Euroleague 2012/13 teams

[Hot Spot2]

About Eurocup. Suddenly, I find a notice in the EC website saying Polish team Zastal Zielona Gora re-signs Walter Hodge. When the hell did they join the Eurocup instead of Kolossos?

This happened two weeks ago. Euroleague indeed managed that very quietly (they simply deleted Kolossos from their list on the web-site and put in Zastal instead). Because Kolossos did not meet the conditions (I guess, their gym is too small and the new one will not be ready in time), they invited Zastal.

http://www.zastalbasket.pl/NEWS/Zastal-zagra-w-Eurocupie

 

[Billy Bounce2]

But, all that is just an example, I mean... as far as I am concerned there are tons of options for different rankings etc. I'd just like any of them to follow those 3 points I meantioned in my previous post and I am okay with it as that's the path I honestly believe european basketball should follow if it wants to grow in both size and quality. Sure I also want basketball to grow in Slovenia, but demanding priviledges given behind the desk in order to achieve that is... somehow... unefficient when the whole larger picture comes to mind.

There are tons of options , but real life situations have the tendency to destroy any carefully crafted ranking system.
Just as in your example : Israel has better ranking then Lithuania , so result-wise Israel should have more ( or at least the same amount) clubs in EL then Lithuania . Both Zalgiris and L. Rytas deserved to be in EL ( Euro-players production, 10k+ arenas, results, fans' support, you name it) . Sport results ranking means giving EL spot to the second Israeli team, for the sake of fairness. The problem there is no such team yet.

The same could be applied to Israeli league and ABA for example: last season Maccabi alone produced more wins then all ABA teams together. Yet, I think that's it's better for EL to have 3 ABA Slovenian/Croatian/Serbian clubs then giving 2 extra EL spots to the clubs that aren't build ( budget, infrastructure - wise) to play EL.

Even if we add budgets & infrastructure to the ranking ( bye-bye sport results ) , still we have financial stability issues . Majority of clubs depend on external sources of money, so one decision of club owner/main sponsor and last year champion won't be able to survive , let alone be competitive next year.

My own conclusion that there is no magic ranking to include all real-world factors. At least not in a present state of matters with European basketball. Maybe in some distant future when majority of clubs will have stable break-even budgets and EL will generate enough money to share it with clubs ( like football Champions ), but not now.

 

[jonga2]

this euroleague seems that some top teams would be worse than last years.... especially PAO... another teams could be Siena or even Maccabi. what do you think maccabi or siena fans?

I think that CSKA will be the best roster again, what about shved and kirilenko? will go to the NBA?

then in my opinion the best rosters (not the best teams, olympiakos last year was the best team) will be....... spanish barça and real madrid, turkish fenerbache and efes, italian milano and greek olympiakos. then there are some teams which could be a "surprise" this year, khimki which won last eurocup is one with very good signings. also unicaja is going to be harder than last years.

another team is caja laboral baskonia, my team after didn't qualify to top16 last year (first time ever), seems to me that they are improving the roster, and they played very good playoffs, almost won semifinals against real madrid (3-2, after going 1-2).... maciej lampe is going to be the star of the team and top center in euroleague, last year was injured. and nemanja bjelica could be one of the most improving players (he played amazing playoffs, better than teletovic who played awfull playoffs.)

the most possible team could be something like this:

SG: causeur, oleson
SF: san emeterio, nocioni
PF: nemanja bjelica, milko bjelica
C: maciej lampe, tibor pleiss

and 3 more signings:

an starter PG, maybe an american (also ukic was rumoured....). and from the bench an "spanish" PG (cabezas, jayson granger....)
and another inside player, center or PF, last days is rumoured about maric, but my favourite would be macvan (last year baskonia was close to sign him)

prigioni and teletovic signed NBA contracts. ribas is going to valencia and nocioni is close to resign.

My team(Olympiakos) is in a ridiculous group TMO.
If they play as they played in the play-offs against Siena,
in the F4 and in the finals against Panathinaikos and we have
the same roster or even better,maybe we will qualify in
the Top 16 without defeat.
PAO is in a more difficult group,but I think he will qualify in
the 1st position.In the Top 16 do we have a draw or this rule changed?
PS:Group D is the toughest with the 2 favorites of the previous year(CSKA,Barca).

jajjajajajjajjaja, without defeat! ridiculous group?? you seem like a troll. olympiakos have maybe the thoughest group, with 3 teams of similar level than the reds (efes, milano, baskonia), and zalguiris, another good team which could be qualified...... you are overvaluing olympiakos and underestimating another teams, all of them are improving their rosters. you can live in the past and think that you could repeat last year miracle..... last euroleague olympiakos lost nine games, and now you think that you are going to win 10 in a row. save this in bookmarks and see you after december, maybe olympiakos is third or fourth of the group (all is possible).

