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Thread: Best national teams for FIBA Top 15

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    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    Default Best all-time national teams

    Given how wonderful this past Olympic competition was, I've been recently thinking about the THREE best national teams in the history of each country, or at least in FIBAs current top 15. Below are FIBA's current rankings, 1-15, and next to each country I've put the year and tournament that I believe have the top three best national teams in each country's history. My rankings are determined by four major components in no particular order:

    1) Significant achievements or competitive advancements
    2) Talent/Skill of players
    3) Level of play at a particular time. (i.e., some teams have a continuity of players year after year, such as Greece or Argentina, but that doesn't mean their success is the same in every tournament)
    4) Strength of competition

    Unfortunately, there's no perfect science to determining who's the best, especially when comparing different eras (say 1980 Yugoslavia vs. 2002 Yugoslavia or 1968 USA vs. 2008 USA), but I'm confident that after reviewing each team this is the best I could come up with. Some of you may agree with me, some may disagree. It's all subjective, so I'm interested in hearing the opinions of others.

    1. Argentina
    -2004 Olympic team
    -2002 World Championship team
    -2008 Olympic team

    2. USA
    -1992 Olympic team
    -2008 Olympic team
    -2003 Tournament of Americas team

    3. Spain
    -2006 World Championship team
    -2008 Olympic team
    -1984 Olympic team

    4. Greece
    -2005 Eurobasket team
    -2006 World Championship team
    -1987 Eurobasket team

    5. Serbia
    -1990 World Championship team (Yugoslavia)
    -1998 World Championship team (Yugoslavia)
    -2002 World Championship team (Yugoslavia)

    6. Lithuania
    -1992 Olympic team
    -2003 Eurobasket team
    -1996 Olympic team

    7. Germany
    -2005 Eurobasket team
    -1993 Eurobasket team
    -2006 World Championship team

    8. Italy
    -2004 Olympic team
    -1999 Eurobasket team
    -1983 Eurobasket team

    9. Australia
    -1994 World Championship team
    -1996 Olympic team
    -1988 Olympic team

    10. China
    -2008 Olympic team
    -2004 Olympic team
    -1996 Olympic team

    11. Puerto Rico
    -2004 Olympic team
    -1990 World Championship team
    -1994 Goodwill Games/World Championship team

    12. Angola
    -1992 Olympic team
    -1996 Olympic team
    -2006 World Championship team

    13. Turkey
    -2001 Eurobasket team
    -2006 World Championship team
    -1999 Eurobasket team

    14. New Zealand
    -2002 World Championship team
    -2001 Oceania Championship team
    -2004 Olympic team

    15. Russia
    -1988 Olympic team (Soviet Union)
    -1985 Eurobasket team (Soviet Union)
    -1994 World Championship team
    Last edited by Federoy; 12-21-2008 at 02:45 AM.

  2. #2

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    Err...Pretty subjective attitude.
    Well, Argentina may be the best international team in this decade but overall? I don't think so.
    I would even question Spain's priority against other European countries, but their recent big victories may be enough to rank them as strongest European NT.
    Greece over Lithuania and Serbia? I don't think so, though this a questionable thing. Serbia was champs of Eurobasket 2001 and had a lot of big victories in 90's. While Lithuania is among top4 olympic teams since 1992 (BTW, we won bronze in 2000 as well).
    PS: I think you overrate WC too much. To be honest, this competition is no way close to Eurobasket. Actually, Eurobasket is the most competitive tournament of all, it's just olympics has bigger international gravity

    Or did I get it wrong? You just wanted to find the "three biggest victories" of every country?
    Last edited by Straight forward; 12-15-2008 at 09:09 AM.
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    Senior Member Dtown's Avatar
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    For the US I'd say

    1992 Olympics
    1994 World Championships
    2008 Olympics
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    Senior Member kestas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward
    Err...
    the countries were listed according to FIBA rankings, so go complain to FIBA I like their rankings btw. to lead in this system is a huge achievement. sure, European teams have some sort of disadvantage because of a huge competiveness level in Eurobasket and enormous ranking points difference for Olympics and Worlds (fail to quallify and you lose a ton of points, while some Asian, South American or Oceanian states always go through), but otherwise it not that bad (could be much better though).
    And this is a good choice of teams, imho, although some teams are essentially the same (Spain 2006 and 2008, for example).
    stop russia

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    Senior Member rocketstar47's Avatar
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    ....argentina is the best,,also teams
    from europe like spain,russia,lithuania,greece,italy
    i doesnt include germany
    bcoz dirk is only heir main man..
    not all players cooperating....

    where is serbia now?

