Who should have won the 1996 Euroleague title?

[GL3]

The truth people is that the theories talking about an accident are just about as plausible as the ones claiming is was the robbery of the century. And I mean that all the way: Proof is something that has not appeared here so everyone should feel free to analyse it his way. Everything I have read above makes sense to a certain extent.

I have to say however, that as a Greek but above all as a basketball fan I am so delighted that the biggest basketball star ever to walk on a European court won his first and only title back then. Even on paper as some of you assert.

Finally, Vrankovic' belief that he could run all the way back and prevent his team from losing against all odds is the reason why he is widely considered the best defensive center of all times in Europe. (A title that only Fassoulas and maybe Krumins can contest.)

[Captain CAAAVEMAAAAANNN!!]

Agreed with Franky13. If Montero had scored we would have the right to complain, we would have those whom referees were unfair with.

Really? Why? Barcelona won it fair and square, the refs stole them that bucket, it should have never happened, the clock was manipulated, it shoud have never happened. The competition was flagrantly distorted and the losers won.

[FRANKY 13]

Really? Why? Barcelona won it fair and square, the refs stole them that bucket, it should have never happened, the clock was manipulated, it shoud have never happened. The competition was flagrantly distorted and the losers won.

Again you probably didn t read what I wrote and what the neutral poster from Usa wrote at the end of page two.

IF a possession ends and NOBODY has possession , then the game STOPS.
Its a stupid rule , but thats the RULE.

Thats what happened in this game and it s undisputable. When the 30 secs of paos offense run out, nobody has the ball. Giannakis is down, the ball is loose, there are players of both teams hustling for it, the ball to end up in monteros hands.
So no , barcas basket shoudn t have counted. It would be the scandal of the century if it did. Stojans illegal block only prevented this scandal.

Barca should get a 4.9 sec last offense ( actually thats what happened , they got even more than 4.9, but I agree it doesn t count since barca players were confused, and weren t able to get advantage of those secs).

All in all , barca lost their opportunity to win the game. It s too bad and I recognize it, but talking about conspiracies, dark ages , games that should have been replayed is just laughable.

To my mind PAO was better in the whole game, I think they deserved the trophy.

[Captain CAAAVEMAAAAANNN!!]

I think you are confused with the rules.

1. In the first place, that Barcelona player is not “fighting for the ball”. He is taking directly from where Giannakis has left it on the floor, and when the video stops, with 5 point something seconds to go, he has already started to dribble towards the rim in a four-on-zero fastbreak. You might not know this, but when a player takes a ball from the floor, he is “in control” of it, and when a player dribbles a ball he is “in control” of it. Then, for whatever reason, he falls (they said Giannakis fouled him from where he was laying, but that’s not clear in the video and is irrelevant anyhow), but that’s in Barça’s possession, not Panathinaikos’.

2. It is true that, at that time (1996), if the 30second shot clock violation horn sounded, the game had to be stopped, even if it penalized the wrong team, and even if it sounded accidentally. (By the way, that doesn’t apply nowadays, when was the last time you saw a game?) because the horn (that sounds automatically when the shot clock is zero)determines the stop of the game and not otherwise. But the rule has its reverse, and it is that if the horn doesn’t sound there can’t be a 30 second shot clock violation. In this case, the horn didn’t sound (obviously, because a new possession had started) but even if that new possession hadn’t started, there couldn’t be a shot clock violation, because the horn has to sound for a shot clock violation to be whistled and for the game to stop. Nothing of the sort happened and the clock was stopped arbitrarily at 4.9 when Barcelona was going for the winning bucket.

[T.W.Is.M.]

I looked at the video of the last seconds several times in order 2 reach a conclusion. What I saw was that the clock stopped exactly at the moment that Montero touched the ball. I believe that regardless of the winner the officiating was bad at the last play and the losing team has every right 2 complain. With that being said, I will agree with Franky13 that if Montero had scored, Panathinaikos would have the right 2 complain.
If the horn didn't sound there was no need 2 stop the clock, as there was no shot clock violation. But on the other hand the 30 seconds, that PAO had in order 2 shoot, had expired and at that exact time Barcelona was getting possession.
It would b the easiest thing 4 me as a fan of Olympiacos 2 say "Barcelona was robbed, they deserved 2 win", but I won't say that. And I won't say that Panathinaikos won 100% fair. It looks complicated 2 me and the only thing I can say with certainty is that the ending was controversial and both teams were victimised by the poor officiating and handling of the clock.
4 the record, while watching the match I wanted Barcelona 2 win and it actually spoilt my birthday, but I got over it. The fact that FIBA eventually apologized 2 Barcelona says almost nothing 2 me. I c it as a late condolence and nothing more. It's just that the call against Barcelona(the "block" of Vrankovic) was more clear that any other possible rule violation and it caused FIBA 2 issue this apology.
Bottom line, Barcelona can still complain about that, so could Panathinaikos had they lost the game.

[Zachos]

I think that Barca simply continued its old loser tradition. If you cannot win with players like Epi, Noris, Corbalan, if you play a final and you face a team that you have crushed twice and you are almost always behind, if you have the greatest loser of Europe as a coach, the luck will not be on your side.

Thats it. It was Barcelona's curse. It was the hand of God preventing them from winning, because in the whole game they showed that they did not deserve to win.

