Comparison NBA - Euroleague

[Southpaw]

Childress was a bust in Europe and when he got back in the NBA he was much worse than he used to be, playing with the Hawks.

Bust? SMH.

How can you be a bust when you average 15 points and 5 rebounds and named to all Euroleague 2nd Team. You can lie but stats can not.

Maybe he struggled in his first year trying to adapt to the system but putting up those numbers in a strong team in his 2nd season, that's far from a bust unless your expectation was he is Jordan.

 

[Alvertis4]

If you do the math can you can tell me that after taking out the top 40 NBA players are you sure that top 60 players in Europe are better overall than the 41-100 players right now in the NBA.

what math do I need to do? Name me 60 NBA players that are not top 40 quality that are heads & shoulders better than at least 35 players in Europe and I'll take what I said back.

 

[DarkoMVP]

lol typical NBA fanboys... NBA has the top 40 players imo. Then it get's really one dimensional and Europe has overall better players than most NBA guys till 100.

what math do I need to do? Name me 60 NBA players that are not top 40 quality that are heads & shoulders better than at least 35 players in Europe and I'll take what I said back.

You're really changing your story. Before you were saying Euro players are "better" than 40-100, now you are backing up and only saying Euro players "aren't head and shoulders worse"

Going to back to your original claim, there are plenty of non-top 40 NBA players who aren't worse than Euroleague players e.g. Scola, Kirilenko, Batum, Gortat, Splitter, Fernandez, Krstic, M. Gasol, Gallinari, Deng, Noah, Bargnani, Ilyasova, Kaman, Pekovic, Dragic, just to name some players you might recognize.

 

[Southpaw]

You're really changing your story. Before you were saying Euro players are "better" than 40-100, now you are backing up and only saying Euro players "aren't head and shoulders worse"

Going to back to your original claim, there are plenty of non-top 40 NBA players who aren't worse than Euroleague players e.g. Scola, Kirilenko, Batum, Gortat, Splitter, Fernandez, Krstic, M. Gasol, Gallinari, Deng, Noah, Bargnani, Ilyasova, Kaman, Pekovic, Dragic, just to name some players you might recognize.

I was gonna name some of them but you beat me to it.

Anyway here are some players that rank outside 100 that people here might be familiar with.

120. De Juan Blair . Plying in Euro right now . 23 points and 11 rebounds first game.

134. Thabo Sefolosha - last played at Biella average 12 points 7 rebounds 2 steals

139 Mehmet Okur -played at Efes average 12 points and 7 rebounds.

142 Rudy Fernandez - played at DKV Joventut averaged 21 points

148. Jose Calderon - played at Tau Viloria averaged 13 points 3 assist 1.5 steal

149 Gary Neal - played at Benetton Treviso averaged 19 points 4 reb 2.1 steal

150 Leandro Barbosa - average 16 points 3 Rebs in 2010 FIBA.

153 Hedo Turkolu -

154 Omer Asik

158. Omri Casspi

161. Boris Diaw

166. Mickael Pietrus

174. Andres Biedrins

174 Josh Childress - average 16 points 5 rebounds at Olympiakos. Named to All Euroleague 2nd team

183. Rodrigue Beaubois-

186 Beno Udrih

197. Andres Nociani

199. Linas Kleiza - Euroleague top scorer. Named to all Euroleague First Team.

200. Carlos Delfino

201. Goran Dragic

206. Jonas Jerebko

218. Zaza Pachulia

226. Tiago Splitter - ha been named to Euroleague team 3 times.

228. Marco Belinelli

235. Ersan Ilyasova

248. Pena Stojakovic

306. Timofey Mozgov

310. Krylo Fesenko

315. Vladimir Radmanovic

329. Carlos Arroyo

336. Ian Mahinmi

348. Kosta Koufos

361. Semih Erden

370. Franciso Elson

373. Johan Petro

395. Nikola Pekovic

414. Pops Mensah-Bonsu

416. Alex Ajinca

423. Sasha Pavlovic

 

[Alyosha12]

Why does every damn thread about the NBA have to turn out into a NBA vs. Euroleague thread?

