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Thread: Turkish Prospects

  1. #501
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    A very fair and clear analysis of Alperen Sengun. Really I am 100% with him


    2021 NBA draft: Alperen Sengun has scouts vowing they won't repeat their Nikola Jokic mistake

    Nikola Jokic was selected 41st overall in 2014 largely because of question marks about his defensive upside, mobility and post-heavy style of play. Despite all 30 teams watching the 6-foot-11, 253-pound center fire no-look passes, spin past defenders and drop in scoop finishes against Karl Anthony Towns and Clint Capela for a week of Nike Hoop Summit practices, evaluators struggled to conceptualize how his game and body type would look in the NBA.

    Seven years later, Jokic is running through NBA competition on his way to an MVP award, and those questions are almost laughable in hindsight. As Jokic uses those same moves we saw back in 2014 against elite NBA centers such as Joel Embiid and Rudy Gobert, scouts and executives have become slower to dismiss the next wave of international big men with similar shortcomings.

    As one talent evaluator put it, "no one wants to miss on another Jokic."

    Enter Alperen Sengun.

    To call Sengun the next Jokic would be unfair to the ultra-productive, 18-year-old, Turkish big man and projected lottery pick. Jokic's feel for the game and creativity are rare. He was also given time to develop at his own pace with a draft-and-stash season in Serbia, and landed in an excellent situation with a Nuggets team that put the ball in his hands and allowed him to make plays. He's bigger, longer and had a more modern game than Sengun at the same stage. But the 6-foot-9 Sengun, who is in the midst of a record-breaking season for Beskitas in the Turkish League, is facing some of the same questions Jokic did about his frame, paint-dominant style of play and lack of foot speed. Yet Jokic's success, combined with Sengun's quick spins, post footwork and behind the back passes, figures to bode well for Sengun, since the NBA evaluation process is so often shaped by recent trends and player comparisons.

    "I watch Jokic, and I really want to play in the same style that he has," Sengun told ESPN through a translator after a practice in Istanbul. "Fadeaway, post moves. Generally, I study him. Some people say it's similar to Jokic's moves."

    Unprecedented production

    At this time one year ago, Sengun -- who was born in the small town of Giresun, Turkey, on the Black Sea -- wasn't viewed as a surefire NBA prospect. He weighed as much as 268 pounds at one point, heavy-footed defensively with a half-court game that lived mostly inside 15 feet. When I first evaluated him at the U16 European Championships in 2018, I wasn't sure what to make of him, as he lumbered up and down the court yet scored at will with a skill level well beyond his years.

    Once COVID-19 hit and put a pause on play, Sengun cut out sweets, started taking his training more seriously and trimmed down to 242 pounds. At somewhere between 6-foot-9 and 6-foot-10 with a wingspan nearing 7 feet, he is about the same size as Kevin Love was coming out of UCLA, though Sengun is a much more explosive leaper with his newfound frame.

    Alperen Sengun physical comparisons
    Player Height Weight Wingspan Age
    Alperen Sengun 6-9 242 7-0 18.7
    Julius Randle 6-9 250 7-0 19.5
    Kevin Love 6-9.5 255 6-11.25 19.8
    Domantas Sabonis 6-10 238 6-10.5 19.2
    Tyler Hansbrough 6-9.5 234 6-11.5 23.7
    "I have a more athletic body right now," Sengun said after watching a clip of himself finishing an in-game 360 dunk he wouldn't have even fathomed trying years ago. "That's why I have to try [to dunk], and I try everything."

    The never-bashful Sengun has a handful of poster dunks this season, showing off an improved leaping ability to go along with his already-stellar footwork, aggressive nature and outstanding touch. He dominated the Turkish league in his first season with Beskitas, averaging 19.4 points, 9.4 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.4 steals and 1.6 blocks while shooting 67% from 2-point range on a team that sits fifth in the standings.

    According to our historical database, no other 18-year-old has ever averaged at least 19 points, 9 rebounds and 2 assists over the course of a season in Europe. Dario Saric did so as a 19-year-old in 2014, but those figures came in the lesser Croatian League without the same level of efficiency. However, this shouldn't be confused with Luka Doncic's tearing up the Euroleague as a teenager. Even the biggest Sengun fans will concede Turkish League competition isn't what it used to be. With Beskitas clearly making an effort to showcase him, Sengun is allowed to play through mistakes more than a typical 18-year-old international prospect playing big minutes.

