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Thread: The PCCL Format Is Unfair

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    Default The PCCL Format Is Unfair

    I'm a bit confused about the real format for the PCCL zonals.

    In the following powerpoint presentation, it mentioned that there are no wildcard entries for the zone 3 games:

    http://www.collegiatechampionsleague.net/CCL%20FINAL%20-%2010Apr08.ppt

    In a more recent news article, there was mention that UC will be a zone 3 wildcard in Ormoc:

    http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/ceb/2008/10/11/sports/uv.shoots.for.cesafi.juniors.crown.html

    the slot for a school team from the host team seem to be taken away. AMA Computer Learning Center Ormoc Titans qualified as Region 6 champions and not entered as representative of host city Ormoc.

    My questions are:
    1. What is the final format of the zonals?(since it is obvious that changes were introduced compared to the one in the PPT link I posted above)

    2. Wildcard entries from Manila have to go through a qualifying round to determine wildcard entries in the different zones. Isn't it unfair to them that UC was afforded an automatic wildcard slot while they are not?

    3. How about non-aligned schools like Cebu's ACT Cyberknights and SIT Skyblazers? Seems like they were left out, and no chance to even get in as a wildcard. ACT has proven it can keep up with the top CeSAFI schools, they'd definitely rank within the top 6 college teams in Cebu the others being UV, USJ-R, USC, UC and SWU. At least they deserve a chance.

    4. In the past there were complaints of the PCCL draw not being fair and favors were given to those who had the right connections. It seems like this is happening again and it does not look good from a fairness perspective.

    5. It's also pretty unfair for CeSAFI to have 2 teams playing in 1 zone. Sana sa zone 1 or 2 na lang pinasok ang UC.

    6. It is also unfair for USJ-R to be challenged again by a team they have eliminated in the CeSAFI semifinals. IT was to our understanding already that whoever makes it through the CeSAFI finals earn automatic berths in the zonals at least and the CeSAFI champs an automatic PCCL slot. So basically, USJ-R earned that zonals right already by beating UC. Now USJ-R will have to beat them again to get to the Sweet 16. Isn't that "double jeopardy"?

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    Senior Member nardy's Avatar
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    Please note in reality this league is not a project of the SBP but a brainchild of Coach Joe Lipa with the Fil-Oil Flying V of the Villavicencio Group of Companies. It is actually an invitational which is only sanctioned by the BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas. So whatever the organizers feel what kind of format or seedings, it is their call since it is a invitational. The difference is that usual invitational pertains to specific teams but in this case invitations were made to the leagues.

    Even though the BAP group is estranged with the SBP, as I know it the official Nationwide Student tourney is the National Students Basketball Championship.

    But since it is established in 2002, they are trying hard to emulate the UEFA Champions League and US NCAA's March Madness. But we cannot argue that even in the UEFA and US NCAA there are some quirks of the seedings which makes the actual strongest teams facing each other earlier than the actual Championship.

    Well even though we want Life is to be in an ideal situation as Lewis said, the truth is ..... LIFE is UNFAIR

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    Quote Originally Posted by nardy
    Please note in reality this league is not a project of the SBP but a brainchild of Coach Joe Lipa with the Fil-Oil Flying V of the Villavicencio Group of Companies. It is actually an invitational which is only sanctioned by the BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas. So whatever the organizers feel what kind of format or seedings, it is their call since it is a invitational. The difference is that usual invitational pertains to specific teams but in this case invitations were made to the leagues.

    Even though the BAP group is estranged with the SBP, as I know it the official Nationwide Student tourney is the National Students Basketball Championship.

    But since it is established in 2002, they are trying hard to emulate the UEFA Champions League and US NCAA's March Madness. But we cannot argue that even in the UEFA and US NCAA there are some quirks of the seedings which makes the actual strongest teams facing each other earlier than the actual Championship.

    Well even though we want Life is to be in an ideal situation as Lewis said, the truth is ..... LIFE is UNFAIR
    look at the first link and the organizers actually claim this is the one "true" national championship..The NSBC is no longer recognized by the SBP top brass who even threatened a court TRO to stop it from happening last year

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    Quote Originally Posted by thadzonline
    look at the first link and the organizers actually claim this is the one "true" national championship..The NSBC is no longer recognized by the SBP top brass who even threatened a court TRO to stop it from happening last year
    Yup I agree the organizers is hyping the tournament as the one "true national championship" but what I am driving at is that even if the SBP sactioned the said tournament, the SBP did not actively participate in how the seedings should go or what is the final format. As of now, it is the group of Rey Gamboa who is deciding on all matters.

    Since they want to pattern the PCCL similar to the US NCAA National Tournament format, we now have the "Nationwide Power Rankings" which changes every week. But let's be clear that in the US NCAA even if there is a national ranking of teams, it is the NCAA Selection Committee which has the final say on who get's invited and what is the final seedings. So at the moment the equivalent of the said selection committee in the US NCAA is the group of Rey Gamboa in which Solar Entertainment's Basketball TV has a big influence.