Anyway i agree. What separates the NBA with the Euroleague are the 2-3 top guys on most NBA teams. Players 4-9 are interchangeable with Euroleagues best players. Btw it is not me who thought that up, but Iseah Tomas. He said so in an interview. Players 10-14 are usually not good enough for the best European leagues. Ofcourse it depends on the situation the player is in. Some NBA player on one NBA team doesn't sniff the floor yet is good enough to be a contributer on another. Nobody will tell me that Splitter is not NBA starter material. Just like some Euro player is not good enough for one team but is an NBA talent. Ben Wallece comes to mind, when he played in Italy's second division.

Anyway IMO these are NBA players who have no counterpart in Europe:
Garnett, Kevin
Pierce, Paul
Rondo, Rajon* (not sure about this one though)
Williams, Deron* (although he is in Europe atm)
Anthony, Carmelo
Stoudemire, Amar'e
Iguodala, Andre* (am not sure)
Deng, Luol
Boozer, Carlos
Rose, Derrick
Jamison, Antawn
Granger, Danny
Bosh, Chris
James, LeBron
Wade, Dwyane
Arenas, Gilbert* (if he starts playing like Agent 9 again)
Howard, Dwight
Butler, Caron
Nowitzki, Dirk
Chandler, Tyson
Scola, Luis
Gasol, Marc
Gay, Rudy
Randolph, Zach
Okafor, Emeka
Paul, Chris
West, David
Duncan, Tim
Ginóbili, Manu
Parker, Tony
Beasley, Michael
Love, Kevin
Aldridge, LaMarcus
Roy, Brandon (only if he were Roy before the knee problems)
Wallace, Gerald
Durant, Kevin
Westbrook, Russell
Jefferson, Al
Kirilenko, Andrei
Millsap, Paul
Ellis, Monta
Gordon, Eric
Artest, Ron
Griffin, Blake
Bryant, Kobe
Bynum, Andrew
Gasol, Pau
Nash, Steve
Evans, Tyreke


OK so these are 50 players better then any player playing in Europe (as far as talent is concerned). But again, and this is the crucial part and i will put it in bold. Other players not mentioned (a few were simply forgotten ofc.) , the players who are 3rd-7th players on a given NBA team are good enough to be the go to guys on any or most Euroleague, Eurocup, ACB etc. team. They would be playing instead of guys like JCN, Langford, DD, McCalabb, FSE, Huertas, Teodosic etc. The players mentioned above however have no counterpart, and if they came over to play on Euroleague teams, the Euroleague would be a more talented and a beter league then the NBA.

 

[Alyosha12]

Also i will give another example to make my point clearer:

If you put Kobe, Pau, Bynum and Pau on lets say Barca. And you have a team of:
Huertas
Kobe
Pete Mickael/Artes
Pau
Bynum
Lorbek
JCN
Vazquez
Perovic
N'Dong
Eidson
Ingles
Sada

Do you honestly believe that team is not better then:

Artest
Barnes
Pau
Bynum
Kobe
Fisher
Brown
Ebanks
Odom
Walotn

If you do you are simply deluded.

Another example

A team of

Wade
LeBron
Bosh
McCalebb
Anderen
Lavrinovic
Summers
Kaukenas
Zisis
Moss
Stonrook
etc.

VS.

The super 3 friends
and the rest of Miam's sorry ass supporting cast.

If you really believe that Miami of 2010/2011 season would win, you probablly haven't seen more then 3 Euroleague games.

 

[Ciscorlie Horford]

Anyway IMO these are NBA players who have no counterpart in Europe:
Garnett, Kevin
Pierce, Paul
Rondo, Rajon* (not sure about this one though)
Williams, Deron* (although he is in Europe atm)
Anthony, Carmelo
Stoudemire, Amar'e
Iguodala, Andre* (am not sure)
Deng, Luol
Boozer, Carlos
Rose, Derrick
Jamison, Antawn
Granger, Danny
Bosh, Chris
James, LeBron
Wade, Dwyane
Arenas, Gilbert* (if he starts playing like Agent 9 again)
Howard, Dwight
Butler, Caron
Nowitzki, Dirk
Chandler, Tyson
Scola, Luis
Gasol, Marc
Gay, Rudy
Randolph, Zach
Okafor, Emeka
Paul, Chris
West, David
Duncan, Tim
Ginóbili, Manu
Parker, Tony
Beasley, Michael
Love, Kevin
Aldridge, LaMarcus
Roy, Brandon (only if he were Roy before the knee problems)
Wallace, Gerald
Durant, Kevin
Westbrook, Russell
Jefferson, Al
Kirilenko, Andrei
Millsap, Paul
Ellis, Monta
Gordon, Eric
Artest, Ron
Griffin, Blake
Bryant, Kobe
Bynum, Andrew
Gasol, Pau
Nash, Steve
Evans, Tyreke


