PBA commish grievance thread

[Alex072]

pasensya,pasensya..boooooo!!!

pasensya,pasensya..boooooo!!!

TEAM PILIPINAS
Barrios wants PBA out of RP team
By Waylon Galvez, Manila Bulletin
May 28, 2008

The all-pro team that placed 9th in the previous FIBA-Asia Olympic Qualifying meet in Japan could be the last international tournament for the PBA.

This was the suggestion made by PBA Commissioner Sonny Barrios as he asked the board to consider the scrapping of the "pickup" system in forming a national team that has not worked since professional players started to don the national colors 18 years ago.

"My point was that it's obvious that our market will not be attracted during the games if we don't have the stars of the show," Barrios said after the board meeting where Solar Sports was awarded the TV rights yesterday.

Barrios said that the last Philippine Cup and the current Fiesta Cup this season did better than the previous one in terms of gate revenue and TV ratings.

"We're doing better by 59 percent over last season. And it's not because of the 'Sonny Barrios magic' but because our marquee players were with the national team," Barrios said.

The league commissioner was referring to last season's Fiesta Cup where superstars like Mark Caguioa, Jay-Jay Helterbrand, Asi Taulava and Keryby Raymundo were loaned to the national team.

That Chot Reyes-mentored squad backed by SMC failed to qualify to this year's Beijing Olympics after it placed ninth overall.

In the Asian Games, the best finish of the PBA-backed team was second or a silver medal behind China in Beijing. The all-pro Centennial Team won a bronze medal during the Bangkok Asian Games.

The PBA-RP team twice finished fourth in the Asian Games -- the 1994 in Hiroshima, Japan and 2002 in Busan, Korea.

"I think that the pick up system of supplying the national team doesn't work. Not only for the national team but it's more harmful to the league (PBA)," Barrios said.

"We need to support the programs of the SBP (Samahang Basketball ng Pilipinas) on the medium and long-term modes on how to have players for the national team and we have to move away from the pick up system," he added.

Barrios was recently named together with board chairman Tony Chua, previous chairman Ricky Vargas and Talk 'N Text governor Manny V. Pangilinan, currently the SBP president, as league representatives to the SBP board of trustees.

According to Barrios, there are other ways to support the SBP and the national team "financial and non-financial."

This includes the possibility of inviting the RP-Youth coached by Franz Pumaren to play in the PBA as guest team in the near future to prepare them for the 2012 London Olympics qualifying meet.

"If they play together for the next three years, they'll be ready. It's patterned after the NCC (of Ron Jacobs). Instead of going back to the PBA again," he said.

 

[Alex072]

Come now alex, read my post again, it would answer your question in a brief.

Even so that they have an apprentice program..I won't send an apprentice to do a professional's job..I mean c'mmon,Pilipinas is not that good to send a bunch of amateurs and make it all the way to the Olympics or even the WBC it's not gonna happen unless those amateurs were a)NBA player clones or B)advance kinetic cyborgs...I mean..It's just plain logic...Maybe the commish is just too lazy or just too busy procrastinating..I know having PBA players in the RPNT would be tough and time-consuming job not to mention expensive but all of these would be worth it when we see our NT in the global scene..not to mention the endorsements the RPNT could get.I know we have the top corporations to back us up. If I were to go to war I want the finest soldiers on my lineup,not a bunch of young kids playing paintball and counterstrike.

 

[dreamwalker2]

Even so that they have an apprentice program..I won't send an apprentice to do a professional's job..I mean c'mmon,Pilipinas is not that good to send a bunch of amateurs and make it all the way to the Olympics or even the WBC it's not gonna happen unless those amateurs were a)NBA player clones or B)advance kinetic cyborgs...I mean..It's just plain logic...Maybe the commish is just too lazy or just too busy procrastinating..I know having PBA players in the RPNT would be tough and time-consuming job not to mention expensive but all of these would be worth it when we see our NT in the global scene..not to mention the endorsements the RPNT could get.I know we have the top corporations to back us up.

The point is like this my friend, the apprenticeship program is specifically designed to develop young players and improve their skills playing professional hoops, similar to the one suggested by one of the threadsters here, where he cited Iran as an example wherein they accommodate youth players in their professional ballclubs. Remember that these players will mature and become future draft picks. A good example that I could think of is the South Koreans, they have a team of U24 we could put up a similar team. As far as I can remember, the Cenntenial Team competed and faced such a team in a previous Jones Cup. I am proposing the formation or a pool players for a team of U18's, U20's, and U24's, the latter will be our men's national team. Remember the target is the 2012 London Olympic Games, 4 years from now.

