European Clubs Financially No Worse Than NBA Clubs

[BorisD]

You are seriously saying it's better to lose $10 million than $5 million. OK

If you can't represent what I said fairly, then don't engage me on the subject.

[Richey666]

Basically it all comes down to the question: who is paying?

In USA mostly the fans (tickets, jerseys) and advertisers (TV income) are paying.
In Europe mostly the club owners and sometimes the ordinary taxpayers (local government support) are paying. Clubs dont earn much money from TV revenue or from fans. I guess there are some exceptions, like Maccabi.

The funny thing is, that while people here keep bragging, how the real fans are only in Europe (measured by noise the make and by the trouble they provoke), those hardcore fans are not really ready to turn their support into monetary one. Tickets are much more expensive in the States, while the arenas are bigger and they mostly get filled.

[FRANKY 13]

Basically it all comes down to the question: who is paying?

In USA mostly the fans (tickets, jerseys) and advertisers (TV income) are paying.
In Europe mostly the club owners and sometimes the ordinary taxpayers (local government support) are paying. Clubs dont earn much money from TV revenue or from fans. I guess there are some exceptions, like Maccabi.

The funny thing is, that while people here keep bragging, how the real fans are only in Europe (measured by noise the make and by the trouble they provoke), those hardcore fans are not really ready to turn their support into monetary one. Tickets are much more expensive in the States, while the arenas are bigger and they mostly get filled.

Believe me the hardcore fans (that usually are young people, students etc) pay everything they got to support their team.

Greek fans (wheter its pao fans or oly or whatever) pay trips to europe to support their team, that cost more than 500 euros each. PAO last year had nearly 1000 fans in italy against roma in a meaningless game.

I don t see any bulls fan travelling the USA ; paying 500 bucks, to watch a meaningless regular season game against the lakers.

Basketball player, loss depends on what you got. If you have 100 euros , then losing 50 is a disaster. It s half of your money. If you have 100 000 euros, then losing 1000 is meaningless. So yes sometimes losing 5 millions means much more than losing even 1 billion.

[L8DBACK]

Why do you think the owner of the Seattle SuperSonics move his team to Oklahoma (Oklahoma City Thunder) this year? Could it be that he was losing money and was not making any money

[KWSN-Men]

Basically it all comes down to the question: who is paying?

In USA mostly the fans (tickets, jerseys) and advertisers (TV income) are paying.
In Europe mostly the club owners and sometimes the ordinary taxpayers (local government support) are paying. Clubs dont earn much money from TV revenue or from fans. I guess there are some exceptions, like Maccabi.

The funny thing is, that while people here keep bragging, how the real fans are only in Europe (measured by noise the make and by the trouble they provoke), those hardcore fans are not really ready to turn their support into monetary one. Tickets are much more expensive in the States, while the arenas are bigger and they mostly get filled.

Yet again, a post from somebody living in a parallel universe.

[BorisD]

Believe me the hardcore fans (that usually are young people, students etc) pay everything they got to support their team.

Greek fans (wheter its pao fans or oly or whatever) pay trips to europe to support their team, that cost more than 500 euros each. PAO last year had nearly 1000 fans in italy against roma in a meaningless game.

I don t see any bulls fan travelling the USA ; paying 500 bucks, to watch a meaningless regular season game against the lakers.

Firstly, yes, you do see some fans who will travel to see certain road games of their teams. When I've been to Raptors' games I've seen fans from New Jersey, Milwaukee...a couple from Utah. Secondly, even if the number of fans who do that is more limited than in Europe, that's due to the cost of travel in North America which geographically is far more spread-out than Europe, and also because we get to see 41 home games per year not counting preseason and playoffs. So we get to see a lot of basketball and the TV programming for out-of-market broadcasts tends to be pretty good and readily available (unless you live in the Greater Toronto Area and subscribe to Rogers Cable ). So there's less importance ("meaningless", as you called it, and you've really got a good point) on single games. That doesn't mean that the devotion of NBA fans is lacking compared to European fans (nor vice versa), it's just that if a PAO fan goes to see a regular season Euroleague game, he's watching 10% of his team's schedule: if a Raptors fan goes to see a regular season game, he's watching less than 2% of his team's schedule. Obviously there's a gap in importance in regular season games. In the playoffs, fans go to far more away games.

[BorisD]

The funny thing is, that while people here keep bragging, how the real fans are only in Europe (measured by noise the make and by the trouble they provoke), those hardcore fans are not really ready to turn their support into monetary one. Tickets are much more expensive in the States, while the arenas are bigger and they mostly get filled.

It's certainly true that there are more basketball fans in North America than in Europe, but it doesn't mean that they're more dedicated fans. It's just that basketball has a more-established market in North America and appeals to more people.

However, what you say is true for certain markets. In Toronto, the Raptors have a very vocal and devout following, but not a huge one. Yet they sell out most games, although their TV ratings are abysmal...

