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Thread: Best national teams for FIBA Top 15

  1. #21
    Senior Member Jokinen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Federoy View Post
    1. Argentina
    -2004 Olympic team
    -2002 World Championship team
    -2008 Olympic team
    About Argentina I think that the 2002 WC team played the most beautiful basketball, even better than 2004, Manu got injured in Semifinals and you know, that last call... they couldn't get the championship loosing in OT against Bodiroga and Co. but anyway IMO that was the best Argentina of alltime

  2. #22
    Administrator mvblair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokinen View Post
    About Argentina I think that the 2002 WC team played the most beautiful basketball, even better than 2004, Manu got injured in Semifinals and you know, that last call... they couldn't get the championship loosing in OT against Bodiroga and Co. but anyway IMO that was the best Argentina of alltime
    '02 and '04 had basically the same roster. Perhaps '02 played the most "beautiful" basketball (certainly in the eyes of US fans who enjoyed marveling at their first glimpses of Ginobili. We'd seen Nocioni, Pepe and Wolkowyski before. Then this Ginobili stormed on the court and destroyed all opposing defenses. The '02 team was successful because of their shocking athleticism.

    '04 had that athleticism and the defensive intensity that gave them the extra "umpf." A few of their players, like Pepe and Ginobili, put in two years in the NBA and left the league stronger and better. Scola also put in two more years in Spain and '04 included Herrmann, who might not have gotten many minutes, but played a wonderful, stout and strong game that summer.

    '02 may have been more beautiful because of the novelty and shock, but '04 was a better prepared team.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    Argentina 2004 vs. Argentina 2002

    2004 Roster
    Emanuel Ginobili
    Luis Scola
    Andres Nocioni
    Carlos Delfino
    Hugo Sconochini
    Walter Herrmann
    Fabricio Oberto
    Juan Ignacio “Pepe” Sanchez
    Ruben Wolkowyski
    Alejandro Montecchia
    Gabriel Fernandez
    Leonardo Gutierrez

    Coach: Ruben Magnano

    Serbia & Montenegro, 83-82, W
    Spain, 87-76, L
    China, 82-57, W
    New Zealand, 98-94, W
    Italy, 76-75, L
    Greece, 69-64, W
    United States, 89-81, W
    Italy, 84-69, W

    Record: 6-2
    Result: gold medal
    PS: 656 (82.0 APS)
    PA: 610 (76.3 APA)

    2002 Roster
    Emanuel Ginobili
    Luis Scola
    Andres Nocioni
    Fabricio Oberto
    Hugo Sconochini
    Ruben Wolkowyski
    Juan Ignacio "Pepe" Sanchez
    Alejandro Montecchia
    Lucas Victoriano
    Leandro Palladino
    Leonardo Gutierrez
    Gabriel Fernandez

    Coach: Ruben Magnano

    Venezuela, 107-72, W
    Russia, 100-81, W
    New Zealand, 112-85, W
    China, 95-71, W
    Germany, 86-77, W
    United States, 87-80, W
    Brazil, 78-67, W
    Germany, 86-80, W
    Yugoslavia, 84-77 (OT), L

    Record: 8-1
    Result: silver medal
    PS: 828 (92.0 APS)
    PA: 697 (77.4 APA)


    *= italics indicates roster change

  4. #24
    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    About Argentina I think that the 2002 WC team played the most beautiful basketball, even better than 2004, Manu got injured in Semifinals and you know, that last call... they couldn't get the championship loosing in OT against Bodiroga and Co. but anyway IMO that was the best Argentina of alltime
    Jokinen, the 2002 team is definitely worthy of praise. They played with great chemisty, passion and dicipline. Ginobilli was amazing in that tournament, and they have the dubious honor of being the first team to knock off a NBA-led US National Team (on their homecourt, no less), which is no small feat. And I'm willing to agree with you that the 2002 team looked and played better together than 2004.

    However, there are two main reasons why I didn't put 02 ahead of 04.

    1) Regardless of circumstances, 2002 came up short of being first by losing to Yugoslavia. Manu's injury and several questionable calls by the referees may have cost Argentina the gold, but rightly or wrongly, history judges the greatness of teams based on accomplishments, and unfortunately for the 2002 squad they failed to win gold. 2004 team won the gold medal which in my opinion gives them a slight edge.