Iran as an example is a very young team, their oldest player is just 26 their team average age is close to 24 years and a half.

We can all include all our tall young players to play for this team, Aguilar, Chiu, Slaughter, De Guzman and who ever comes after them. You are so good Alex, in naming a prospective lineup, now I am asking you a favor, please make a list of who among our tall young players (locals/fil-foreigners) would you like to be included in U24 national team ? I'll include the first four that I've mentioned, who else ? Forget the naturalization of a 7-foot rebounding monster, it would never happen under Philippine naturalization law, it would take a decade to process one.

The problem with Mr. Barrios is that he is not as flamboyant as Eala, he is not a media-type kind of a person, he gives statements in general terms without specifying any details of the PBA's support. If I can only have his email address and stick my proposals right on top of his head.

 

[zuma1692]

ok.. apprenticeship program... my goodness don't you see that if we have that program they ARE STILL PLAYING IN THE PBA?!?!?!?! gosh what's the point of having a team separate from the PBA if they are going to play in the PBA as well in an apprenticeship program?!?!?! i really don't see the point..

also to answer everyone about the IRAN model, the youth players were never into like something like the apprenticeship program.. they were part of the professional league already at a very youg age, which is a common practice already internationally... so my point is Iran has professional players in their national team...

just my opinion...

 

[Alex072]

Barrios' suck however may he explain it

Barrios' suck however may he explain it

The point is like this my friend, the apprenticeship program is specifically designed to develop young players and improve their skills playing professional hoops, similar to the one suggested by one of the threadsters here, where he cited Iran as an example wherein they accommodate youth players in their professional ballclubs. Remember that these players will mature and become future draft picks. A good example that I could think of is the South Koreans, they have a team of U24 we could put up a similar team. As far as I can remember, the Cenntenial Team competed and faced such a team in a previous Jones Cup. I am proposing the formation or a pool players for a team of U18's, U20's, and U24's, the latter will be our men's national team. Remember the target is the 2012 London Olympic Games, 4 years from now.

Iran as an example is a very young team, their oldest player is just 26 their team average age is close to 24 years and a half.

We can all include all our tall young players to play for this team, Aguilar, Chiu, Slaughter, De Guzman and who ever comes after them. You are so good Alex, in naming a prospective lineup, now I am asking you a favor, please make a list of who among our tall young players (locals/fil-foreigners) would you like to be included in U24 national team ? I'll include the first four that I've mentioned, who else ? Forget the naturalization of a 7-foot rebounding monster, it would never happen under Philippine naturalization law, it would take a decade to process one.

The problem with Mr. Barrios is that he is not as flamboyant as Eala, he is not a media-type kind of a person, he gives statements in general terms without specifying any details of the PBA's support. If I can only have his email address and stick my proposals right on top of his head.

Those youngsters will not be available for the RP team because they have individual commitments with their own schools.Even those kids are not ready to play internationally without the help of the professional players.I would prefer to have atleast 80-85% professional players on the lineup of the RP team,which is now according to the unflamboyant barrios would be impossible.Going back to the big guys like Aguilar and Chiu forget about GS and Jericho because those guys aren't just ready till 4-5 years,Even with them on the lineup we will miss guys who could support them on the frontcourt like Thoss,Jay-r Reyes etc..and there will be no good small forwards who are atleast 6'6 or 6'7 like Williams and Devance.Forget about the under-20's and 21's because they didn't even mention that in SBP the only option availabe are the U-18 squad.I don't even need to explain all of this to show that their idea suck.Atleast former commish Eala has more logic than the old guy. I don't care If our players are 20 or 30 years old as long as the team wins.The Filipinos are tired of making excuses..what would be the next excuse...Yes we have good players,but oh they're not on the lineup..then we are all gonna say our could have been lines.Now everything seems like a mess and Pinoys are going back to their weakness which is bad politics..It's hard to beat a system that is old school and sucks..The normal pinoys could do nothing but feel like $h*t and pray that he or she could go and migrate somewhere else.

 

[KamoteQ2]

TEAM PILIPINAS
Barrios wants PBA out of RP team
By Waylon Galvez, Manila Bulletin
May 28, 2008

The all-pro team that placed 9th in the previous FIBA-Asia Olympic Qualifying meet in Japan could be the last international tournament for the PBA.

This was the suggestion made by PBA Commissioner Sonny Barrios as he asked the board to consider the scrapping of the "pickup" system in forming a national team that has not worked since professional players started to don the national colors 18 years ago.