    Yet, as has been the case at virtually every stop of his young career, Sengun is producing at a high level with signature performances against respectable competition such as Fenerbahce and Jan Vesely (21 points and seven rebounds on nine shots) and Turk Telekom and Kyle Wiltjer and Sam Dekker (20 points and seven rebounds on nine shots). He also went for 24 points and 12 rebounds against Sweden during a senior national team game. Despite the level of the Turkish League being down, Sengun's production still stands out when compared to lauded international bigs before him.

    Pre-draft production per 40 minutes
    Player League Age
    (at draft) Pts Reb Ast Stl Blk TS%
    Alperen Sengun Turkish 18 27.1 13.1 3.4 1.9 2.2 70.2%
    Nikola Jokic Adriatic 19 18.3 10.2 3.3 1.2 1.5 56.7%
    Marc Gasol Spanish (ACB) 22 18.8 9.7 2.1 1.5 1.5 70.5%
    Jusuf Nurkic Adriatic 19 28.2 13.7 1.7 2.6 2.0 61.2%
    Ivica Zubac Adriatic 19 20.9 9.2 0.0 0.6 3.7 58.5%
    Ante Zizic Adriatic 19 20.9 12.5 0.7 0.2 2.2 67.9%
    Aleksej Pokusevski Greek 2nd 18 18.7 13.7 5.3 2.2 3.1 52.1%
    Georgios Papagiannis Greek 18 22.6 9.5 1.7 0.8 2.6 68.9%

    Paint dominance

    Sengun does most of his damage on the interior, whether out of post ups, rolls to the rim or by pounding the offensive glass, where he can carve out space thanks to his strong frame or crash from the perimeter for tip dunks with great timing.

    "I have an initial thing that I feel about rebounding," Sengun said. "Whenever they shoot the ball, I know where the ball will be. I follow the ball really well, and I feel it, it comes from inside."

    Sengun is corralling 5.8 offensive rebounds per 40 minutes, and his instincts on the glass rival that of Love at UCLA or Domantas Sabonis at Gonzaga. He ranks second among the top 100 in the class of 2021 in offensive rebound percentage, behind only North Carolina big man Day'Ron Sharpe. He'll tip rebounds to his teammate, or even secure one-handed boards like we've seen from Jokic.

    Beyond his work on the glass, Sengun is best operating 15 feet and in. He fights for deep post position and is already elite at spinning off of his defender as he feels him leaning in one direction or the other. He uses ball fakes, up-and-unders and scoop shots to deter rim protectors. Although not quick in a traditional sense, he's incredibly flexible for his body type, able to maneuver through tight spaces. While the natural comparison with those quick spins is Jokic, Sengun also has a lot of young Jahlil Okafor in his post-up attack. He plays off of face-up hesitations and spin moves like Okafor did in high school and at Duke, eventually palming the ball and finishing with contact. Sengun said he also studies old tapes of Shaquille O'Neal, along with Embiid, Sabonis and Jokic.

    Sengun is also a physical roller with some of the best hands I've ever seen from an 18-year-old. He catches everything thrown his way, isn't afraid to try to dunk on bigs at the rim and has the short roll touch shots necessary to neutralize NBA shot-blockers. With that said, at 6-foot-9, Sengun's paint dominance won't translate seamlessly to the NBA like it has for some 7-footers before him. The same moves that work against 33-year-old bigs such as Vladimir Stimac will likely be erased by Gobert, Embiid and Giannis Antetokounmpo. Sengun also shoots almost 10 free throws per 40 minutes thanks to a generous whistle he likely won't get in the NBA. At the very least, there should be optimism that Sengun could terrorize second units with his physicality and aggressiveness like we've seen from fellow 6-9 big man Isaiah Stewart this season. Creative teams could opt to experiment with him as a mini-Jokic off the bench, playing through him in the post once he becomes comfortable on an NBA floor.

    Modern qualities

    Sengun struggled in the game I scouted live in Istanbul -- his first contest back after battling COVID-19 -- posting a season-low nine points on 2-for-8 shooting. Even after watching all of his film and an individual workout, that performance didn't provide a full picture for how his game could translate to the NBA, so I flew back to Istanbul toward the end of my trip to see a two-hour practice and try to get a feel for whether or not he had more modern elements to his game than we saw on film.