OK so these are 50 players

i know this is just your opinion but the thing is I can make a list of 50 other players thaht IMO are betetr than half of those 50 you have there, and some one esle cna write down 50 otehr different names that he think are the best ins their opinion.

My point is it is not just 50 players that reparate the Euroleague with the NBA when a los of Americans play as import in the euroleage and do phenomenal there nad this players have never stepped a foot on an NBA court, and yes some of those are in fact nba caliber player that have never had the chacen to play there for different bad turns of fate and bad luck but other are just no that good to be nba player and yet they are at the very least stablished players some are super stars in the European Leagues or the Euroleague itself. Also a lot of Europeans that were the 10th or 14th man in an nba rotation are super star in the NBA.

Look at josh childress for example he didn't have a great carrer in europe even though he did have a good one (despite it being a little dissappoting) but he does not even come off the bench in the NBA. there are some player in the NBA that I woudl agree should be in the nba becuase they simply have no talent nad they were lucky thahta tey played for this or that coach or this or that University/College or thimply becuase they were danm tall, and this player would not make an Euroleague roster but if you are honest and objective we can all agree that those are very rare an special cases that you do not see very often in the NBA even though they happen every once in a while.

SO i woudl not say that what separated teh Euroleague and the nab is just the top 2-3 player from every team, in fact i don't think that what separate teh NBA and euroleague is relate to or cause by the nba, at least not directly, I think thata what separate the NBA nad teh Euroleague is the NCAA. And the government financed state of the art facilities that most universities there vae in order to for quite frankly te greatest pool of talent that any other conuntry can have a pool of talent so big that that have of the player in most professional leagues are a byproduct of it. A pool of talnet so big that it has made almost impossible t get to the NBA and demand from the players the greatest of sacrifes to get to the top because the distance to the top is so so so so so so so so long!

to the point that the gap between some one who is consider a top 5 player in the nba a someone who is a top 100 is so huge but that if you take that top 100 top 150 nba player to an european legaue he might be the best palyer there.

The one thing I do give to euroleageu is that some player that have teh chacne and talent to be in teh nba decide to stay in their countries for confort reasons and becuase it is more financially beneficial for them

 

[Alyosha12]

i know this is just your opinion but the thing is I can make a list of 50 other players thaht IMO are betetr than half of those 50 you have there, and some one esle cna write down 50 otehr different names that he think are the best ins their opinion.

My point is it is not just 50 players that reparate the Euroleague with the NBA when a los of Americans play as import in the euroleage and do phenomenal there nad this players have never stepped a foot on an NBA court, and yes some of those are in fact nba caliber player that have never had the chacen to play there for different bad turns of fate and bad luck but other are just no that good to be nba player and yet they are at the very least stablished players some are super stars in the European Leagues or the Euroleague itself. Also a lot of Europeans that were the 10th or 14th man in an nba rotation are super star in the NBA.

Look at josh childress for example he didn't have a great carrer in europe even though he did have a good one (despite it being a little dissappoting) but he does not even come off the bench in the NBA. there are some player in the NBA that I woudl agree should be in the nba becuase they simply have no talent nad they were lucky thahta tey played for this or that coach or this or that University/College or thimply becuase they were danm tall, and this player would not make an Euroleague roster but if you are honest and objective we can all agree that those are very rare an special cases that you do not see very often in the NBA even though they happen every once in a while.