"My point was that it's obvious that our market will not be attracted during the games if we don't have the stars of the show," Barrios said after the board meeting where Solar Sports was awarded the TV rights yesterday.

Barrios said that the last Philippine Cup and the current Fiesta Cup this season did better than the previous one in terms of gate revenue and TV ratings.

"We're doing better by 59 percent over last season. And it's not because of the 'Sonny Barrios magic' but because our marquee players were with the national team," Barrios said.

The league commissioner was referring to last season's Fiesta Cup where superstars like Mark Caguioa, Jay-Jay Helterbrand, Asi Taulava and Keryby Raymundo were loaned to the national team.

That Chot Reyes-mentored squad backed by SMC failed to qualify to this year's Beijing Olympics after it placed ninth overall.

In the Asian Games, the best finish of the PBA-backed team was second or a silver medal behind China in Beijing. The all-pro Centennial Team won a bronze medal during the Bangkok Asian Games.

The PBA-RP team twice finished fourth in the Asian Games -- the 1994 in Hiroshima, Japan and 2002 in Busan, Korea.

"I think that the pick up system of supplying the national team doesn't work. Not only for the national team but it's more harmful to the league (PBA)," Barrios said.

"We need to support the programs of the SBP (Samahang Basketball ng Pilipinas) on the medium and long-term modes on how to have players for the national team and we have to move away from the pick up system," he added.

Barrios was recently named together with board chairman Tony Chua, previous chairman Ricky Vargas and Talk 'N Text governor Manny V. Pangilinan, currently the SBP president, as league representatives to the SBP board of trustees.

According to Barrios, there are other ways to support the SBP and the national team "financial and non-financial."

This includes the possibility of inviting the RP-Youth coached by Franz Pumaren to play in the PBA as guest team in the near future to prepare them for the 2012 London Olympics qualifying meet.

"If they play together for the next three years, they'll be ready. It's patterned after the NCC (of Ron Jacobs). Instead of going back to the PBA again," he said.

Maybe its not just Barrios who wants it, the PBA Boards wants it to. It looks like it will push through, and the 3 conference format

 

[jrb0yd2]

i called the pba this morning and asked for the commissioner. and guess what, the commissioner is currently in palawan. the pba is ongoing and there is a scheduled game today and then look where your commissioner is, just having a good time in palawan. the operator told me to just call on monday and he assured me that barrios will already be there by that time. i encourage everyone to try and call the pba also by monday. well that is if u have the guts and if u really want to help in this own little way. cheers!

Telephone No. +63.2.6381815, +63.2.6381816, +63.2.6381817 Fax No. +63.2.6347584

 

[zuma1692]

i called the pba this morning and asked for the commissioner. and guess what, the commissioner is currently in palawan. the pba is ongoing and there is a scheduled game today and then look where your commissioner is, just having a good time in palawan. the operator told me to just call on monday and he assured me that barrios will already be there by that time. i encourage everyone to try and call the pba also by monday. well that is if u have the guts and if u really want to help in this own little way. cheers!

Telephone No. +63.2.6381815, +63.2.6381816, +63.2.6381817 Fax No. +63.2.6347584

nice one bro.. i think i want to do this on monday.. because for sure i would have a lot of points of arguement which i know would be stronger than that of his.. hehehe..

 

[dreamwalker2]

ok.. apprenticeship program... my goodness don't you see that if we have that program they ARE STILL PLAYING IN THE PBA?!?!?!?! gosh what's the point of having a team separate from the PBA if they are going to play in the PBA as well in an apprenticeship program?!?!?! i really don't see the point..
also to answer everyone about the IRAN model, the youth players were never into like something like the apprenticeship program.. they were part of the professional league already at a very youg age, which is a common practice already internationally... so my point is Iran has professional players in their national team...

just my opinion...

Our young players would just be on just on lease to the PBA ballclubs and can be withdrawn by SBP anytime should there be an international competition for basketball, its just a defensive mechanism for the SBP against any possible PBA "pirating" of its players, as I indicated previously.

You brought up that Iran employs their young players in the Iranian Basketball Super League and plays professional ball, how many leagues do they have right now compared to the Philippine setup ?. Lebanon is the almost the same but with a different concept, some of their young players play professionally in France, in Germany, in many parts of europe.

My proposal is just a rough draft and can be refined suitable to the current Philippine basketball setting which is very my different from the common practice internationally - my suggestion is only appropriate to our present basketball setup.

Do you have a better proposal Mr. Zuma169 ? instead of having a apprenticeship program that I have already suggested.