    But Thadz, you have a good point and maybe in future PCCLs maybe the SBP should have more hand on the tournament and fine-tune the seedings so that it would be more fair to all participants. I think the SBP would be soon a major voice as just recently this August 2008 that SMART Communications and PLDT has become major sponsors of the tournament, unlike before where the Villavicencio Group of Companies is it's sole major sponsor.

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    Default Aclc

    It would be nice to see a Visayan School win it all but, nah it ain't gonna happen. It could be an Eagle or Archer or even a Lion atop the heap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordOfLeyte
    It would be nice to see a Visayan School win it all but, nah it ain't gonna happen. It could be an Eagle or Archer or even a Lion atop the heap.
    it would be harder for San Beda as they would be one player down, Pong Escobal would not be allowed to play since he is already a Professional in the PBA. The PCCL requires that the lineups used by the teams in their just concluded tournament seasons should be the lineup to be used in the PCCL. But obviously if SBP President Manny V. Pangilinan have his way, he would love to see the Red Lions of San Beda face the Ateneo Blue Eagles in the Championship. hehehe

    Official Site of the Philippine Collegiate Champions League

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    Power Rankings (latest)

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordOfLeyte
    It would be nice to see a Visayan School win it all but, nah it ain't gonna happen. It could be an Eagle or Archer or even a Lion atop the heap.
    If ever UV will go on and defeat their first round opponent, they are going to meet DLSU. can their guards survive the DLSU full court press?
    #parasabayan
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricodgame
    If ever UV will go on and defeat their first round opponent, they are going to meet DLSU. can their guards survive the DLSU full court press?
    UV has a decent backcourt, but a big part of why CeSAFI teams have not tried too much trapping this season is that big man in the middle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ricodgame
    If ever UV will go on and defeat their first round opponent, they are going to meet DLSU. can their guards survive the DLSU full court press?
    even though I'm a La Sallite in college, I do feel this year's Green Archers are as good as the previous years' teams. The vaunted Pumaren Press is not as effective as the time Arana-Cardona-Tang-Yeo where there for Coach Franz, Casio can't do it alone. But this team really overachieved this year but they could not get over the big hump which is the "Rabeh-Nonoy" tandem of Ateneo. In their games vs Ateneo, it showed they have a hard time matching-up with the big men of the Blue Eagles. With UV, still the bigs of La Salle would have difficulty in handling GS. I think on a very good game of Greg Slaughter and the UV Green Lancers they have a great chance of beating the DLSU Green Archers.

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    DLSU did have trouble containing ADMU's big men in the UAAP Finals. So if Slaughter is anywhere near as effective as Rabeh without travelling, then that could be one advantage UV could press on, if they do advance and get to face DLSU.

    On the other hand, UV will have to deal with DLSU's lean but fast and productive frontline of Maierhoffer and Mangahas. Barua, Webb and Villanueva are equally lean, but will also be helping out there in the frontline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhk111
    DLSU did have trouble containing ADMU's big men in the UAAP Finals. So if Slaughter is anywhere near as effective as Rabeh without travelling, then that could be one advantage UV could press on, if they do advance and get to face DLSU.

    On the other hand, UV will have to deal with DLSU's lean but fast and productive frontline of Maierhoffer and Mangahas. Barua, Webb and Villanueva are equally lean, but will also be helping out there in the frontline.
    Do hope Franz give this third-generation Webb more playing time. He could give them the muscle in the lane which was lacking in the last UAAP Finals. Villanueva really shows a lot of promise and could be a more explosive player. But I am sad that Rico did not become a "Arwind Santos" or a "KG Canaleta" as predicted, he seems to be timid the last 2 years. He was not that assertive and looks like to be more contended to be in the background. He showed a lot of explosiveness in his first 2 years which was we saw less in his next 2 seasons. Actually I see him playing even much dominant during the PBL games than the last 2 UAAP seasons.

    But if UV and DLSU do meet, it would be a game to watch. It would really test Boy Cabahug's coaching ability. An advantage I see is that a number Archers by the time of PCCL would have toughned-up more by the PBL competition since they are part of several teams there.

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    Default unfair?

    i guess the point of it all is to find out who's the champion of champions... the tournament already seeded the CESAFI, UCAA, NAASCU, and the CUSA champs along with the UAAP & NCAA finalists... so i don't see the point of USJ-R getting to the sweet 16, having to beat UC again, just to be drawn against a UAAP/NCAA finalist and sent home early. personally, i think it's those zonal matchups that will be more fun to watch. those sweet 16 games would either be blowouts or have the feel of a typical UAAP or NCAA game.