    2) The level of competition was considerably more difficult in 2004 as opposed to 2002. The only quality victories Argentina registered in 2002 was against Germany, a decent opponent but not a great one. In 2004, they beat some great teams on their way to gold: the defending world champions Serbia & Montenegro, the hometown Greeks, the bronze winning Americans and the brillant, overachieving Italians. Even in defeat, they only lost to Italy by one point in pool play and were beaten by a quality Spanish team.
    Last edited by Federoy; 12-25-2008 at 06:38 AM.

  5. #25
    Dear Leader J-Mart's Avatar
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    IMO people are really overrating the PRNT 2004
    Beated the US, yeah, but besides that??


    Lost to Lithuania, Italy, Greece and beating Australia and Angola is not exactly an accomplishment.

    On the other hand...

    The 2002 NT beated Spain, Yugoslavia, Brazil, Turkey, even after suffering the absence of Casiano and Colon, the injury to Shariff Fajardo and the grueling schedule (every PR game was a hard fought physical fight except against Lebanon)

    4. Jose "Piculin" Ortiz
    5. Rick Apodaca
    6. Luis Allende
    7. Carlos Arroyo
    8. Jerome Mincy
    9. Christian Dalmau
    10. Elias "Larry" Ayuso
    11. Antonio "Puruco" Latimer
    12. Rolando Hourruitiner
    13. Felix Javier Perez
    14. Richie Dalmau
    15. Daniel Santiago


    Puerto Rico
    -1990 World Championship team
    -1994 Goodwill Games/World Championship team
    -2002 World Championship team

  6. #26
    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -K2- View Post
    IMO people are really overrating the PRNT 2004
    Beated the US, yeah, but besides that??


    Lost to Lithuania, Italy, Greece and beating Australia and Angola is not exactly an accomplishment.
    In 2004 Olympics in the start of the tournament PR NT was amazing, I mean not only results, but the quality of their play. Amazing win over US and really great performance against Lithuania. I don't know what happened later and why their playin' quality went down, but if they'd play like they did in the start, they could have reach high place in Athens, atleast they could beat Italy in quaterfinals for sure. Maybe they just reached the peak of their shape too early or smth


  7. #27
    Dear Leader J-Mart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindozas View Post
    In 2004 Olympics in the start of the tournament PR NT was amazing, I mean not only results, but the quality of their play. Amazing win over US and really great performance against Lithuania. I don't know what happened later and why their playin' quality went down, but if they'd play like they did in the start, they could have reach high place in Athens, atleast they could beat Italy in quaterfinals for sure. Maybe they just reached the peak of their shape too early or smth
    We were not as good as the 1st game made us look. For PR to stay competitive, Arroyo had to play 38 minutes per game, it took a toll on him. His backups were not adequate, Apodaca got injured, Piculin was not even the shadow of what he was, PJR was too young to be there, Reef Fajardo and Dalmau were there... a lot of things were wrong with that team. The defesive effor was not there, there was no rebounding.

    IMO, the 2003 team that won centrobasket and qualified to the olympics was a better one. they were on the verge of elimination, beated venezuela by 25 in a half, dominican republic, brazil, those 3 in straight days lost twice to USA (by 26 and by 16) and then abused Canada.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Jokinen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Federoy View Post
    Jokinen, the 2002 team is definitely worthy of praise. They played with great chemisty, passion and dicipline. Ginobilli was amazing in that tournament, and they have the dubious honor of being the first team to knock off a NBA-led US National Team (on their homecourt, no less), which is no small feat. And I'm willing to agree with you that the 2002 team looked and played better together than 2004.

    However, there are two main reasons why I didn't put 02 ahead of 04.

    1) Regardless of circumstances, 2002 came up short of being first by losing to Yugoslavia. Manu's injury and several questionable calls by the referees may have cost Argentina the gold, but rightly or wrongly, history judges the greatness of teams based on accomplishments, and unfortunately for the 2002 squad they failed to win gold. 2004 team won the gold medal which in my opinion gives them a slight edge.

    2) The level of competition was considerably more difficult in 2004 as opposed to 2002. The only quality victories Argentina registered in 2002 was against Germany, a decent opponent but not a great one. In 2004, they beat some great teams on their way to gold: the defending world champions Serbia & Montenegro, the hometown Greeks, the bronze winning Americans and the brillant, overachieving Italians. Even in defeat, they only lost to Italy by one point in pool play and were beaten by a quality Spanish team.
    Oh, yeah I just wanted to point that the 2002 gave the best show, and played better basketaball, but I agree with you and nobody can deny that the 2004 will be remembered as the best team mostly by the fact of winning a gold in Olympics and the strongest opponents.

  9. #29
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    I think that Greece in the 2006 WC had a far superior team than in the 2005 EC.

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