I would like to hear that from you and expect others would be interested on what you will say. Will you give it a try my friend ? and present you stronger arguments if you must.

 

[jrb0yd2]

nice one bro.. i think i want to do this on monday.. because for sure i would have a lot of points of arguement which i know would be stronger than that of his.. hehehe..

thank you man. i hope others will follow too. i plan to call the pba again later this day and ask for someone to talk to like a secretary or a member of the board. this is the only thing we can do... so pls everyone, give it a try...

 

[Alex072]

My Proposal is to stick to the first plan..Let the PBA players play on the RP team..The PBA should change it's course by having 2 conferences a year so there would be time for the PBA players to prepare and compete.I hope they(Mr. Sonny Barrios,Mr.Tony Chua and other PBA reps)should think of the first plan thoroughly.

 

[Alex072]

i called the pba this morning and asked for the commissioner. and guess what, the commissioner is currently in palawan. the pba is ongoing and there is a scheduled game today and then look where your commissioner is, just having a good time in palawan. the operator told me to just call on monday and he assured me that barrios will already be there by that time. i encourage everyone to try and call the pba also by monday. well that is if u have the guts and if u really want to help in this own little way. cheers!

Telephone No. +63.2.6381815, +63.2.6381816, +63.2.6381817 Fax No. +63.2.6347584

There is an out of town game in Palawan..I'll try to contact them by monday

 

[dreamwalker2]

IC, there's an out-of-town game in Palawan. I would like to hear from you guys after you made the call on monday.

 

[dreamwalker2]

My Proposal is to stick to the first plan..Let the PBA players play on the RP team..The PBA should change it's course by having 2 conferences a year so there would be time for the PBA players to prepare and compete.I hope they(Mr. Sonny Barrios,Mr.Tony Chua and other PBA reps)should think of the first plan thoroughly.

I like your proposal, I hope to hear from you, tuesday perhaps ? after you made your call to Mr. Barrios.

 

[b3lowzro2]

My Proposal is to stick to the first plan..Let the PBA players play on the RP team..The PBA should change it's course by having 2 conferences a year so there would be time for the PBA players to prepare and compete.I hope they(Mr. Sonny Barrios,Mr.Tony Chua and other PBA reps)should think of the first plan thoroughly.

who are you to question them? They wont listen to you, they just listen to their advertisers, to the statistic of the ticket sales.

 

[jrb0yd2]

Your proposal is ok but obviously Mr. Barrios will not have the vision nor the aptitude to apply something like that. Hell, he doesn't even have the forsight of providing international exposure to our best players (most of them are in the PBA) to imrove their product (PBA games). With the onset of globalization this guy thinks the protectionist ideas will serve the PBA well.
You tell me if you see that the PBA will be successful in the long run if it continues to look like slow motion basketball compared to other leagues shown on local TV and cable. Tell me if fans will enjoy the ticky tacky fouls that they call in the PBA just because you are a star or an import. In the long run more physical leagues and faster paced basketball will be more exciting for the filipino fan.
The collegiate leagues and the PBL are even more physical and faster paced today than our overpaid players in the PBA. True our players there are the most talented but they regress and become fat, uninspiring players because the PBA chooses to protect them rather than develop them(international exposure). No matter what marketing gimmick you use if the product is inferior it will bomb out big time.
Too emphasize how incompetent this guy is. You here him preaching the NCC model in an era of open basketball. The SBP model in place is already fixing the feeder system of the national team with our youth teams. But you should never remove a players right or obligation to play for the country if he is the best just because he joined a professional league. The two confrence set up is a great compromise so that schedules for local and international tournaments are served. His statements reeks of self serving interest and zero creativity. If this pushes thru I will campaign extensively so that will boycott the PBA becasue they are not serving the interests of the fans with that kind of position. Mark my words I'll make it a personal campaign complete with flyers, posters and position statements and the works to shake this people to their senses.

i couldn't agree more! kudos to you! try to contact them also! the pba and the old commish kept on talking about the fans blah blah blah, the hell with them all if they don't listen to us!

 

[zuma1692]

Our young players would just be on just on lease to the PBA ballclubs and can be withdrawn by SBP anytime should there be an international competition for basketball, its just a defensive mechanism for the SBP against any possible PBA "pirating" of its players, as I indicated previously.

You brought up that Iran employs their young players in the Iranian Basketball Super League and plays professional ball, how many leagues do they have right now compared to the Philippine setup ?. Lebanon is the almost the same but with a different concept, some of their young players play professionally in Franch, in Germany, in many parts of europe.