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    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    Or did I get it wrong? You just wanted to find the "three biggest victories" of every country?
    I think you misunderstood me. Kestas is right, I was ranking the best national teams for each particular country based off FIBA's current top 15. I wasn't endorsing FIBA's top 15.

    And this is a good choice of teams, imho, although some teams are essentially the same (Spain 2006 and 2008, for example).
    You're absolutely right. Some of the national teams I ranked essentially comprise the same core players, such as Argentina from 2002 to 2008. However, I rated them differently based on achievement, so for instance the 2004 Argentina team is rated higher than 2002 and 2008 because they won Olympic gold as opposed to taking silver at the 02 Worlds and bronze in Beijing.

    If you've noticed, most of the "best ever" rankings are national teams within the last 10-15 years with some exceptions. Today's national team players are stronger, faster, more skilled and are better coached than ever before, so my rankings reflect that. Could Yugoslavia's 1980 gold medal team beat their 1998or 2002 world championship teams? I think they'd make it a decent contest, but I doubt players from that era or earlier could keep up with today's players. It's just a different game now.
    Last edited by Federoy; 12-20-2008 at 06:18 AM.

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    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    For the US I'd say

    1992 Olympics
    1994 World Championships
    2008 Olympics
    While I certainly liked the 1994 WC team with Derrick Coleman, Shawn Kemp, Mark Price, Reggie Miller, Joe Dumars, Shaq and the rest of the bunch, I recently looked at some of their games I have on tape and after closer review they didn't play great team basketball, especially on defense. Granted, at that time in international basketball the US was so far ahead of the world talent/skill-wise that whatever deficiencies they had appeared non-existant. I often imagine how they would've performed against today's competition. They probably still would've had enough talent to win gold in Beijing, but I believe the situation would've been similiar to the 2000 Olympic team; struggling to win and not fully understanding or respecting their opponents. The 2008 squad understood what it took to win gold after 3-years of playing together as a unit and studying/disecting the formulas Greece, Spain, Argentina and Lithuania used to exploit them. That's why I put the 2008 team second only to the one and only Dream Team.

    Furthermore, as far as star power goes, the 2008 team easily has six or seven future/potential hall of fame players: James, Bryant, Wade, Paul, Williams, Kidd and Anthony. The 2004 squad largely featured a collection of solid, second tier NBA stars (with the exception of Shaq, Reggie Miller, and a faded Dominique Wilkins) that don't really stand out as NBA legends.

    Having said that, I respect your opinion if you think highly of the 1994 team. It was certainly a great team worth mentioning as one of the US's finest. The amazing outside shooting between Mark Price, Joe Dumars, Reggie Miller and Dan Majarle will probably never be seen again on a US national team.
    Last edited by Federoy; 12-20-2008 at 06:50 AM.

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    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    Top 10 US national teams (NBA era)

    1) 1992 Olympic team
    2) 2008 Olympic team*
    3) 2003 Tournament of the Americas team
    4) 1996 Olympic team
    5) 1994 World Championship team
    6) 2000 Olympic team*
    7) 2006 World Championship team
    9) 2004 Olympic team
    8) 2001 Goodwill Games team
    10) 2002 World Championship team

    * 2007 & 1999 Tournament of the Americas teams are extensions of the 2008 & 2000 Olympic teams.

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    Senior Member Dtown's Avatar
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    Part of the reason I show a little bias to the 94, team is part in part do to being a homer for the Detroit Pistons. Since Isiah got the snub in 92, it was great to see Joe D honored with an invitation.

    Actually looking back I confused the rosters of 94, and 96. Thinking Hakeem was on the 94 team. Prime or just leaving it Hakeem plus Prime Shaq is just an absolute lethal front court. Still with the shorter 3pt arc, there might not have been a better shooting squad than 94. The problem with the teams from 92-00 is it's hard to compare it to now, the international game wasn't as strong, and the teams could half ass it. It's scary to imagine if any of these teams got put through the same training as the Redeem Team.

    So yeah, putting my homerish notions aside, realizing Hakeem was on the 96 team. I'd change it too..

    1992
    1996
    2008
    with 1994 getting a honorable mention.

    I really loved the 03 roster, but it was hard to get a good feel for them with just the tournament of the Americas. There was Argentina of course, and maybe Puerto Rico but no stiffer competition for the tournament.
    Last edited by Dtown; 12-20-2008 at 10:51 PM. Reason: wanted to give a mention to the 03 squad
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    Senior Member PRSURF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtown View Post
    Part of the reason I show a little bias to the 94, team is part in part do to being a homer for the Detroit Pistons. Since Isiah got the snub in 92, it was great to see Joe D honored with an invitation.