SO i woudl not say that what separated teh Euroleague and the nab is just the top 2-3 player from every team, in fact i don't think that what separate teh NBA and euroleague is relate to or cause by the nba, at least not directly, I think thata what separate the NBA nad teh Euroleague is the NCAA. And the government financed state of the art facilities that most universities there vae in order to for quite frankly te greatest pool of talent that any other conuntry can have a pool of talent so big that that have of the player in most professional leagues are a byproduct of it. A pool of talnet so big that it has made almost impossible t get to the NBA and demand from the players the greatest of sacrifes to get to the top because the distance to the top is so so so so so so so so long!

to the point that the gap between some one who is consider a top 5 player in the nba a someone who is a top 100 is so huge but that if you take that top 100 top 150 nba player to an european legaue he might be the best palyer there.

The one thing I do give to euroleageu is that some player that have teh chacne and talent to be in teh nba decide to stay in their countries for confort reasons and becuase it is more financially beneficial for them

@ the bolded part

If you really can find 50 players who are better then half of the players i mentioned i will take your point. Go ahead i would really like to see you try.

You like to mention Childress as a bench wormer in the NBA yet in the season when he made the jump to the Euroleague he averaged almost 12pts and 5rbs per game. The year before he averaged 13 and and 6. Now do you really believe Chidlress is a bench wormer in the NBA? Seriously? He was in a bad situation in PHX because he had to compete with Carter, Richardson and Dudley for minutes. On a team like the Bucks for ecample he would be a starter and average probably identical numbers to his EL numbers or his Atlanta days numbers (buth were very similar).

On the other hand you have a player like Anthony Carter. In his last EL season he averaged 15 7 3. He was 30 at the time. In his next 2 NBA seasons he averaged 12.5 4 2 at age 32, which is well past his prime. He was almost just as good in the NBA as he was in the EL.

JCN in his first NBA season averaged 11 and 2. In his prior EL season he averaged 16 and 2. Not much better, considering his was the 3rd option in Memphis and theclear cut first option in Barca.

Scola in his last EL season averaged 15 and 6. This year with the Rockets in the same role he averaged 18 and 8.

But lets not only look at the premier players. Lets look at a guy like Dragic.

In his last season in Olimpija he averaged 9 3 3. In his last NBA season he averaged 7.5 2.5 2.5 in 10 less minutes of playing. So again not much worse.

And to the second bolded part. A top 100-150 NBA player is a regular rotation player. Which means he is a player 3-8 on any given NBA team. And yes exactly most 3rd or forth NBA options would be great EL players just as i said. They would be 1st and second options on EL teams.

My point is that players 3-8 on an NBA team = players 1 through 5 on most EL teams. 3rd options on NBA teams are Elite EL players (mostly) and 8th men in an NBA rotation are EL starter calibre players.

Believe me there have been many many many more 10th 11th 12th NBA players who tried to play in Europe and failed because they simply were not good enough, then there have been NBA players who didn't make it in the NBA and became stars in Europe.

 

[Ciscorlie Horford]

@ the bolded part

If you really can find 50 players who are better then half of the players i mentioned i will take your point. Go ahead i would really like to see you try.

You like to mention Childress as a bench wormer in the NBA yet in the season when he made the jump to the Euroleague he averaged almost 12pts and 5rbs per game. The year before he averaged 13 and and 6. Now do you really believe Chidlress is a bench wormer in the NBA? Seriously? He was in a bad situation in PHX because he had to compete with Carter, Richardson and Dudley for minutes. On a team like the Bucks for ecample he would be a starter and average probably identical numbers to his EL numbers or his Atlanta days numbers (buth were very similar).

On the other hand you have a player like Anthony Carter. In his last EL season he averaged 15 7 3. He was 30 at the time. In his next 2 NBA seasons he averaged 12.5 4 2 at age 32, which is well past his prime. He was almost just as good in the NBA as he was in the EL.

JCN in his first NBA season averaged 11 and 2. In his prior EL season he averaged 16 and 2. Not much better, considering his was the 3rd option in Memphis and theclear cut first option in Barca.

Scola in his last EL season averaged 15 and 6. This year with the Rockets in the same role he averaged 18 and 8.

But lets not only look at the premier players. Lets look at a guy like Dragic.

In his last season in Olimpija he averaged 9 3 3. In his last NBA season he averaged 7.5 2.5 2.5 in 10 less minutes of playing. So again not much worse.

