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Thread: Future Big Men Of Philippine Basketball

  1. #4221
    Senior Member Alex07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    You can't have it two ways, and say to FIBA respect our laws and not to use U16 Hagop rule, then our law states a parent has to be a citizen at time of players birth. So if we our self don't respect our laws and find loop holes around it, one then realises why FiBA has resorted to a universal rule that applies to all independent of each own citizenship rules. Otherwise any country can apply whatever they wish to suit their benefit and then it becomes simply a free agent best talent recruitment game. In that context bloodlines mean nothing
    I hope you know about the law first before commenting. RA 9225 actually is a step to be FIBA eligibility compliant and not an excuse or loophole to the rule.Again of course they have to re acquire the citizenship before the kid will become 16 years old.If the Parent(s) and the kid has already reacquired citizenship, then they may avail of the Passport (another proof of citizenship).

    For R.A 9225 FAQs: https://www.philippineconsulatela.or...ensh1p-ra-9225
    Last edited by Alex07; 06-13-2019 at 07:55 AM.
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  2. #4222
    Senior Member analyzed's Avatar
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    You misunderstood the point I was trying to make

    You can only reaquire citizenship if you previously had it or had rights to it, in many of the cases (3rd, 4th generation), the parents never had citizenship or rights to it to even begin with

  3. #4223
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    You misunderstood the point I was trying to make

    You can only reaquire citizenship if you previously had it or had rights to it, in many of the cases (3rd, 4th generation), the parents never had citizenship or rights to it to even begin with
    well of course if that was the case
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    The sbp and wild fanatics just need the discipline to stop supporting and pursuing fake pinoys. They may have impressive baller credentials and videos, but if they are not EAGER to barge into the dfa to secure citizenship, everything about them is just a waste of time and ibn poster pages.

    As it has become evident, tall and strong guards like pogoy can destroy an enemy team just by perfecting their 3point scoring through 2-3 hours of daily shooting practice. Veteran coaches like cone and austria will have serious difficulty with fiba-class 3point scoring teams, because such do not exist in college and pro leagues. Pinoys always love suicide guard japorms plays.

    Lots of mobile pinoys between 6'4 to 6'8. So the gap is for sbp-donor sponsorship for the athleticism building, score-spot selection and perfection, rebounding, and baller "smarts" for the most promising 12-24 SFs in that height range. Train them to work very hard on perfecting their craft -- as well as seamless bullet passing and assist sessions an hour a day -- and thats how you create the core that will power up the rise in fiba asia. The sbp eventually will learn how to stop paying attention to worthless social media rants, and to carefully design a team to perform at top 20 level as a minimum.

    It may not even occur to rabid pro-filam fans that capable young homegrown filfors like kouame, if he were age-qualified for the u19, would almost guarantee 2nd round passage for the current u19 nt. Kouame would shut down that francisco caffaro so loved by cocoy martin, and trigger a block party by a pinoy triple tower the u19 doesnt see often.

    Stopping the entry of worse-than-useless midgets was the first sbp step towards success. The 2nd involves the creation of an elite SF pool, who can swing down to sg or up to pf as the need arises. The 3rd is to get young promising 12-16 year old african boys,who want to be the best ballers they can be, to school here. That was always how you produce olajuwons and embiids -- or a kouame. These african boys factually get to speak pinoy and imbibe our culture much better than the swaggering foreign idols so loved by local posters. I'll pay to watch pinoy-supportive outsiders like blatche and kouame over false idols like green in pekpek shorts or some hawaiian non-pizza big anyway.
    Last edited by ccharmed; 06-13-2019 at 02:15 PM.