[Basketball Player]

Basically it all comes down to the question: who is paying?

In USA mostly the fans (tickets, jerseys) and advertisers (TV income) are paying.
In Europe mostly the club owners and sometimes the ordinary taxpayers (local government support) are paying. Clubs dont earn much money from TV revenue or from fans. I guess there are some exceptions, like Maccabi.

The funny thing is, that while people here keep bragging, how the real fans are only in Europe (measured by noise the make and by the trouble they provoke), those hardcore fans are not really ready to turn their support into monetary one. Tickets are much more expensive in the States, while the arenas are bigger and they mostly get filled.

I have a friend in Milwaukee and I asked him some things about the state of the NBA team there. He tells me that the Bucks are having a lot of trouble trying to sell a bunch of tickets at $10 in the lower price seats and they have been asking the fans to help the club and buy the tickets. So how do you explain this?

[Richey666]

VS-666, you should really go to the better demagogy course than the one you went to. I understand that for some reason you have started blindly to attack everything NBA-related, but if you're so desperate, it's not gonna help your cause.
I talk about leagues in general and now you bring me one exception and ask me to explain it? There's your answer. By the way, dollar has started to creep up again, so next summer there may not be so many NBA-rejects in Europe anymore.

I have a friend in Milwaukee and I asked him some things about the state of the NBA team there. He tells me that the Bucks are having a lot of trouble trying to sell a bunch of tickets at $10 in the lower price seats and they have been asking the fans to help the club and buy the tickets. So how do you explain this?

[Joško Poljak Fan]

lmao... there can't be no comparison whatsoever... NBA clubs generate money while most european clubs are just eating it...

[Basketball Player]

VS-666, you should really go to the better demagogy course than the one you went to. I understand that for some reason you have started blindly to attack everything NBA-related, but if you're so desperate, it's not gonna help your cause.
I talk about leagues in general and now you bring me one exception and ask me to explain it? There's your answer. By the way, dollar has started to creep up again, so next summer there may not be so many NBA-rejects in Europe anymore.

Do you understand how the dollar is valued? Factually the dollar has not really made a creep up. Rather the Euro has declined. There is a quite huge difference. Then you have to understand why is the dollar higher against the Euro? Is it the same reason why the dollar dropped versus the Euro earlier? No it isn't.

In fact consider the case of the dollar and the yen why would it be the opposite particularly when Japan gets hit hard in their stocks and then ask yourself about how the yuan is valued. Simply put, the way the US economy is built the fact that credit froze is what helped the dollar, which in turn causes a big stock market dive and economic problems and job losses in the US and of course hurts other markets - which hurts the Euro because of bank and housing market. Which causes China to lose motive to undervalue the yuan.

If the US economy runs with credit on its casino capitalism design then the dollar drops. In other words - the US economy either dies or the dollar becomes useless. There will be mass devaluing of the dollar, huge inflation and of course there will be the disconnection of the yuan being undervalued.

This is painfully obvious.

[Richey666]

lmao... there can't be no comparison whatsoever... NBA clubs generate money while most european clubs are just eating it...

Gotta give it to you - it's the best post of this thread, which explains the whole situatioin clearly.

[Basketball Player]

As you can see SOME NBA teams are making a lot of money and some are barely making a profit, while 10 actually LOSE money. And there certainly is no "billions of dollars" in profits for these teams as NBA fans try to claim.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/32/nba08_NBA-Team-Valuations_Income.html

Rank Team Revenue ($millions)

1. Chicago Bulls $55.4 million
2. Los Angeles Lakers $47.9 million
3. Detroit Pistons $40.4 million
4. Houston Rockets $31.2 million
5. New York Knicks $29.6 million
6. Phoenix Suns $28.9 million
7. Toronto Raptors $27.7 million
8. Boston Celtics $20.1 million
9. San Antonio Spurs $19.0 million
10. Washington Wizards $14.9 million
11. Golden State Warriors $14.2 million
12. Cleveland Cavaliers $13.1 million
13. Los Angeles Clippers $10.7 million
14. Utah Jazz $8.8 million
15. Sacramento Kings $7.0 million
16. Atlanta Hawks $6.7 million
17. Orlando Magic $6.2 million
18. Milwaukee Bucks $5.4 million
19. New Orleans Hornets $3.2 million
20. Philadelphia 76ers $0.3 million
21. Portland Trail Blazers $-0.9 million
22. New Jersey Nets $-0.9 million
23. Miami Heat $-1.1 million
24. Memphis Grizzlies $-3.2 million
25. Charlotte Bobcats $-4.9 million
26. Minnesota Timberwolves $-5.7 million
27. Indiana Pacers $-6.5 million
28. Oklahoma City Thunder $-9.4 million
29. Dallas Mavericks $-13.6 million
30. Denver Nuggets $-26.3 million

[Carden]

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