    Actually looking back I confused the rosters of 94, and 96. Thinking Hakeem was on the 94 team. Prime or just leaving it Hakeem plus Prime Shaq is just an absolute lethal front court. Still with the shorter 3pt arc, there might not have been a better shooting squad than 94. The problem with the teams from 92-00 is it's hard to compare it to now, the international game wasn't as strong, and the teams could half ass it. It's scary to imagine if any of these teams got put through the same training as the Redeem Team.

    So yeah, putting my homerish notions aside, realizing Hakeem was on the 96 team. I'd change it too..

    1992
    1996
    2008
    with 1994 getting a honorable mention.

    I really loved the 03 roster, but it was hard to get a good feel for them with just the tournament of the Americas. There was Argentina of course, and maybe Puerto Rico but no stiffer competition for the tournament.
    In 03 was the fight of Tmac and Eddie Casiano, hehe.
    Originally Posted by -K2- View Post
    16 free throws in the last 4 minutes...
    Puerto Rico had 20 the whole game

    Seriosuly... someone quote this whole post and signature me... Greek Loby Rulz
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    Dear Leader J-Mart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRSURF View Post
    In 03 was the fight of Tmac and Eddie Casiano, hehe.
    that was not a fight
    That was Casiano trying to bully TMac

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    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    In 03 was the fight of Tmac and Eddie Casiano
    That Casiano had a nasty meanstreak. Didn't he get into it with the Chinese a few years ago during one of Puerto Rico's exhibitions? I maybe wrong.

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    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    I really loved the 03 roster, but it was hard to get a good feel for them with just the tournament of the Americas. There was Argentina of course, and maybe Puerto Rico but no stiffer competition for the tournament.
    I rate the 03 team high because the talent amassed on that team from top to bottom was probably second only to the original Dream Team. This roster represents some of the best NBA players over the last 10-15 years, with all the skill sets a team needs to succeed in international basketball: outside shooting, rebounding, size, quickness, true point guards and in-the-paint scoring.

    -Tracy McGrady
    -Jermaine O'Neal
    -Allen Iverson
    -Mike Bibby
    -Vince Carter (replaced Kobe Bryant, who was going through legal trouble)
    -Ray Allen
    -Tim Duncan
    -Nick Collison
    -Elton Brand
    -Richard Jefferson
    -Jason Kidd
    -Kenyon Martin

    Of course, talent doesn't equate to automatically finishing first, but I'm certain that if this roster were sent to Athens they would've stood a good chance of capturing gold.

    The competition level at the TOAM is a fair point. Blowing out the Virgin Is. by 50+ isn't a true barometer of the level of competition they would've faced in Athens. In fact, for all the firepower that team had, they still suffered defensively from some of the same issues previous teams had; they only beat Argentina 96-90 in pool play, so the threat of defeat existed even for that great team.
    Last edited by Federoy; 12-21-2008 at 02:47 AM.

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    Administrator mvblair's Avatar
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    Great thread, Federoy. Yes, it's subjective, but all lists are and it is fun to discuss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Federoy View Post
    1. Argentina
    -2004 Olympic team
    -2002 World Championship team
    -2008 Olympic team
    Agreed.
    2. USA
    -1992 Olympic team
    -2008 Olympic team
    -2003 Tournament of Americas team
    Agreed. We still tend to reminisce too much about '96, which was a team that got very lucky with the talent they had. '08 was much better. I think an argument could be made that '08 was better than '92 as well. I know that's blasphemous to suggest, but considering the extreme level of competition in Beijing, it's true in my opinion.
    5. Serbia
    -1990 World Championship team (Yugoslavia)
    -1998 World Championship team (Yugoslavia)
    -2002 World Championship team (Yugoslavia)
    Exactly what I would say. Yugoslavia '90 was one of the greatest teams in history.[/QUOTE]
    6. Lithuania
    -1992 Olympic team
    -2003 Eurobasket team
    -1996 Olympic team
    This is somewhat controversial considering '92 "only" got the Silver and was demolished by Team USA, but that was a fantastic team. Nevertheless, I think it's an accurate ranking.
    7. Germany
    -2005 Eurobasket team
    -1993 Eurobasket team
    -2006 World Championship team
    I'm going to disagree with you here. The '93 team was far superior to '05. Yeah, '05 had Dirk, and so did '06, but '93 had Schrempf, Welp, and Rdl, three of the great, forgotten players in '90s basketball. In my subjective opinion, those three fellows could've beaten '05's one-trick pony.
    10. China
    -2008 Olympic team
    -2004 Olympic team
    -1996 Olympic team
    Agreed, although I don't know a thing about the '96 team.
    11. Puerto Rico
    -2004 Olympic team
    -1990 World Championship team
    -1994 Goodwill Games/World Championship team
    The '04 team, with their incredible win in the warm-ups against the US, was clearly the best PR team. Arroyo, "Piculin" Ortiz, Casiano, Dalmau, Hatton...great individuals who learned how to play on a team for one single tournament. If the PR players could do that every year, they would be amongst the top 5 national teams every year.
    15. Russia
    -1988 Olympic team (Soviet Union)
    -1985 Eurobasket team (Soviet Union)
    -1994 World Championship team
    The '88 team was far superior to the other teams, but it is disingenuous to call them "Russians." That's an easy argument to make for a very complicated situation. If it were genuine to call '88 "Russian," I would say '88 and '85 ('85 is almost getting into the "pre-modern" era, though) are the best, but the '07 Russian team was much better than '94. The '94 team just wasn't very good. They didn't deserve the Silver. There were a half-dozen better teams that didn't get the lucky breaks Russia had in the draw. Anyhow, it's an easy team to pick on.