    Turkish big man Alperen Sengun showing off his natural touch from 3 during an individual workout today. He hasn't shot many 3s this season but shoots 80% from the free throw line in Turkish League play and has excellent touch inside the paint. pic.twitter.com/BxPhCiZipX
    — Mike Schmitz (@Mike_Schmitz) April 16, 2021

    Watching him play 3-on-3, 4-on-4 and 5-on-5, Sengun handled the ball on the perimeter, splashed open 3s, threw no-look passes to open teammates and used ball fakes in the paint to create open shots. Sharing the floor for former collegiate standouts such as James Blackmon Jr (Indiana), Markell Johnson (NC State) and Joel Berry (UNC), Sengun was regularly the best player on the floor. Having also watched a full shooting workout on an off day, it became clear that Sengun, who is just 4-of-23 from 3 this season, will eventually make NBA 3s with relative ease, allowing him to play some as a power forward in two-big lineups, at least offensively. Sengun's 79% free throw clip is more indicative of the type of shooter he could become in time than his lack of 3s attempted this season. He doesn't lack confidence, either, as he splashed a step-back 3 in a senior national team game against Sweden.

    For as impressive as his skill level was, Sengun is still a bit wild as a decision-maker in practice settings. His teammates would make fun of him early in the year for trying his best Jokic impression only to turn what could be a basic pass into a no-look turnover. But the fact that Sengun isn't afraid to take risks bodes well for his upside as a passer, and his court vision is strong enough for him to potentially reach Sabonis' level as a facilitator in the right situation.

    Although most of Beskitas' talent lies on the perimeter, forcing Sengun into more of an interior role, he has the ability to eventually modernize his game as a floor-spacer, ball handler and passer, giving him considerable upside to grow into offensively. He doesn't get up and down the floor like most NBA bigs, and he clearly will be best-suited in more of a slow-it-down style, but the potential to shoot 3s and create for his teammates is all there for the skilled teenager.
    How will he defend?

    The biggest question Sengun faces is just how he'll defend at the NBA level. He's slow-footed on the perimeter and doesn't have the natural size to bang with the league's top-end NBA centers. He struggles to contain the ball in pick-and-roll. Players such as Jokic, Jusuf Nurkic, and Nikola Vucevic are all around 7 feet tall with big bodies and wingspans longer than 7-foot-2, allowing them to impact the ball at the rim due to their sheer size. Sengun's lack of interior size and speed guarding the perimeter might limit him to a backup role in the NBA, at least early in his career. With his physical traits the margin for error is thin, so becoming more sound with his technique, discipline and fundamentals is key.

    With that said, you can't ignore Sengun's remarkable instincts on the defensive end of the floor. Similar to Jokic, he has quick hands and does a tremendous job reading the eyes of the ball handler when defending pick-and-rolls, registering 1.9 steals per 40 minutes. His anticipation is elite, and he's a risk taker on the floor, for better or for worse. He also has really good timing for blocks, covering ground quite impressively.

    So, although how he fits defensively in the NBA remains a question, he has already shown instincts that are almost impossible to develop. While his physical shortcomings have him better suited for a bench role, as we've learned with players before him, we shouldn't dismiss those instincts when evaluating whether or not he can survive defensively in the NBA.

    Teams shouldn't draft Sengun expecting the next Jokic. But they should make an effort to learn from the mistakes that were made when evaluating Jokic: overvaluing physical traits and undervaluing the hands, touch, instincts, feel for the game and confidence to take risks. Sengun doesn't have Jokic's size, length or elite court vision, and there's much more of a track record for Serbian prospects than Turkish prospects. Coming from a small town in Turkey where learning English isn't always a priority, Sengun still speaks little to no English, which will surely elongate his transition to the NBA.

    But after watching him up close for several days and breaking down film with him, it became clear that his potential goes beyond that of a fringe NBA player. Years ago, the evaluation would have likely read: "Great for Europe." That was the thought heading into this season. as well, with Turkish power Fenerbahce heavy in pursuit. But his progression, along with the success of Jokic, is working in Sengun's favor. Of course, this can also lead to evaluation mistakes. Players such as Jokic and Luka Doncic are once-in-a-generation types of talents. We see this in other sports, too. Would Zach Wilson of BYU be the runaway No. 2 pick in this week's NFL draft if it weren't for Patrick Mahomes' success? Maybe not.