 

[Mindozas6]

the most possible team could be something like this:

SG: causeur, oleson
SF: san emeterio, nocioni
PF: nemanja bjelica, milko bjelica
C: maciej lampe, tibor pleiss

and 3 more signings:

an starter PG, maybe an american (also ukic was rumoured....). and from the bench an "spanish" PG (cabezas, jayson granger....)
and another inside player, center or PF, last days is rumoured about maric, but my favourite would be macvan (last year baskonia was close to sign him)

prigioni and teletovic signed NBA contracts. ribas is going to valencia and nocioni is close to resign.

No Heurtel? I thought he has contract for 3 more years What's the situation with him?

I think that CSKA will be the best roster again, what about shved and kirilenko? will go to the NBA?

The 1st one is leavin' for sure, while Kirilenko isn't decided his future yet, atleast he says so

 

[pohani komarac2]

Caja is looking to loan Huertel I think.

 

[jonga2]

yes, heurtel will be loaned.

 

[Basketball fan2]

something like this:

SG: causeur, oleson
SF: san emeterio, nocioni
PF: nemanja bjelica, milko bjelica
C: maciej lampe, tibor pleiss

Bjelica is a sf . Good team , if Caja can get some good pg I can see them as one of favorites for f4 .

 

[MrMojoRisin2]

Bjelica is a sf . Good team , if Caja can get some good pg I can see them as one of favorites for f4 .

You're kidding right? I doubt if I see them even as a serious contenders for TOP 16.

 

[Basketball fan2]

You're kidding right? I doubt if I see them even as a serious contenders for TOP 16.

No , if they get good pg they will be very good . I think Bjelica will play great and Lampe will be one of best Cs next season . They are lock for top 16 and could end up going to f4 .

 

[Terrorizer2]

Efes Pilsen, Partizan (sorry, I like your team but EL isn't a youth competition), Olimpija, Prokom, Cedevita, Besiktas, Zalgiris, Lietuvos Rytas (well, they are doing better internationally than Zalgiris and has some young perspective players but I think that it is not enough for EL), Chalon (yes, they are champs but there are better French teams), maybe Unicaja and Alba (if we're for some justice in our bball) to EuroCup. Instead of them upgrading to EL UNICS, Spartak SPb, maybe Lokomotiv Kuban, Valencia, Bilbao, maybe some other Spanish teams like Cajasol or even Joventut, Cantu, maybe Virtus Bologna or old names like Roma and Benetton Treviso (roster-wise they were still very good last season but I heard about big financial crisis in both teams which is a very sad thing considering these teams history and fame) and maybe some good team from Germany or France or even some new face like Nymburk or Donetsk who have solid rosters. That will be much more competitive and interesting but I guess that ULEB officials only interested in bribes and not in the development of European bball.

 

[Joško Poljak Fan2]

Well, I'm all against A licences and the way Uleb is treating various clubs, including the philosophy that has left Russian basketball on one club only for a whole decade... yet, euroleague with teams from only 6-7 countries, namely Spain, Turkey, Russia, Maccabi, Siena, Pao, Oly? That won't as well as should not happen.

 

[pohani komarac2]

Efes Pilsen, Partizan (sorry, I like your team but EL isn't a youth competition), Olimpija, Prokom, Cedevita, Besiktas, Zalgiris, Lietuvos Rytas (well, they are doing better internationally than Zalgiris and has some young perspective players but I think that it is not enough for EL), Chalon (yes, they are champs but there are better French teams), maybe Unicaja and Alba (if we're for some justice in our bball) to EuroCup. Instead of them upgrading to EL UNICS, Spartak SPb, maybe Lokomotiv Kuban, Valencia, Bilbao, maybe some other Spanish teams like Cajasol or even Joventut, Cantu, maybe Virtus Bologna or old names like Roma and Benetton Treviso (roster-wise they were still very good last season but I heard about big financial crisis in both teams which is a very sad thing considering these teams history and fame) and maybe some good team from Germany or France or even some new face like Nymburk or Donetsk who have solid rosters. That will be much more competitive and interesting but I guess that ULEB officials only interested in bribes and not in the development of European bball.

partizan over last few year (from my memory)...with unknown young players....top 16, top 8, top 8, ff, top 16, 1st round (competitive)....and you think they are not el level team?....(that's what i'm talking about billy...only club that actually stayd old school and are still only one doing good from former ex yu powerhoses)

nyburk actually played in adriatic league....finished something like 6-7th

 

[Terrorizer2]

Well, I'm all against A licences and the way Uleb is treating various clubs, including the philosophy that has left Russian basketball on one club only for a whole decade... yet, euroleague with teams from only 6-7 countries, namely Spain, Turkey, Russia, Maccabi, Siena, Pao, Oly? That won't as well as should not happen.