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    Senior Member PRSURF's Avatar
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    Best all-time national teams

    1)USA
    -1992 Olympic team
    -2008 Olympic team
    -2003 Tournament of Americas team

    2)Argentina
    -2004 Olympic team
    -2002 World Championship team
    -2008 Olympic team

    3)Russia/
    -1988 Olympic team (Soviet Union)
    -1985 Eurobasket team (Soviet Union)
    -1994 World Championship team

    4)Serbia/
    -1990 World Championship team (Yugoslavia)
    -1998 World Championship team (Yugoslavia)
    -2002 World Championship team (Yugoslavia)

    5)Spain
    -2006 World Championship team
    -2008 Olympic team
    -1984 Olympic team

    6)Lithuania
    -1992 Olympic team
    -2003 Eurobasket team
    -1996 Olympic team

    7)Greece
    -2005 Eurobasket team
    -2006 World Championship team
    -1987 Eurobasket team

    8)Italy
    -2004 Olympic team
    -1999 Eurobasket team
    -1983 Eurobasket team

    9)Australia
    -1994 World Championship team
    -1996 Olympic team
    -1988 Olympic team

    10)Puerto Rico
    -2004 Olympic team
    -1990 World Championship team
    -1994 Goodwill Games/World Championship team

    11)Croatia
    -1992 Olympic games team
    -1994 World Championship team
    -1993 Eurobasket team

    12)Germany
    -1993 Eurobasket team
    -2002 World Championship team
    - 2005 Eurobasket team

    13)France
    -2000 Olympic Games team
    -2006 World Championship team
    -2005 Eurobasket team

    14)Brasil
    -1990 World Championship team
    -1992 Olympic Games team
    -1986 World Championship team

    15)Turkey
    -2001 Eurobasket team
    -2006 World Championship team
    -1999 Eurobasket team
    Originally Posted by -K2- View Post
    16 free throws in the last 4 minutes...
    Puerto Rico had 20 the whole game

    Seriosuly... someone quote this whole post and signature me... Greek Loby Rulz
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    Senior Member PRSURF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvblair View Post
    11. Puerto Rico
    -2004 Olympic team
    -1990 World Championship team
    -1994 Goodwill Games/World Championship team
    he '04 team, with their incredible win in the warm-ups against the US, was clearly the best PR team. Arroyo, "Piculin" Ortiz, Casiano, Dalmau, Hatton...great individuals who learned how to play on a team for one single tournament. If the PR players could do that every year, they would be amongst the top 5 national teams every year.
    That game not was a warm up, that was a real official game bro, the first victory over a NBA team in the history of the Olympics games.
    Originally Posted by -K2- View Post
    16 free throws in the last 4 minutes...
    Puerto Rico had 20 the whole game

    Seriosuly... someone quote this whole post and signature me... Greek Loby Rulz
    8/29/2010...THE DAY WE GOT ROBBED!