    But as teams head to Istanbul to start getting eyes on Sengun for the first time this season, it's time to start putting more stock in skill level and basketball instincts when determining upside, as that's clearly where the NBA is trending, with Jokic as the prime example.

    "I will do better in the NBA than here," said the ever-confident Sengun.

  2. #502
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    Jokic has a few inches in length and size on him. Those are crucial. He should compare himself to Kevin Love. If he can get a consistent 3 point shot he's basically Kevin Love 2.0 with better defensive instincts. And that's an allstar. So he should definitely focus on improving his shot and play on the perimeter, cause that's what his role in the NBA will be. Playing as mainly a low-post big will lead him to the bench or out of the league in a couple of years.
    Last edited by haribi; 04-30-2021 at 12:16 PM.

  3. #503
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    Lol I got a job offer from Turkey. They want to build a new basketball page with statistics and player analysis, game analysis etc. and they want to pay me for it hahahaha.

  4. #504
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    Turkish prospects Mert Akay 00 who played a good season in Serbia and Tarik Biberovic who shined in the Euroleague playoffs 01 anounced their participation to the NBA draft 21.

  5. #505
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    Alperen Sengün officially entered the draft 2021. He should be drafted around 13-18. Some people project him as lottery pick but his question marks are too big for that i suppose.

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    The Miami heat signing Turkish big man Ömer Yurtseven (98).


    Happy for him. I hope hell get his chance to prove himself. We have now officially 5-6 NBA players including Sengun who is a safe pick and Kanter. I dont count Kanter since he isnt available for the NT but I dont blame anyone who includes him as well.

  7. #507
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    My boi Omer with this white button shirt only needs a white hat too and he will look like a real Cuban cocaine king in Miami.

    Let’s hope that will find his right place in the Heat which is an amazing team with great coaching stuff and organization.
    Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa yaşa;
    Adın yazılacak mücevher taşa.

  8. #508
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    Arizona-transfer Tibet Gorener has committed to San Jose State, a source told ESPN. The 6'9 sharpshooting wing has four years of eligibility remaining. Helped Turkey win a silver medal at the U18 European Championship in 2019.
    Tibet changed the school after Sean Miller left Arizona... He really should start playing though. Arizona is a good basketball school and I really hope he put some muscles on him. Can hardly wait to see him in the U19 World Cup.

  9. #509
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    Cedi Osman is building a TB2L team with young youth league guys. The goal is to develop talented prospects. Cedi might not be a great guy but he really cares for the Turkish BB. Curious to see who he is gonna sign...

    https://www.basketfaul.com/haber?haber=94682

  10. #510
    Senior Member okanial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Cedi Osman is building a TB2L team with young youth league guys. The goal is to develop talented prospects. Cedi might not be a great guy but he really cares for the Turkish BB. Curious to see who he is gonna sign...

    https://www.basketfaul.com/haber?haber=94682
    What do you mean might not be a great guy? From what I've seen he is always been a upstanding guy.

  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by okanial View Post
    What do you mean might not be a great guy? From what I've seen he is always been a upstanding guy.
    I meant not very talented basketballwise thats all.

  12. #512
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    Eurohopes about Eray Büyükcangaz (04) in the ABA LIGA final 8

    Who was the top U17 player?
    Eray Buyukcangaz (’04) from Buducnost Voli and Nikola Djurisic (‘04). Buyukcangaz is a tall and long PG with an amazing basketball IQ. He has a bright future is in front of him.
    Djurisic is a strong, Euroleague type of SG who has all the tools to become a great basketball player. Needs to improve his shooting range.
    http://www.eurohopes.com/news/6327/u...l-8_full_recap

    Eray shot with 40% from the perimeter and contributed very well for his team being one year younger. He and Efe Tahmaz of Partizan (04) developing very well on the Balkan peninsinsula. The 04 generation of Turkey could really turn out to be the generation with the most upside.