And to the second bolded part. A top 100-150 NBA player is a regular rotation player. Which means he is a player 3-8 on any given NBA team. And yes exactly most 3rd or forth NBA options would be great EL players just as i said. They would be 1st and second options on EL teams.

My point is that players 3-8 on an NBA team = players 1 through 5 on most EL teams. 3rd options on NBA teams are Elite EL players (mostly) and 8th men in an NBA rotation are EL starter calibre players.

Believe me there have been many many many more 10th 11th 12th NBA players who tried to play in Europe and failed because they simply were not good enough, then there have been NBA players who didn't make it in the NBA and became stars in Europe.

you just repeated whay i said

 

[Alyosha12]

you just repeated whay i said

Yeah but you are missing the crucial point. JCN is a 3rd option on a good NBA team and a second on a bad. However some 3rd NBA option is on the same level as JCN, 4th NBA option is on the same level as 2nd in the EL 5th NBA option is 3rd EL option etc. That means that the difference in quality between the NBA and the EL is in the 1st and 2nd option on NBA teams and nothing else.

So my question to you is if you take all the 60 odd best NBA players and transplant them on EL teams, and leave NBA rosters without their star, all star and superstar players. Which league would be better. The EL or the NBA?

 

[gazzw87]

It's hard to compare NBA-Euroleague directly,there is so much difference and so on!

It's similar to the NHL-KHL/european icehockey argument really. For the most part the US based teams will always be 'bigger'. Better infrastructure and more money and probably a better fan base. But at the same time the NBA without its european players would NOT be the NBA that it is today. People will always argue "why do the euro teams over pay for NBA players" well why not, they are hugely popular and will sell jerseys/fill seats but the main thing is 'why does the NBA take all the top european guys' Im pretty sure the yanks wouldn't care if every NBA team was all american if they had enough good players to work it that way.

Bit of a rant, just my thoughts

 

[souly]

Nowitzky, Parker and Gasol would never dominate in Europe as in NBA (as Bodiroga, Kukoc, Navarro and Teodosic did) . the times are changing...

 

[rikhardur]

Nowitzky, Parker and Gasol would never dominate in Europe as in NBA (as Bodiroga, Kukoc, Navarro and Teodosic did) . the times are changing...

What makes you say that?
Gasol was the MVP of Copa del Rey and the ACB finals the season before heading to the NBA. He was also in Euroleague's second team. Who knows what he could have achieved if he had stayed in Europe...
Nowitzki helped Würzburg get to the German 1st division for the first time before going to Dallas. He was regarded as the best German player that year.
Look at Parker's stats this year with Villeurbanne in Pro A. He also had 34 + 5 + 5 in his single Eurocup game.

 

[Nikoo]

How can you say that after AK-47 went bananas in the Euroleague?

 

[souly]

i agree. think that 100 europeans can play overseas now...

 

[souly]

stats, stats, stats. they are really super players - they should played in ex Yu league. that's the biggest compliment for them. they are now one of the finest 10 European players ever, but in Europe...
they would never be legends as Drazen, Kukoc or Bodiroga.
today it's much easier for Europeans in the NBA. they come aged 20 and get 30-35 minutes.
if you love stats, than what would you say that Drazen (1985-1986) averaged 43pts in Euroleague and had average PR of 61 !!!
when he finally got in the NBA - he played 12!!! minutes per game in his first season (Nowitzky got 23, Gasoul 32, Parker 30)...

 

[Jeff23]

Euroleague teams playing their entire rosters and bench players major minutes - as much more in fact more than the NBA teams.

So apparently the NBA teams take the games as serious or more than the European teams. Oh and the Lakers wanted to win the game against Barca BADLY. Jackson was fuming and enraged when they lost.

They were playing their starters in the 4th quarter of the game and yet "they did not take the game seriously". Right.........

When the NBA wins the games "count as proof that the NBA is superior". When the Euroleague wins "the NBA didn't try".

When Team USA wins it is "proof that they are superior". When Team USA loses it is because "they did not try".

Like I said, the NBA only fans are all a joke.

Same exact logic MLS fans use when they talk about how the Kansas City Wizards beat Manchester United. Exhibition games don't mean anything.