Yes, it would be bad for popularization of the game. I was proposing this having in mind current (very stupid, btw) format of competition. Cause I think that the best teams certainly should play in EL and that's a main point anyhow. But I think that upgrading number of EL teams to 32 won't radically weaken its level, maybe even the opposite if newcomers would be the teams from the leading championships. It's an optimal solution - countries with a good tradition but with their best players playing outside their respective leagues (Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Lithuania, maybe even BiH with Siroki Brieg or Latvia with VEF in perspective) still could have some representatives in EL but the best three European leagues: Spanish, Russian and Italian would be represented more fairly. I think it would be beneficial for both the level of competitiveness and the popularity of our beloved kind of sports.

pohani, about Partizan - yes, I have my doubts about them as they are not some kind of Prokom and have really decent results in the recent past but I'm talking about current situation. The last season they were weaker than always: only Macvan played like an elite player on that team with Pekovic coming back to NBA too soon and Acie Law being disappointment. Not only they didn't make it to Top 16 (they were competitive but still lost their place to hugely underperforming Milano) but Partizan didn't even reach Adriatic League finals and it's a tourney which Partizan was keeping on winning for five years in a row. In 2010/2011 they made it to Top 16 but on that stage weren't impressive with 1-5 record. They were a decent but undistinguished team that season which is illustrated by their roster with leaders like Jawai, Gist, Jerrells, Vesely and Lafayette - decent players but nothing really impressive except maybe Jawai if he is in his top form (which happens disappointingly rare). 2009/2010 was a real success and one of the most striking Cinderella stories in European club basketball before this season's Oly but just look what kind of players Partizan had at that moment: that team was led by Bo-Maric-Roberts trio and there aren't any players of that caliber in the current Partizan team (well, Westermann has a potential to become one but it's too early to decide on him). Previous season for Partizan was also successful but once again they managed to have a decent core of the players that time: Lasme (who is underestimated) - Velickovic - Tepic - Tripkovic - Rasic was a solid squad. And so on.
I don't see present day Partizan's roster comparable to any of those except for the last year's so I would be surprised if they will come up with that sort of performance. But if they actually do I would be happy Still I think that sadly Partizan took a degrading trend in its development - maybe it has something to do with the team's budget, maybe youth development kinda stalled last pair of years, foreign players' scouting definitely has become less successful but Partizan is becoming a weaker team than we get used to think of.

 

[Illegal2k102]

that would be plain stupid to replace Efes Pilsen, Partizan, Olimpija, Prokom, Cedevita, Besiktas, Zalgiris, Lietuvos Rytas with the teams like Unics, Spartak, Lokomotiv Kuban, Valencia or Bilbao. While Unics and Valencia quite deserved to participate in the EL, other teams are a waste, then the last time Spartak or Loko won anything? They cant even win the eurocup with ~15ml € budget. What kind of organisation is that?

 

[pohani komarac2]

that would be plain stupid to replace Efes Pilsen, Partizan, Olimpija, Prokom, Cedevita, Besiktas, Zalgiris, Lietuvos Rytas with the teams like Unics, Spartak, Lokomotiv Kuban, Valencia or Bilbao. While Unics and Valencia quite deserved to participate in the EL, other teams are a waste, then the last time Spartak or Loko won anything? They cant even win the eurocup with ~15ml € budget. What kind of organisation is that?

like i said i wouldn't mind if anything like this happens by fair spots results, but untlil 9th spanish or 5th german teams play el jist doesn't heve sense.

 

[pohani komarac2]

Still I think that sadly Partizan took a degrading trend in its development - maybe it has something to do with the team's budget, maybe youth development kinda stalled last pair of years, foreign players' scouting definitely has become less successful but Partizan is becoming a weaker team than we get used to think of.

Partizan last 2 years had Jovanovic as head coach, but Vujosevic is back

this roster + 2 leaders they are trying to find will be competitive for sure. It will maybe take them year of bad results, but Partizan did great job in off season

and team is not that young. players should be able to play at age of 23-20 with 2 leaders that they are trying to add

 

[Joško Poljak Fan2]

There are tons of options , but real life situations have the tendency to destroy any carefully crafted ranking system.
Just as in your example : Israel has better ranking then Lithuania , so result-wise Israel should have more ( or at least the same amount) clubs in EL then Lithuania . Both Zalgiris and L. Rytas deserved to be in EL ( Euro-players production, 10k+ arenas, results, fans' support, you name it) . Sport results ranking means giving EL spot to the second Israeli team, for the sake of fairness. The problem there is no such team yet.