Now the ''customers'' of Europe will be back for revenge.

[Captain CAAAVEMAAAAANNN!!]

Thats it. It was Barcelona's curse. It was the hand of God preventing them from winning

...handing the refs a suitcase of unmarked non-consecutive hundred dollar bills?

PS.-Corbalán is a Real Madrid player and won the Euroleague three times, actually.

[KWSN-Men]

...handing the refs a suitcase of unmarked non-consecutive hundred dollar bills?

PS.-Corbalán is a Real Madrid player and won the Euroleague three times, actually.

Yeah, Barcelona is a poor small club that doesn't have money...

PS: The money and bags thing just making you look like [Unnecessary: deleted]. Keep up the good work.

[Captain CAAAVEMAAAAANNN!!]

I looked at the video of the last seconds several times in order 2 reach a conclusion. What I saw was that the clock stopped exactly at the moment that Montero touched the ball.

LOL, I think that if you had watched a video with a referee killing Karnisovas with his bare hands you would still be saying both teams have the right to complain.
I don't know if you re watched another game by mistake but, in this one, Giannakis fumbles with seven seconds left. Galilea takes the ball with six seconds to go and starts running. When the clock stops at 4.9, (according with FRANKY 13's theory because of PAO's possession ending) Galilea has already realeased the ball. It's another Barça player that finally throws it to Montero who makes the winning bucket.

So, like I said, Barça had the ball before PAO's possession ended and the clock stopped. The play continued and something very bad that sometimes happens in sports occured.

That's it. It was a robbery and it is on tape. Case closed.

[GL3]

LOL, I think that if you had watched a video with a referee killing Karnisovas with his bare hands you would still be saying both teams have the right to complain.
I don't know if you re watched another game by mistake but, in this one, Giannakis fumbles with seven seconds left. Galilea takes the ball with six seconds to go and starts running. When the clock stops at 4.9, (according with FRANKY 13's theory because of PAO's possession ending) Galilea has already realeased the ball. It's another Barça player that finally throws it to Montero who makes the winning bucket.

So, like I said, Barça had the ball before PAO's possession ended and the clock stopped. The play continued and something very bad that sometimes happens in sports occured.

That's it. It was a robbery and it is on tape. Case closed.

Man I honestly do not get the point of presenting your arguments in such an arrogant and provocative way. Don't you see that this does not lead anywhere my friend...you're gonna be closing the case just as many times as others are gonna be reopening it i assure you. Anyway it's your choice.

[pohani komarac]

about shot clock and posession.

for me it is logical thing. in nobady's posession time if ball is still on court and gami is "live" clock still goes but not posession clock. or this rule was difrent back than? i was to young to remeber

[FRANKY 13]

Galilea takes the ball with six seconds to go and starts running. When the clock stops at 4.9, (according with FRANKY 13's theory because of PAO's possession ending) Galilea has already realeased the ball. It's another Barça player that finally throws it to Montero who makes the winning bucket.

That's it. It was a robbery and it is on tape. Case closed.

Ok , the ball goes to montero after the intervention of korfas. If you can t even admit that , then I cant help you.

About galilea, even if he grabbed the ball, I repeat the rule is that TWO PLAYERS of a same team have to get the ball in order to qualify it as a possesion.
So even if galilea grabbing the ball is debattable, the fact that he s the only barca player to touch it prior to montero is NON NEGOCIABLE.

Again every neutral fan that expressed his opinion stated that the ball between yannakis losing the ball and montero getting it is LOOSE.

you can open and close the case as many times as you want, it won t change the facts.

pohani komarac back then when a possession ended without a shot and the ball was LOOSE ( in nobodys hands ) , then the clock stoped , the horn sounded and the ball was given to the opposit team from the side.

the problem is here although the clock stopped according to the rules , the horn didn t sound.

[Zachos]

...handing the refs a suitcase of unmarked non-consecutive hundred dollar bills?

PS.-Corbalán is a Real Madrid player and won the Euroleague three times, actually.

Really? I thought Corbalan was playing in the 70s-80s and not in the 50s -60s when Real Madrid was winning Euroleagues.

I will ask my greatgrandfather and see if you are right.

[Forceps]

Really? I thought Corbalan was playing in the 70s-80s and not in the 50s -60s when Real Madrid was winning Euroleagues.

I will ask my greatgrandfather and see if you are right.

http://www.euroleague.net/history/50...6220/1609/item

"Corbalan helped Real Madrid take Euroleague titles in 1974, 1978 and 1980. He also added a Saporta Cup trophy in 1987 and a Korac Cup title in 1988 with Madrid. Corbalan also led Madrid to 12 Spanish League titles and captured silver medals at EuroBasket 1983 and the 1984 Olympics with the Spanish national team. "

[Zachos]

http://www.euroleague.net/history/50...6220/1609/item

"Corbalan helped Real Madrid take Euroleague titles in 1974, 1978 and 1980. He also added a Saporta Cup trophy in 1987 and a Korac Cup title in 1988 with Madrid. Corbalan also led Madrid to 12 Spanish League titles and captured silver medals at EuroBasket 1983 and the 1984 Olympics with the Spanish national team. "

Well, sorry for the historical inaccuracies. See, I was not born at that time. My living memories of Spanish teams lifting the cup are not very strong, so I understand that the 1996 PAO title must have hurt much. It was a rare opportunity.