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    Senior Member Federoy's Avatar
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    The '88 team was far superior to the other teams, but it is disingenuous to call them "Russians." That's an easy argument to make for a very complicated situation. If it were genuine to call '88 "Russian," I would say '88 and '85 ('85 is almost getting into the "pre-modern" era, though) are the best, but the '07 Russian team was much better than '94. The '94 team just wasn't very good. They didn't deserve the Silver. There were a half-dozen better teams that didn't get the lucky breaks Russia had in the draw. Anyhow, it's an easy team to pick on.
    That's a fair point. Politically it's difficult to argue that modern-day Russia and the former Soviet Union are one and the same. That 88 Soviet team featured more than just Russian players, so there is room for dispute if one wants to press the issue. However, I was trying to bridge the gap between those great Soviet teams of yester year and today's Russian national team. What does remain true is that the seat of government from the Soviet era (Moscow) remains for modern-day Russia, so on that basis, the republic still has a political connection to the past. The same can be said about Yugoslavia; past teams had Croats, Montenegrians, Bosnians and Serbs playing for the national team, so technically, modern-day Serbia is removed from its past also but its political seat (Belgrade) still remains.

    Actually, the 2007/2008 Russian team didn't impress me at all. I thought their run through the 2007 Eurobasket final was a bit of a fluke, and their disappointing Olympic performance was proof of that. After recently reviewing the 1994 team on tape, they were actually well drilled and performed great as a unit. I think you're underrating them a bit by suggesting they didn't deserve silver. They only lost two games, both to the US (by only 17 points in pool play and 46 in the title game). Also, they beat Croatia in the semi-finals, which most "experts" believed was the second best team in the tournament.

    At any rate, your thoughts are much appreciated.
    Last edited by Federoy; 12-21-2008 at 07:00 AM.

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    Moderator Mindozas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvblair View Post
    This is somewhat controversial considering '92 "only" got the Silver and was demolished by Team USA, but that was a fantastic team. Nevertheless, I think it's an accurate ranking.
    Don't know if I understood you correctly, but actualy Lithuania won the bronze in Barcelona'92 Maybe you mean silver, because the gold was reserved for USA already before the tournament, so other teams were participating only for silver as their top achievement, then it's ok As for semifinal, where Liths lost against "Dream Team" badly, to be fair, our team didn't try too hard, cause there were no chances to beat US what so ever. We just tried to keep our freshness before bronze medal game.
    Regarding Liths best teams, IMO 1992 was the best, but f.e. our team in Athens'04 Olympics IMO was even better in comparing with the team, which won EC'03, I mean more matured as a team or players individualy, especialy Macas. That team was just perfect in every single way and one game spoiled it all, that semi against Italy and their terrific shooting, if I'm not wrong they hit 18 3pts shots out of 28 or smth. The one of the most heart breaking games ever. I believe that Lithuania might win the gold back then. In group games we beat USA and played IMO one the best games in our bball history against Greece (atleast for a 3 qtrs it was the bball that was simply perfect). Still 4th place was simply undeserved and not fair place for that team. It was really painful to watch that semi even now
    Another LT NT that was great, but also one game took away from us probably atleast a medal, it was in 1999 EC. Sabas, Karnisovas + Zalgiris players, who won the Euroleague title that year, also young Saras. I remember how we beat Italy, which became champs later on, in second round of the competition, the win was so easy and great. And then came 1/4 and Spain... Poor game for Sabas and team generaly, only Saras few 3pts shots gave us hopes at the end, but still in last spaniards possesion we made a foul and Spain with free throws took the win by 2 points, Saras' last shot was missed. There was another big dissapointment in our bball history, neverthless we just trashed Turkey and Russia later and won a ticket to Sidney's Olympics.
    So there were atleast two teams, which IMO could make it to Top3 if they were more succesfull, cause bball's quality and the players, which played back then were great.


  19. #19
    Administrator mvblair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Federoy View Post
    Actually, the 2007/2008 Russian team didn't impress me at all. I thought their run through the 2007 Eurobasket final was a bit of a fluke
    Yes, it was a fluke, but it was an amazing fluke. It was like the Miami Heat in '06. I really don't think they were the best team that year, but they played amazingly well that final month and a half or so. Same thing with Russia in '07.
    ...and their disappointing Olympic performance was proof of that.
    Yes.
    After recently reviewing the 1994 team on tape, they were actually well drilled and performed great as a unit. I think you're underrating them a bit by suggesting they didn't deserve silver. They only lost two games, both to the US (by only 17 points in pool play and 46 in the title game). Also, they beat Croatia in the semi-finals, which most "experts" believed was the second best team in the tournament.
    I simply haven't watched the tournament besides the Gold Medal game, so I probably shouldn't be commenting.

    Quote Originally Posted by mindozas
    Don't know if I understood you correctly, but actualy Lithuania won the bronze in Barcelona'92
    Yes, I meant to say "Bronze."

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    In my opinion, Team Russia is underestimated.

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