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Thread: Future Big Men Of Philippine Basketball

  1. #4141
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamokamo View Post
    I don't know why we're so much obsessed with height. We basketball fans know that there are lots of 6 feet and under guards in the NBA, yet they excelled (or just be in the NBA line up is already an achievement in itself). I guess one of the problems with PH system is the failure to provide proper training and modern scientific approach to basketball skills development. Imagine if you have a TR who at his height can dunk and defend, I bet he has a chance to be in the NBA, just like the 5'11 guy from PR who burned us during WC. This lack of basketball development is also the cause why our guards can't even keep up with guards of NZ (OQT), AUS (WC qualifier), CH (U18), IR. Even the last WC most damage were done by guards of the opposing teams.
    We Pinoys are obsessed with height simply becoz we are naturally small/short, yet we are so obsessed with a sport that requires height/size.

    With what you're saying about a No. of NBA players 6-feet & under who had excelled or are excelling in the game, those players have extra-ordinary skills, speed & athleticism that make up or had made-up for their lack of height/size.

    For instance, Kiefer Ravena who is around 5-foot-11, is talented & smart. Question is, would that be enough for him to make it to the NBA?

    Chris Paul is as tall as Kiefer yet Chris is a legit NBA star point guard. Obviously, Chris Paul is more talented & quicker than Kiefer. Doon talaga nagkakatalo. Yung skill level ng mga players like Chris Paul, Kyrie Irving, Kyle Lowry eh subrang taas yan compared to our guards in the PBA.
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    Sometimes you have to stop watching uaap and pba games because they havent reflected fiba ball for decades. As in a nightmarish personnel department, some posters would like the SBP HR dept to test all the gazillion midgets who believe they are fit for fiba contests.

    Like a real personnel dept, the risk of possibly throwing out an untested good midger must always be taken. Why? Because excellent fiba slav guards -- a competition benchmark -- can range all the way up to 6'7-6'10, as with toni kukoc. And here we have millions of 5'9ish nonoys who havent played against 6'4 to 6'7 guards SUCCESSFULLY. We're not even talking about hyperathletic nba stars in fiba at all.

    This is why a smart coach would select a 6'4 dave ildefonso who at the very least can slow down PGs, SGs and even SFs in an emergency situation. I am really puzzled as to why pinoy coaches still consistently ignore the glaring fact that pinoy midget guards have had no history or athletic attributes for handling well elite fiba nt indo-aryan guards. Im sure some posters may have seen serbs, croats and slovenians play in their homelands. The best of nonoys and tenorios cant stop club guards there.

    An even more insane assertion --and past pinoy coach decisions -- is that 3-4 small PGs are needed as if fiba games are dribbling contests, instead of scoring, rebounding, blocking and assisting tests. Pinoy point guards keep pointing, instead of facilitating volume points production.
    Last edited by ccharmed; 06-05-2019 at 03:24 AM.

  3. #4143
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    its not impossible for the Philippines to produce 6'7 kids that are good enough to be on the NBA draft.Staying in the NBA will be something difficult.Let me take Justin Brownlee as an example,a person of his skills and caliber is a superstar in the PBA while he will struggle to be on an NBA team.As for 6'7 and above players,it is not impossible but likely improbable,Kai Sotto is an exemption and would be a one in a billion find kind of talent.Not unless we are going to encourage our tall athletes (Maybe in the case of Japeth,Junmar and maybe even Greg) to marry tall girls, we wouldn't see another local talent(with no foreign blood) in another 10-15 years.

    As for guards, height,length,skill and experience will always be the NBA's main concern and maybe the body type of the player(must be an NBA body).This is the position that we could likely produce however,we have yet to see a 6'2-6'5 talented point guard that can be as skillful at least as a Fred Vanvleet.The only problem I see is the degree of competition here.If a kid can go to the US as early as possible.
    Last edited by Alex07; 06-05-2019 at 05:12 AM.
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  4. #4144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex07 View Post
    its not impossible for the Philippines to produce 6'7 kids that are good enough to be on the NBA draft.Staying in the NBA will be something difficult.Let me take Justin Brownlee as an example,a person of his skills and caliber is a superstar in the PBA while he will struggle to be on an NBA team.As for 6'7 and above players,it is not impossible but likely improbable,Kai Sotto is an exemption and would be a one in a billion find kind of talent.Not unless we are going to encourage our tall athletes (Maybe in the case of Japeth,Junmar and maybe even Greg) to marry tall girls, we wouldn't see another local talent(with no foreign blood) in another 10-15 years.

