players now no matter how good they are, are given salary cap plus bonuses. But it's hard to believe that their bonuses is way much greater than their basic pay. For example, they sign a contract of P150K a month then receive a bonus of P400K. (I'm taking that example to accomodate Douthit's current salary as an import.)
2. We all know how hard and supposedly long naturalization process in our country. Douthit's case was an exception. But here in our country, money talks! And you even state an example for P-Noy to favor his Uncle Danding's teams. That's another possibility. So therefore, if they will allow Douthit to play as a local, for sure, other teams (SMC teams in particular) will not let this pass not to get a naturalized player too. So how about those teams which can't afford to pay for the naturalization of their imports? How about those team owners who are not as influencial as the Pangilinans and the Cojuangcos?
3. Since I watched PBA, I already saw 2 conferences ( 2004-2005 Fiesta and 2007-2008 Fiesta) which featured imports of unlimited height. I found no problem when they did that. There's no question. Since all teams were having equal opportunity of getting big imports. But for the case of Douthit, only the team which will get him will be benefited. So it's really a mismatch since the other teams will have none. No matter how they will expose their big men to seven footers. No matter how they are used to play against tough big men. Still they can't fairly match with him if their teams will just rely on their 6-7 local centers.
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nardong_putik2
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I doubt Douthit will apply to the PBA draft.
Remember that a rookie maximum salary is way way low compared to his monthly salary being a national player. He still need to wait 2 more years just to get the maximum salary of a PBA player but still its way low compared what he receive. And if ever he will apply to the PBA he need to drop his present salary because PBA will not allow it.
Remember that a rookie maximum salary is way way low compared to his monthly salary being a national player. He still need to wait 2 more years just to get the maximum salary of a PBA player but still its way low compared what he receive. And if ever he will apply to the PBA he need to drop his present salary because PBA will not allow it.
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DS_422
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If ever he'll be allowed to play in the PBA, its quite certain that MVP will NOT let him play for any other teams. And the assumption that he will still play for SBP formed NT. With that he can get the max salary for a rookie and probably get the rest of the money for being part of Gilas.
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KevinDurant2
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Douthit has been playing overseas as a pro. So this means that he's not eligible to join the draft, coz it's for amateurs.
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thayil2
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Douthit
Douthit
having Kuya Douthit in PBA for me is a great Idea.
1.) It would make our PBA players get used of playing 6'10" above players
2.) Sam Ekwe --- Filipino by heart! He may be 6'8" for a center at least Decent enough to bang bodies with above 6'9" players but what I think of him is he doesn't mind "the salary" as long as he is playing basketball I heard that he is wealthy in Nigeria.
3.) Christian Sentchu, Sudan, Pipo. Long etc-- please let him play for our NT or let them play in PBA! sayang eh
Douthit
having Kuya Douthit in PBA for me is a great Idea.
1.) It would make our PBA players get used of playing 6'10" above players
2.) Sam Ekwe --- Filipino by heart! He may be 6'8" for a center at least Decent enough to bang bodies with above 6'9" players but what I think of him is he doesn't mind "the salary" as long as he is playing basketball I heard that he is wealthy in Nigeria.
3.) Christian Sentchu, Sudan, Pipo. Long etc-- please let him play for our NT or let them play in PBA! sayang eh
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KevinDurant2
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MVP must elevate the Gilas core to the PBA. Then when there's an upcoming int'l competition, pull them out and play with Douthit. With that future NTs wont start from scratch.
Douthit was naturalized for the NT,
Douthit was naturalized for the NT,
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Joe Yabuki2
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wait, is this a new rule? cuz as far as I know, there are a handful of PBA players that have played pro internationally (Jason Castro playing for the Singapore Slingers, Rudy Ligganay with Thailand) before applying for the draft. You could even argue that the PBL and PBADL are semi-pro leagues.
as for Douthit again, maybe if ever, he does apply the PBA can impose a rule regarding naturalized players that would require them to serve the NT team on a certain amount of years, preferrably 2 or 3. before joining the league. Besides, I dont think a team like Powerade will be able to replicate what Gilas is doing, Gilas' strongest weapon is its discipline on offense and defense. Which is something that the lower tier teams sorely lack. Not to mention his arrival will force teams(and their respective board members) to not impose height limits on their imports. IMO the probable entrance of Douthit signifies a much needed change for the PBA. Unrestricted, well thought defense and offensive patterns by coaches, better NT program. All these will come to fruition if the board members would learn to embrace challenges instead of evading something that would hinder their short term goals. This is like teaching a kid how to eat vegetables.
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