  5. #4225
    Senior Member Alex07's Avatar
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    there should be a law to fastrack the naturalization of refugees seeking permanent asylum.i think the senate has been working on this and it may be a good idea.Not only it is humane for those who are fleeing from war and armed conflict,it may also be a good thing for other sports not only basketball.This law should have a point system on who to admit and if they are an asset to the Philippines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by C2Hamm View Post
    if that is the case, one of his parents can reacquire PH citizenship and pass that to him. sounds simple but there is a process and will take time. no idea with the paperwork involved. maybe other forumers would have better knowledge on it.
    I'm not sure how complicated it is, looking at LA ph consulate's website, it a simple process if you have all the documents: https://www.philippineconsulatela.or...ensh1p-ra-9225. Haven't tried applying for dual citizenship, but I might try next year. Minors are derivative, meaning, they can be included in the application form when parents apply for the dual citizenship. hth

  7. #4227
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamokamo View Post
    I'm not sure how complicated it is, looking at LA ph consulate's website, it a simple process if you have all the documents: https://www.philippineconsulatela.or...ensh1p-ra-9225. Haven't tried applying for dual citizenship, but I might try next year. Minors are derivative, meaning, they can be included in the application form when parents apply for the dual citizenship. hth
    It's actually an easy process if one has legitimately the rights to reacquire Phil citizenship, the problem is majority of the talents identified really don't have the legitimate rigthts.. so we're forcing extra ordinary faciliation to make things right.
    Filipino fans really have to get their heads around this concept that citizenship has very little to do with ethnicity associoation but ultimately is based on documentary evidence to support claim. When a kid of Pinoy blood says he " CAN'T" play on the basis of lack of supporting paper in many case he really "CAN"T" legally, period !

    Of course the basis of rights to documentay citizenship evidence particulary in the Philippines is "partially" supported by parental relationship ( please note not ethnicity relationship), the thing is one's parent can have zero Filipino Ethnicity (like children of Marcus Doulthit) but have fully documentary evidence to rights to be a Filipino ( I'm assuming of things like Birth was when Marcus was a citizen already)
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  8. #4228
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    when we see a new kid of Philippine heritage the questions should be:

    1. Is he eligible (got passport before 16)

    2. Does he have legal basis to acquire a passport ( please note it does not follow that there is always a way)

    For all intent of purposes the acquisition of passport for many of our top players ( Blatche , Asi, Marcus, Clarkson, Norwood ) fall under " extra faciliation" exeption for "sports' beyond normal process. while all legal of course ..
    Note if all applied today , FIBA would classify them rightfully so as "naturalize" player!

  9. #4229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex07 View Post
    there should be a law to fastrack the naturalization of refugees seeking permanent asylum.i think the senate has been working on this and it may be a good idea.Not only it is humane for those who are fleeing from war and armed conflict,it may also be a good thing for other sports not only basketball.This law should have a point system on who to admit and if they are an asset to the Philippines.
    and this ... "The 3rd is to get young promising 12-16 year old african boys,who want to be the best ballers they can be, to school here. That was always how you produce olajuwons and embiids -- or a kouame."

    In all honesty the above steps are more consistent with a true reflection of the quality of basketball programs of the federation and the country. this JC recruitment stuff.. sorry to say but that really is no reflection of the quality output of our programs

  10. #4230
    Senior Member C2Hamm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    It's actually an easy process if one has legitimately the rights to reacquire Phil citizenship, the problem is majority of the talents identified really don't have the legitimate rigthts.. so we're forcing extra ordinary faciliation to make things right.
    Filipino fans really have to get their heads around this concept that citizenship has very little to do with ethnicity associoation but ultimately is based on documentary evidence to support claim. When a kid of Pinoy blood says he " CAN'T" play on the basis of lack of supporting paper in many case he really "CAN"T" legally, period !

    Of course the basis of rights to documentay citizenship evidence particulary in the Philippines is "partially" supported by parental relationship ( please note not ethnicity relationship), the thing is one's parent can have zero Filipino Ethnicity (like children of Marcus Doulthit) but have fully documentary evidence to rights to be a Filipino ( I'm assuming of things like Birth was when Marcus was a citizen already)
    it is easy if one of your parent was Filipino who just changed citizenship. Some Filos here in Sydney take their Australian oath in the morning and get their dual same day or same week.
    when the grandparent was the Filo and did not reacquire it anymore because of whatever reason (no reason before, too old, sick, etc) then it starts to become harder. the grandparent needs to reacquire to pass it on again.
    Douthit had a daughter before getting Filipino rights. I know there is a way to pass it to his daughter but I dont know if our laws looks at her as naturalized as well.
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  11. #4231
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    when we see a new kid of Philippine heritage the questions should be:

    1. Is he eligible (got passport before 16)

    2. Does he have legal basis to acquire a passport ( please note it does not follow that there is always a way)

    For all intent of purposes the acquisition of passport for many of our top players ( Blatche , Asi, Marcus, Clarkson, Norwood ) fall under " extra faciliation" exeption for "sports' beyond normal process. while all legal of course ..
    Note if all applied today , FIBA would classify them rightfully so as "naturalize" player!
    you cant give anyone a passport out of thin air well not unless if we are Qatar.Having a passport does not even have to be a requirement if the kid is not 16 years old yet.Thats what i wish the sbp could help tje family with,to provide legal help and produce the document before its too late.Given that scenario, of course it is obvious that the kid and parent have legal basis to re acquire citizenship.

    Another thing, a person may be deemed ineligible by Fiba but it does not mean they are not Filipinos.It's just that maybe they have not acquired the necessary docs on time.Remember,our laws say natural born citizens acquire citizenship at the moment of birth its just that they were not recognized at that time because they have failed to inform the embassy or they lack capability to do so or they do not know they could retain their citizenship(child however has to elect Filipino citizenship upon reaching the age of majority which will make him fiba ineligible or undergo derivative citizenship under ra 9225).

    Please do not make it sound that the Philippines have an unfair advantage because its actually a disadvantage for the Philippine.Unlike the other countries who have jus soli and jus sanguinis doctrine,we only have the latter,it's not as if we could change the constitution and the citizenship laws for some eligibility rules plus the fact that being a third world country does not encourage a very good number of migrants.Fifa has a different set of eligibility rules but nobody seems to care about it.
    Last edited by Alex07; 06-13-2019 at 11:36 PM.
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  12. #4232
    Senior Member ja.he's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C2Hamm View Post
    it is easy if one of your parent was Filipino who just changed citizenship. Some Filos here in Sydney take their Australian oath in the morning and get their dual same day or same week.
    when the grandparent was the Filo and did not reacquire it anymore because of whatever reason (no reason before, too old, sick, etc) then it starts to become harder. the grandparent needs to reacquire to pass it on again.
    Douthit had a daughter before getting Filipino rights. I know there is a way to pass it to his daughter but I dont know if our laws looks at her as naturalized as well.
    minor children born outside the philippines but before the naturalization of his parent is considered filipino citizen only during his minority unless he begins to reside in the philippines permanently.
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  13. #4233
    Senior Member analyzed's Avatar
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    Since we're talking purely about rights to citizenship not Filipino ethnicity. Yes I do classify all people who do not have rights to PH Citizenship as technically not Filipino regardless if they have Filipino blood (which isn't the point really)

  14. #4234
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Since we're talking purely about rights to citizenship not Filipino ethnicity. Yes I do classify all people who do not have rights to PH Citizenship as technically not Filipino regardless if they have Filipino blood (which isn't the point really)
    the problem is our constitution and our pertinents state otherwise. until there is an amendment to these and we finally adopt jus soli principle, by-blood principle will still govern the philippines. the framers as well as our legislators did it that way because we already have a very protectionist constitution and allowing dual citizens to be recognized as filipinos is purely economic in character.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ja.he View Post
    the problem is our constitution and our pertinents state otherwise. until there is an amendment to these and we finally adopt jus soli principle, by-blood principle will still govern the philippines. the framers as well as our legislators did it that way because we already have a very protectionist constitution and allowing dual citizens to be recognized as filipinos is purely economic in character.
    Correction, the complete law ( consitutution) includes

    - by blood relationship ( e.g. parent) not by same entnicity- which is different ( there is definitive difference between the two

    PLUS

    Additional legal requirements - ( e.g. Parent has to be a citizen at birth)


    To simply generalise that our consititution is simply " by blood " entnicity ( not family ) is actually very misleading and inccurate. it is NOT BLOOD ENTNICIY and neither is it "FAMILY assocation ALONE !
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  16. #4236
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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Correction, the complete law ( consitutution) includes