    As for guards, height,length,skill and experience will always be the NBA's main concern and maybe the body type of the player(must be an NBA body).This is the position that we could likely produce however,we have yet to see a 6'2-6'5 talented point guard that can be as skillful at least as a Fred Vanvleet.The only problem I see is the degree of competition here.If a kid can go to the US as early as possible.
    You see in the Philippines, kids dont have individualized skills training like the one Kai is having right now in US. Players rely on team practice and team skills development but not specigic individual training. Heck even our PBA players dont have their own individual trainer. I think only Kiefer Ravena had individual skills trainer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sajubeads View Post
    You see in the Philippines, kids dont have individualized skills training like the one Kai is having right now in US. Players rely on team practice and team skills development but not specigic individual training. Heck even our PBA players dont have their own individual trainer. I think only Kiefer Ravena had individual skills trainer.
    meron naman but very limited.Here is one,i hope more skills trainers will emerge in the future

    "How small ball works: Tall Skilled beats small skilled every time,but small skilled beats tall stiff every time" - Kevin McHale

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamokamo View Post
    I don't know why we're so much obsessed with height. We basketball fans know that there are lots of 6 feet and under guards in the NBA, yet they excelled (or just be in the NBA line up is already an achievement in itself). I guess one of the problems with PH system is the failure to provide proper training and modern scientific approach to basketball skills development. Imagine if you have a TR who at his height can dunk and defend, I bet he has a chance to be in the NBA, just like the 5'11 guy from PR who burned us during WC. This lack of basketball development is also the cause why our guards can't even keep up with guards of NZ (OQT), AUS (WC qualifier), CH (U18), IR. Even the last WC most damage were done by guards of the opposing teams.
    I don't think sending a 12 Chris Paul will win a game in international tourney. In basketball, we should not take the word "small" literally.

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    Shea Ili is only around 5'11, he's never trained outside of NZ, but I don't see any guard in the Philippines whose at his level. (I know fans in the Philippines might disagree), but trust me people who know the guards from both countries well from neutral countries will say Shea is better, as evidence of this is the NBA Mavs have invited him for summer league etc, nothings really stopping any NBA team to invite any of the Pinoy guards (Jason, Romeo etc), I guess someone can blame it on conspiracy theories etc, note we're talking about an invite, not someone agreeing on a contract or anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by analyzed View Post
    Shea Ili is only around 5'11, he's never trained outside of NZ, but I don't see any guard in the Philippines whose at his level. (I know fans in the Philippines might disagree), but trust me people who know the guards from both countries well from neutral countries will say Shea is better, as evidence of this is the NBA Mavs have invited him for summer league etc, nothings really stopping any NBA team to invite any of the Pinoy guards (Jason, Romeo etc), I guess someone can blame it on conspiracy theories etc, note we're talking about an invite, not someone agreeing on a contract or anything.
    in all honesty, tall blacks guards are not really that TALL, ili (5'11), raukawa (6'0), kenny (6'0), and letoa (5'11). these are the guys that i know that played for tall blacks for the past 2 years in their point guard spot. i think they are alot shorter than chinese point guards but can withstand against taller opponents.

    IMO, the edge of nz point guards against gilas counterparts is the physical aspect. nz point guards are strong and can withstand taller opponents. remember, nz point guards are genetically mixed of caucasian and maori.
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  9. #4149
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    we lack the competition and the training but the latter can be easily resolved by certified trainers.

    The competition would be hard to resolve unless one would study overseas.In NZ they have the opportunity to compete against taller players in NZ sometimes with the frequent visiting Aussies,here you will only get to experience playing with taller players in the senior level playing against the taller locals and foreign players in the juniors the Sottos and the Tamayos are very rare most are 6'4-6'5 centers.

    if all Filipinos are at least 3-4" taller, the Aussies and tge Kiwis wouldn't be looking down much on the Filipinos.
    "How small ball works: Tall Skilled beats small skilled every time,but small skilled beats tall stiff every time" - Kevin McHale

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    Quote Originally Posted by ja.he View Post
    in all honesty, tall blacks guards are not really that TALL, ili (5'11), raukawa (6'0), kenny (6'0), and letoa (5'11). these are the guys that i know that played for tall blacks for the past 2 years in their point guard spot. i think they are alot shorter than chinese point guards but can withstand against taller opponents.

    IMO, the edge of nz point guards against gilas counterparts is the physical aspect. nz point guards are strong and can withstand taller opponents. remember, nz point guards are genetically mixed of caucasian and maori.
    Exactly, even if we produce 6'5 point guards, if physically, laterally, and technically we don't upgrade our training mentality, we will always be at a disadvantage. I guess its only a matter of time that these skills development trainers will mushroom around the country. Just one home grown Pinoy breaking into US NCAA Div 1 or NBA, these trainers will be in-demand! (Hoping for a Efren 'Bata' Reyes Jr. effect).

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamokamo View Post
    Exactly, even if we produce 6'5 point guards, if physically, laterally, and technically we don't upgrade our training mentality, we will always be at a disadvantage. I guess its only a matter of time that these skills development trainers will mushroom around the country. Just one home grown Pinoy breaking into US NCAA Div 1 or NBA, these trainers will be in-demand! (Hoping for a Efren 'Bata' Reyes Jr. effect).
    The rule of thumb is your local players need to have legit international size for their playing position and refined fundamental skill sets by the time they are 16.

    Let's look at the point guard position. If we want homegrown talent making it to Europe/US, they need to be in the 6'2-6'4 range with the right skills for a point guard.