    To mention some interesting names we have:

    PG:
    Eray Büyükcangaz
    Ege Tan Yildizoglu

    Forwards:
    Berke Büyüktuncel
    Yigit Hamza Mestoglu
    Efe Tahmaz

    These five guys with some sleepers have really talent to make it to the top European level at least. Especially our both guards are very very talented.

  13. #513
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    Demir Dogan is born in April 2006(not November).

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    On other hand, that's the guys who have 1999 Uleckas at 4th spot (had him even at 2)... Not to take anything away from Dogan which I didn't see him.
    Those rankings are of course trash. But the combination of skillset, offensive talent, feel for game + body and most likely future height of 210-215 will make him always one of the top talents of his generation. In reality he is a special talent, especially for turkish bb. We hope that he will be our Porzingis, Pokusevski, Wembanyama. He is already over 205 without shoes(not 203 or 200, or 180:-)), you must just watch his matches for the U15 NT and compare him to Mehmet Efe Demirel(05, C/PF, Efes), check the photos next to Emin Kara(06, C, Efes), Halil Ibrahim Aksoy(05, C, Besiktas) etc. then you will see how big he is.....

    Really good games from Eray Büyükcangaz. Best thing is, he is no more longer PG. This position is too difficult. Even in U16 NT he played most time as secondary ballhandler last year. SG/PG/SF is the best for him.
    In 2017 Eray Büyükcangaz was for me second best prospect of the turkish U13 championship. Best prospect was the PG Derin Mark Saran. Most dominant player was Atakan Karayaylali from Efes(now Tarsus). Eray was always big for his position therefore he has no problem to take his talent to the U16 level for example. Small players like Derin Mark Saran have problems with this. Even bigger problems have small and mature players like Atakan Karayaylali. This is the reason why everybody is looking for big kids for each position.

    https://www.tbf.org.tr/duyuru/16-yas...2021#gallery-1
    https://www.tbf.org.tr/duyuru/16-yas...2021#gallery-2
    On these photos we can see the U16 NT. Berkay Dönmez is on his way to become too big for SF/SG. Ata Özbek and Ali Oralkan are not much bigger as before 1 year. Tolga Öz is clearly bigger. Berkay Dönmez is better made for SF, Ata, Ali and Tolga for PF. No Mehmet Efe Demirel on the photos.

  14. #514
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    Cedi Osmans TB2L team is starting next season. Cedi Osman Academy teams coach will be Hasan Serbest (right of Cedi). The goal is to develop prospects. Will be looking close of how they do.


  15. #515
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    Here is our U18 roster for the summer challenge games in Europe.

    Kuzey Livaneli-Bahçeşehir Koleji
    Buğra Çal, Kerem Kuthan Konan, Oğuzhan Göktepe, Samet Yiğitoğlu, Uğur Efe Sezer-Beşiktaş JK Icrypex
    Baran Aslan, Eren Deniz-Fenerbahçe Beko
    Efe Mert Şekeroğlu-Galatasaray
    Ege Tan Yıldızoğlu-Mersin BBGSK
    Karahan Tuan Efeoğlu, Zekeriya Yiğit Tekin, Efe Vatan Orion-Nadir Gold İstanbul Basket
    Arda Duraklar, Emre Girgin, Mustafa Faruk Yerkazanoğlu-Ö.Gelişim Koleji
    Haktan Yavaş-Pınar Karşıyaka
    Berke Büyüktuncel-Tofaş
    Derin Mark Saran-Asheville School / ABD
    Eray Büyükcangaz-Buducnost Voli / Karadağ
    Efe Tahmaz-Partizan / Sırbistan
    Selimcan Paydaş-Saint James School / ABD

    Yiğit Hamza Mestoğlu-UCAM Murcia CB/ İspanya

    The team consist of many talented guys from the 2004 generation which means one year younger guys. Especially interesting is the guard rotation with

    Ege Tan Yildizoglu who had a good season in the third Turkish league against grown men
    Eray Büyükcangaz also had a good season with Buducnost

    Both have chances to be drafted.

    Yigit Tekin and Derin Mark Saran

    Also very curious about Partizan forward Efe Tahmaz and Murcia guy Yigit Mestoglu and Tofas forward Berke Büyüktuncel.

    Unlike the other generations the center position is fairly weak in this team but the forward and guard rotation is very good and deep.

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