    Letran, Mapua, UE, and FEU should be able to place at least 2nd in their zones despite playing in the provinces... they will cause problems in the sweet 16 considering that the seeded teams just might be rusty playing their first game while those teams from the zonals would be playing 5 games in 5 days leading up to the sweet 16... it's also possible for sweet 16 matchups like DLSU-UE, ADMU-FEU, San Beda-Mapua, and JRU-Letran.

    the tournament dark horse is UV. they'll eventually have to go through DLSU (or their possible sweet 16 tormentors) to go far. DLSU doesn't have a legit big man while UV has Slaughter, but UV probably hasn't seen a 40-minute full court press and DLSU has a much deeper bench.

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    ACT deserves that chance to get in even as a wildcard. That team has proven it can compete with CeSAFI's top teams. And yes, they are capable of beating UC

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    Default Suggestions about PCCL format

    Suggestions to Philippine Collegiate Champions league format:

    It was rumble bracket, the higher seeder like SSC Cavite, MLQU those championships in other league as lower league
    who crushed by PCCL zone qualifier team especially NCAA/UAAP team.
    I remember that Letran Knights in 2006 NCAA who swept underdogs JRU Heavy Bombers the avg. of 15pts difference in that league when NCAA resumes before the PBA draft and then PCCL JRU crushed Letran by 26 w/o Boyet Bautista and Aaron Aban when after the draft/played in PBA.


    1.) PCCL Defending Champion, the league team champion should be like #1 priority seed in PCCL.
    2.) PCCL Defending runner-up, the league team runner-up should be the other bracket against PCCL defending 2nd runner-up
    3.) PCCL 4th placer should be bracket against #1 priority seed, when who lost in 3rd place last year. After losing in 3rd place would be
    face against PCCL Division 2 champion to qualify for Division 1 bracket as knock-out game. If it won, will go Division 1 bracket against
    #1 priority bracket. If lost, fall down to Division 2 as #1 priority seed.
    4. If the league(NCAA, UAAP etc. [like La Salle last year]) team doesn't want to participate in PCCL, the team automatically forfeiture in PCCL final 4. Their opponents automatically to PCCL finals.
    5.) If PCCL defending champion team/runner-up/2nd or 3rd runner-up has already eliminated in league (UAAP, NCAA, CESAFI etc.) nor did not qualify
    for league(UAAP, NCAA, CESAFI etc.) final 4 would not qualify for PCCL bracket. No wildcard & no chance.
    6.) The NCAA, UAAP, CESAFI, NCRAA, UCAA etc. eligible players must be still same in PCCL line-up even the player who picked in PBA draft.
    7.) The PCCL schedule should not run the PBA game.

    Last edited by rikhardur; 12-03-2008 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Threads merged

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    Hey Joel!' Where you have been? Welcome back...

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    Quote Originally Posted by alex15
    Hey Joel!' Where you have been? Welcome back...
    is joel one of those non-filipinos hanging out in the Philippine forums? his bad english is too consistent it doesn't seem he's faking it.
    Dead Lizard.

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    In actuality Pong Escobal and Kevin dela Pena was not disqualified by the PCCL. They were not allowed to play because they are now Professional players and in their contracts they are restricted from joining any other team outside their PBA team.

    I also agree with the decision of Coach Dindo Pumaren and Coach Norman Black not to allow some of their UAAP players to play in the PCCL. It is Ateneo team rule that a player must maintain a certain Grade Point Average in order to play, since a player is failing his subjects currently he should concentrate more in his academics. In the case of UE, why use players who are no longer enrolled as students. This is a Collegiate league championship, so those who should play must be students. And in the case of Chris Tiu and Simon Atkins, they could not be forced to play if they do not want to. Yes, we want the same key players in the mother leagues are to be used in the PCCL but there are circumstances that are beyond the PCCL's control.

    There was no changing of players, it only resulted on players on the team's mother league official line-up but used sparingly now has an opportunity to play and log game minutes.

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    I think the "unfair" format is on the seedings where league champs in NCR are outright seeded while Regional Champs actually go to the zonals before qualifying....why not all League and Regional Champs go to the zonals and avoid the outright seeding? It's the same as saying NCR Leagues are better than Regional Leagues, which is of course true but for a fair format, they should also consider the Regional Champs as automatic seeds. That's why in the US, there's always a first and 2nd round until the final 4 and none of the college teams are just waiting for other teams to qualify.
    SMART GILAS: all the way

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    Quote Originally Posted by bolabasket
    I think the "unfair" format is on the seedings where league champs in NCR are outright seeded while Regional Champs actually go to the zonals before qualifying....why not all League and Regional Champs go to the zonals and avoid the outright seeding? It's the same as saying NCR Leagues are better than Regional Leagues, which is of course true but for a fair format, they should also consider the Regional Champs as automatic seeds. That's why in the US, there's always a first and 2nd round until the final 4 and none of the college teams are just waiting for other teams to qualify.
    US NCAA has DI,DII and DIII leagues. teams of the same caliber play aginst each other. Regional league should that they are at par with NCR league like UV of cesafi to be seeded.

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