    What's holding us back is that:
    - 6'2-6'4 guys are always designated as either shooting guards or small forwards.
    - They hardly develop any passing skills or possess proper court vision.
    - Our local point guards all want to become Steph Curry or Westbrook guards instead of CP3 or Rondo.

    I'm really hoping Panopio can at least get an offer from a Euroleague team when he is fully developed. The kid has relatively good size for a point guard and already has the skills.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ja.he View Post
    in all honesty, tall blacks guards are not really that TALL, ili (5'11), raukawa (6'0), kenny (6'0), and letoa (5'11). these are the guys that i know that played for tall blacks for the past 2 years in their point guard spot. i think they are alot shorter than chinese point guards but can withstand against taller opponents.

    IMO, the edge of nz point guards against gilas counterparts is the physical aspect. nz point guards are strong and can withstand taller opponents. remember, nz point guards are genetically mixed of caucasian and maori.
    Most, if not all, Kiwi PGs also play rugby as a second sport, adding to their overall toughness. Same thing with a lot of US players who play American football during the first semester and go into basketball during winter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerouac82 View Post
    Most, if not all, Kiwi PGs also play rugby as a second sport, adding to their overall toughness. Same thing with a lot of US players who play American football during the first semester and go into basketball during winter.
    Incidentally, a lot of the athletic pinoy cagers cross-train as well. For example, the Ravenas play volleyball (which explains their leaping ability). A lot of former and current FEU players also play volleyball (ex. Escoto brothers).

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulrenzo View Post
    Incidentally, a lot of the athletic pinoy cagers cross-train as well. For example, the Ravenas play volleyball (which explains their leaping ability). A lot of former and current FEU players also play volleyball (ex. Escoto brothers).
    Did they play as a player in UAAP, or just pick up games? Haven't read any news about them playing for their respective UAAP schools...Its interesting though, if that's true. Imagine if the both games happen at the same time, which one should you prefer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by interxavierxxx View Post
    The rule of thumb is your local players need to have legit international size for their playing position and refined fundamental skill sets by the time they are 16.

    Let's look at the point guard position. If we want homegrown talent making it to Europe/US, they need to be in the 6'2-6'4 range with the right skills for a point guard.

    What's holding us back is that:
    - 6'2-6'4 guys are always designated as either shooting guards or small forwards.
    - They hardly develop any passing skills or possess proper court vision.
    - Our local point guards all want to become Steph Curry or Westbrook guards instead of CP3 or Rondo.

    I'm really hoping Panopio can at least get an offer from a Euroleague team when he is fully developed. The kid has relatively good size for a point guard and already has the skills.
    My point here is, sadly, our 6'2-6'4 guys lack the attributes to be a point guard. We know that these players are trained as center growing up, thus, loosing their mobility before they reach their 20's. Why not develop a freakish 6'-under who already have the speed, agility, and athleticism (ala- T Wigness). To me these guys have a shot, instead of a 6'4 kid who you started converting to PG at age 16. I remember when Johnny A was 13 y/o, I overhead his coach saying, "Etong si Johnny, kahit sumakay pa yung dalawang bantay nya sa ere, di pa rin nila kayang I stop"). That how freakish Johnny was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamokamo View Post
    Did they play as a player in UAAP, or just pick up games? Haven't read any news about them playing for their respective UAAP schools...Its interesting though, if that's true. Imagine if the both games happen at the same time, which one should you prefer?
    Basketball is a first sem tournament, while volleyball is played in sexond sem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamokamo View Post
    Did they play as a player in UAAP, or just pick up games? Haven't read any news about them playing for their respective UAAP schools...Its interesting though, if that's true. Imagine if the both games happen at the same time, which one should you prefer?
    The Ravenas just played for fun I believe (though I heard rumors before that Kiefer tried out for ADMU's men's volleyball team). However, people like the Escotos were actually volleyball players in HS before converting to basketball.

    I only found that they played the sport when they were interviewed in a fund-raising event where they played the sport for charity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulrenzo View Post
    The Ravenas just played for fun I believe (though I heard rumors before that Kiefer tried out for ADMU's men's volleyball team). However, people like the Escotos were actually volleyball players in HS before converting to basketball.

    I only found that they played the sport when they were interviewed in a fund-raising event where they played the sport for charity.
    Pinoy volleyball does need more and bigger bryan bagunases.

  19. #4159
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    What you guys are saying is so true, the one area we are behind is producing good athletes ... atheles of the same height that are not disadvantage in the postion they play in , (example - 6' 1 PG or 6 5" wings) , more often than not our players of those heights who even attempt to play those positions are really inferior athletcially.

    If you look at the training video ( someone posted) it's talking about explosivness. for Pinoys it's not so much that they don't have the skill but they can't execute the same skill/move at a faster higher level and consistency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccharmed View Post
    Pinoy volleyball does need more and bigger bryan bagunases.
    Sorry ot, what if bagunas at 6'5 and espejo at 6'3 and other tall high leaping volleyball players try as pro dunkers? All they need is to be creative. But I guess they fear getting injured.

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