 

[Alvertis4]

Same exact logic MLS fans use when they talk about how the Kansas City Wizards beat Manchester United. Exhibition games don't mean anything.

so you're basically saying that there's no way to compare the teams since they only face eachother in exhibition games.

Ignoring the fact that you're comparing FOOTBALL with BASKETBALL. In football, the "strong" team has youth academies and can field a lineup of 17 year olds. In basketball, the "strong" team just has a 15 man roster, the same guys that play in the NBA. Therefore, your argument is invalid.

This quote is one of the few times I agree with the member named FIBA Europe Basket.

When the NBA wins the games "count as proof that the NBA is superior". When the Euroleague wins "the NBA didn't try".

When Team USA wins it is "proof that they are superior". When Team USA loses it is because "they did not try".

Spot on.

 

[pohani komarac]

GOOD TEAMS

stars:

kobe, james, dirk, wade, paul... vs. diamantidis, navarro, krstic....

role players:

metta world peace(i just had to put this guy), terry, sefolosha...v.s bramos, kaimakoglu, sada

scrubs:
green, mahinmi... vs. artsur, carraretto....

Bad teams:
Love, Wall,...vs. Simon, Varda...
Rindour, McGee....vs, Masic, Muric...
Pekovic, Vesely...vs. Rothbart, Babic

there is your comparison. besides few exceptions that just confirm the rule, NBA is still ahed of Euroleague. Of corse it's not difrence it was in 70is or early 80is , but NBA is still ahed of Euroleague

 

[souly]

nonsense...
kobe is really good, CP; Howard and Lebron too, but Teodosić is better than 90% players in this list...

Why does every damn thread about the NBA have to turn out into a NBA vs. Euroleague thread?

Anyway i agree. What separates the NBA with the Euroleague are the 2-3 top guys on most NBA teams. Players 4-9 are interchangeable with Euroleagues best players. Btw it is not me who thought that up, but Iseah Tomas. He said so in an interview. Players 10-14 are usually not good enough for the best European leagues. Ofcourse it depends on the situation the player is in. Some NBA player on one NBA team doesn't sniff the floor yet is good enough to be a contributer on another. Nobody will tell me that Splitter is not NBA starter material. Just like some Euro player is not good enough for one team but is an NBA talent. Ben Wallece comes to mind, when he played in Italy's second division.

Anyway IMO these are NBA players who have no counterpart in Europe:
Garnett, Kevin
Pierce, Paul
Rondo, Rajon* (not sure about this one though)
Williams, Deron* (although he is in Europe atm)
Anthony, Carmelo
Stoudemire, Amar'e
Iguodala, Andre* (am not sure)
Deng, Luol
Boozer, Carlos
Rose, Derrick
Jamison, Antawn
Granger, Danny
Bosh, Chris
James, LeBron
Wade, Dwyane
Arenas, Gilbert* (if he starts playing like Agent 9 again)
Howard, Dwight
Butler, Caron
Nowitzki, Dirk
Chandler, Tyson
Scola, Luis
Gasol, Marc
Gay, Rudy
Randolph, Zach
Okafor, Emeka
Paul, Chris
West, David
Duncan, Tim
Ginóbili, Manu
Parker, Tony
Beasley, Michael
Love, Kevin
Aldridge, LaMarcus
Roy, Brandon (only if he were Roy before the knee problems)
Wallace, Gerald
Durant, Kevin
Westbrook, Russell
Jefferson, Al
Kirilenko, Andrei
Millsap, Paul
Ellis, Monta
Gordon, Eric
Artest, Ron
Griffin, Blake
Bryant, Kobe
Bynum, Andrew
Gasol, Pau
Nash, Steve
Evans, Tyreke


OK so these are 50 players better then any player playing in Europe (as far as talent is concerned). But again, and this is the crucial part and i will put it in bold. Other players not mentioned (a few were simply forgotten ofc.) , the players who are 3rd-7th players on a given NBA team are good enough to be the go to guys on any or most Euroleague, Eurocup, ACB etc. team. They would be playing instead of guys like JCN, Langford, DD, McCalabb, FSE, Huertas, Teodosic etc. The players mentioned above however have no counterpart, and if they came over to play on Euroleague teams, the Euroleague would be a more talented and a beter league then the NBA.