    - by blood relationship ( e.g. parent) not by same entnicity- which is different ( there is definitive difference between the two

    PLUS

    Additional legal requirements - ( e.g. Parent has to be a citizen at birth)


    To simply generalise that our consititution is simply " by blood " entnicity ( not family ) is actually very misleading and inccurate. it is NOT BLOOD ENTNICIY and neither is it "FAMILY assocation ALONE !
    when i say by-blood, i did not say by ethnicity. by-blood means blood relations. that means citizenship can only be acquired if one of your parents is/was filipino at the time of your birth. never did i say ethnicity. i never even mentioned about ethnicity and even the word "ethnicity".

    you just assumed it that i said that.
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  17. #4237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex07 View Post


    Please do not make it sound that the Philippines have an unfair advantage because its actually a disadvantage for the Philippine.Unlike the other countries who have jus soli and jus sanguinis doctrine,we only have the latter,it's not as if we could change the constitution and the citizenship laws for some eligibility rules plus the fact that being a third world country does not encourage a very good number of migrants.Fifa has a different set of eligibility rules but nobody seems to care about it.
    No one cares if say Korea or Lithuania has difficult citizenship laws to be competitive in hoops, so why would anyone care about us. All nations have their own individual things or obstables to deal with...we are not the victim or only one disadvantage here. We really have to change this mindset , thinking FIBA is singling us out and making things difficult , they're not! If we have issues with our laws or system stopping us from being more competitive , barking at FIBA and its rules isn't the solution. Let's deal with our "shit" no one else will.

  18. #4238
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    Quote Originally Posted by ja.he View Post
    when i say by-blood, i did not say by ethnicity. by-blood means blood relations. that means citizenship can only be acquired if one of you parents is/was filipino at the time of your birth. never did i say ethnicity.

    you just assumed it.
    OK, but it's not blood relations alone! that's incomplete. Our law never says that... there are other conditions...
    BTW even countries like Australia (jus soli) have pathway's to acquistion of citizenship via family relations... so it's really not accurate to say the reason for our problem is our laws are based on relationship blood and others are not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Correction, the complete law ( consitutution) includes

    - by blood relationship ( e.g. parent) not by same entnicity- which is different ( there is definitive difference between the two

    PLUS

    Additional legal requirements - ( e.g. Parent has to be a citizen at birth)


    To simply generalise that our consititution is simply " by blood " entnicity ( not family ) is actually very misleading and inccurate. it is NOT BLOOD ENTNICIY and neither is it "FAMILY assocation ALONE !
    The philippine constitution can always be amended by specific additional laws for acquiring citizenship. For example allowing guardianship aside from parentship as another way. Being raised by other filipino relatives including great-grandparents, or a permanent pinoy foster family, in the case of foreign minors, should be considered. Iyong drug pusher na killer nga may citizenship. Any proven good-character foreigner raised by pinoys should also be assessed as to whether they can help filipinos.

    Citizenship laws also need to be updated. As recently as 200 to 300 years ago, the fastest acceptable way to acquire citizenship was to rape, impregnate and murder the invaded or colonized citizens. That was how blood relationship was defined as the ability to draw blood from goodasdead natives. Nobody even questioned then the legality and morality of that kind of citizenship. There are even laws that allow economic and financial citizenship. For instance, you may be able to invest as a foreigner some usd5 million in a local company, which then allows fast-tracked processing of family immigration and citizenship. As mentioned earlier by another poster, refugees may also be granted citizenship.
    Last edited by ccharmed; 06-14-2019 at 01:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ja.he View Post
    the problem is our constitution and our pertinents state otherwise. until there is an amendment to these and we finally adopt jus soli principle, by-blood principle will still govern the philippines. the framers as well as our legislators did it that way because we already have a very protectionist constitution and allowing dual citizens to be recognized as filipinos is purely economic in character.
    Problem is if we change everything in our immigration laws would fiba give us the leeway and will not implement the age "16 rule", i dont think so.
    Still the best thing to do would be the aj edu route where we discover a willing fil-for family to let their kids to play for the flag before he turn 16.

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