The same could be applied to Israeli league and ABA for example: last season Maccabi alone produced more wins then all ABA teams together. Yet, I think that's it's better for EL to have 3 ABA Slovenian/Croatian/Serbian clubs then giving 2 extra EL spots to the clubs that aren't build ( budget, infrastructure - wise) to play EL.

Even if we add budgets & infrastructure to the ranking ( bye-bye sport results ) , still we have financial stability issues . Majority of clubs depend on external sources of money, so one decision of club owner/main sponsor and last year champion won't be able to survive , let alone be competitive next year.

My own conclusion that there is no magic ranking to include all real-world factors. At least not in a present state of matters with European basketball. Maybe in some distant future when majority of clubs will have stable break-even budgets and EL will generate enough money to share it with clubs ( like football Champions ), but not now.

You do have very valid points there, I just believe most of those could be neutralised through a better system with some regulations. Including some of those euroleague is proposing.
F.e. The example you're describing wouldn't happen at this moment as (correct me if I'm wrong) outside of Nokia arena most teams don't play in a 5k seated venue. Now if they did and could fulfill suitable EL financial fair play demands, enable TV broadcasts of their games etc. I've got absolutely no troubles with Israel getting two teams in euroleague (and neither should Uleb). There is no better thing that'd happen to Israeli bball, apart from raising new Kobe, Lebron of course than 2nd euroleague team.

I do expect FFP to influence on majority of those issues. If it'll include a guarantee for a budget just as in Spain, major sponsor dropping out before the EL season, making the team falling under the demanded f.e. 5 millions budget, they're out of EL, with the system whatever it'll look like anyway, replacing them with another competitive team from same or from other country that fulfills those standards.

I believe such fluid systems, with some help of course, evolve into generating money to the extent that can be shared with the clubs and we shouldn't be waiting as money generation would just come out of the blue as Uleb obviously believed to, for the past decade, it would as long as they keep the biggest towns in euroleague - that alone is not enough. In case AEK, Aris, Paok don't stand even a slight chance to qualify it's imo illusionary to expect PAO and Oly's TV rights would regulary increase on yearly basis as it mostlikely excludes sth. like 50% (just as example, could be more, might be less) of Greek bball fans only, fans that'd basicaly be hyped just by a chance to qualify there to the extent they would make a seriously big deal out of it, which Pao and Oly fans don't, at least not anymore as participating in euroleague is becoming a habbit instead of a thrill and ultimate desire for them.

@Terrorizer, I agree on majority of your post, all the way from 32 teams on... just that, I don't have troubles with a system where Partizan would lose a place in euroleague (in a fair competitive way; they'd get back pretty fast anyway) yet, I believe we both agree on this one, it has to have a chance to get back through some wider qualifications or some other way that clearly avoids dealing the el spots behind some desk, rather on court. Also, euroleague needs to open up instead of sticking to the same 10 ountries for the past two decades, there has to be some limit of at least some number of countries participating in EL, luckily Uleb understood that so far...

 

[Illegal2k102]

European basketball is not strong enough to handle a league based by pure results(we have football for it). Thats why they created some criterias for it, min budget of 5ml€, 10k arena, fan base(attendance). the wider range of countries are participating the better as long as they meet the criterias. league by itself do not need more than 4-5 teams from spain, or 2-3 from russia. the level of competition might increase a bit, but league would lose a wide range of fans and in the long run an intrest in basetball.

 

[Hot Spot2]

Unfortunately professional basketball in Europe cannot look only on results. Here is the latest example:

BC Donetsk probably will not be able to participate neither in the Euroleague nor in the Eurocup. Different from last season the Ukrainian Champion did not find an agreement with the Donetsk hockey club "Donbass" to share the "Druzhba" arena, which is the only big arena in town. "Donbass" this season additional to their games in the KHL needs the arena for the games of their 2nd team, which plays in the national league. The Arena already is booked out for 80 % (with even more exceptional hockey events and tournaments, too).

http://isport.ua/basketball/ukraine/news/209578.html

President of BC Donetsk in a very desperate open letter announces, that without an agreement, the Donetsk basketball club cannot survive.

I wonder, what Euroleague will do, if Donetsk retires. Look for a replacement according to the ranking? This would be Dutch champion Den Bosch (has even given back their place in the Eurocup) or VEF Riga. Ukrainian sources today announced, that Budivelnik Kiev has received an invitation for the Eurocup …

 

[villazzo2]

Hi guys , i follow Interbasket for a long time and finally decided to register to the forum.As you know we won 3 titles last year and this year we will play in EL. Today we got only 1 contracted player in the squad who named Can Akın a Turkish PG.We are looking for a sponsor to create a TOP 16 team but we can't find any sponsor yet because of debts.We are looking for the first home match with Partizan another Black-White team.I guess we will finish the group in third.