My proposal is just a rough draft and can be refined suitable to the current Philippine basketball setting which is very my different from the common practice internationally - my suggestion is only appropriate to our present basketball setup.

Do you have a better proposal Mr. Zuma169 ? instead of having a apprenticeship program that I have already suggested.

I would like to hear that from you and expect others would be interested on what you will say. Will you give it a try my friend ? and present you stronger arguments if you must.

Dreamwalker,

I appreciate your inputs. It really brings out all the best options we could have. Here is what I suggest (which is not really a radical change from the Noli Eala set-up):

JUST CONTINUE THE PROGRAM (I am still for the PBA for the National Team for a very simple reason that the BEST are in this league) but here are minor adjustments:

- early entry in the PBA
i believe that if you start early a lot of things can improve.. but i still need to put premium on education. so I propose that a player who already finished at least all units for second year college and played 3 years of college ball or PBL can be eligible already for the PBA.. so that means at the age of around 19 or 20 he can already play in the PBA if he wishes to..

- create a pool of players consisting of 24 PBA players and 6 Amateur players (players 19 and under)
this would consist the national pool wherein Coach Chot Reyes will choose the 12 players for each tournament our country would participate in. this pool should be always be a total of 30. If someone from the pool is too old or does not meet the standards of the Coach, then he should be replaced by the Coach from the available players. if it is a professional player then he should come from the pba. if it is an amateur, he should come form the PBL, UAAP, NCAA, etc... these players would play pick-up games twice per month on seasons with no major tournaments and if there would be major tournaments like FIBA ASIA or the like, they would practice once a week.. once the season is over, they would now shift to twice a day practices until the tournament comes.. every year, during the off season, the pool must participate in various international tournaments or goodwill games with national teams for them to be familiar always with the international play. in this way, the mother teams would still have their top players and the season would not be disrupted.. and on the other hand, there would be familiarity between players and familiarity with the international scene..

-the national coach should not be from the PBA teams

-the PBL should allow players who played one season already in college to play
since the PBA allows younger players to apply, this should be the same as the PBL.

-the PBL should religiously participate in the SEA level tournaments as well as the FIBA ASIA Champs Cup and the Jones Cup (unless the PBA national team would wish to)
since I know the PBL is a non-profit non-stock league, it is not a business or corporation.. so i think they can be more flexible in terms of schedule.. this would be a training ground and exposure as well

-the youth team should be well taken care of until they enter the PBA
the mindset should be that this team would be the core for international meets in the future. this team should be groomed for the seniors team. this should be the vision for this team. so all possible exposure (locally and internationally) should be given to these young men. also, the 6 amateurs that are included in the national pool should come from this youth team..

this is my plan for the National Team.. just an opinion.. this is open for suggestions.

Thanks.

 

[dreamwalker2]

That is what saddens ALL of us here.

We'll just have to wait what happens after the SBP board elections on June 12. How will the elected board react to the PBA decision? Who will now comprise the Senior NT to compete in next year's tournaments?

I can see those BAP people laughing right now because they, too, were in this losing position before. They would now boast of at least having an MOA with the PBA then while creating/developing a separate, independent senior NT. Remember the so-called "try-outs ng bayan (nation wide tryouts)" which coach Zamar headed and was sponsored by Lhuillier? I think Samige Eman was discovered then.

The only difference I see is, at least, ALL basketball stakeholders are on board and are willing to support the national cause....... except the PBA. Oh, I forgot. PBA would support the RPNT:
YEAH, RIGHT.

Correct, that's why the corporate PBA now sucks. Alex and I did a candid chat coversation a few minutes ago, I guess it's high time we have an interbasket chatforum, to know each other well. It was a different and fun experience knowing your fellow threadsters up close.

And yup, I do remember the "Tryouts ng Bayan", what I think now is that Liga would have a better end of the bargain, it's a provincial league and might have all the new young prospects in its fold. I support Liga all the way.

 

[Alex072]

Just called a few minutes ago. The Media Bureau is in the games na raw but i gave them a piece of my mind. i said in the vernacular that if they will not lend players to the national team that we will not watch their games and will even campaign against them if they don't stop this. I will call again on monday. and will start multiple blogs if I don't get something concrete by next week. Hell I might even post something on you tube. Mr. Barrios you brought this upon the PBA. Bring back Noli Eala!!!!!

I hope the PBA would listen to their fans...

 

[UnitedAmeircanTikiTiki2]

maybe we should watch LIGA only and abandon PBA so that they will realize how stupid they are........