View Poll Results: Where will the "Boomers" finish in the 2008 Beijing Olympics?

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Thread: Australia NT 2008

  1. #21
    Senior Member g.g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kajacko
    i think our bigs are really competitive. what worries me is our guards. i still think we picked too many combo players and not enough pure specialists. i would have liked to have seen a pure point guard selected to go along with CJ and Mills and i'm thinking that adam gibson was the unluckiest player at selection trials to miss out.
    In our forwards i am still curious as to what role redhage and worthington will play... particularly behind the big front four of bogut, neilsen, anstey and anderson.
    The main problem with Australian bb as me and my europeans eyes see it, is that never allowed itself to create its own idendity. Every time I've seen Australia play over the last 20-25 years I would always conclude: here is another "Americanized" bb team. Basically the Australia bb has and still is trying to copy the US bb school. Problem of course is that it does not have the talent or depth, and never will (no other nation has anyway) to become something great. IMO Australian bb has stuck to a level and can't go any higher. perhaps the secret is what several teams that belong to elite nowadays have done by finding the bb style that suits them best and becoming masters on it, almost like creating a bb school. Take for example Lithuania, masters on long shots and 3p shooting. Spain, extremely fast bb almost like FF mode. Greece: "Everything starts from the defence", to beat them you have to break that defence. I know is more like a "philosophical" post but forgive me that's how I see it.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Picek's Avatar
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    that australian style worked on junior world championship..
    sure it was just a junior championship..
    but hey, spanish juniors are also playing the same style as their senior team, same with Greece and Lith's..
    the problem with Australia is that their players (guards in first place) are mostly playing in australian league..
    I'm not saying it is not a strong league but in order for their bball to arise they need to send their best to Europe where they would be able to play against tougher defences/players/teams and would therefore have more experience needed for national team..
    just take a look at their "bigs"?
    I don't see many teams having better "bigs" then they do on this OG..
    but both Nielsen and Andersen have been in Europe for years now while Bogut is an NBA player.. while out of there guards I can't remember one having a decent career in Europe or NBA in last few years..
    Newley is now in Greece and he will surely benefit from that but what about the others..
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Saskibaloia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvblair
    Saski, do you guys say "Go The Boomers" or "Go Boomers?"
    Either one.

    Quote Originally Posted by g.g
    The main problem with Australian bb as me and my europeans eyes see it, is that never allowed itself to create its own idendity. Every time I've seen Australia play over the last 20-25 years I would always conclude: here is another "Americanized" bb team. Basically the Australia bb has and still is trying to copy the US bb school. Problem of course is that it does not have the talent or depth, and never will (no other nation has anyway) to become something great. IMO Australian bb has stuck to a level and can't go any higher. perhaps the secret is what several teams that belong to elite nowadays have done by finding the bb style that suits them best and becoming masters on it, almost like creating a bb school. Take for example Lithuania, masters on long shots and 3p shooting. Spain, extremely fast bb almost like FF mode. Greece: "Everything starts from the defence", to beat them you have to break that defence. I know is more like a "philosophical" post but forgive me that's how I see it.

    I would have to disagree with you that Australia's style of basketball is "americanized". I have played in Australia my whole life and in addition, I have played basketball in Bilbao, Spain (I was an exchange student) and Montevideo, Uruguay (I was a teacher) and I can definitely say that Australia's style of play is closer to the European's style of fundamental team basketball rather than to the American's style of streetball, And1 Mixtape, individualism. A perfect example of Australian style basketball is in the Australian Sports Institution (AIS) where fundamentals and team-orientation are the mentalities that's preached. Sure enough due to the influx of American culture in Australia that some players do have that American flair in their game however, the majority of high level players in the national league or national team are more "European" in their style of play.


    Quote Originally Posted by Picek
    that australian style worked on junior world championship..
    sure it was just a junior championship..
    but hey, spanish juniors are also playing the same style as their senior team, same with Greece and Lith's..
    the problem with Australia is that their players (guards in first place) are mostly playing in australian league..
    I'm not saying it is not a strong league but in order for their bball to arise they need to send their best to Europe where they would be able to play against tougher defences/players/teams and would therefore have more experience needed for national team..
    just take a look at their "bigs"?
    I don't see many teams having better "bigs" then they do on this OG..
    but both Nielsen and Andersen have been in Europe for years now while Bogut is an NBA player.. while out of there guards I can't remember one having a decent career in Europe or NBA in last few years..
    Newley is now in Greece and he will surely benefit from that but what about the others..

    Though I support the national league in Australia I agree with you 100%. However, many of the players are not as fortunate enough like Anderson in being able to obtain a European passport. Some have been successful in obtaining an English or Irish passport such as former Boomer Paul Rogers who used his English passport to play 2 stints in the ACB.

    The European leagues are so much tougher than our leagues that's why some Aussie players that have European passports did make the jump to Europe once they got the chance such as Steven Markovic. I believe that the level in Australia would not compare against any of the top 6 leagues of Europe.
    Last edited by Saskibaloia; 08-01-2008 at 07:15 AM.
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  4. #24
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    Problem with this team is that it is too stacked in the 3, 4 and 5 positions. Australia are lacking a couple of quality guards to back up Bruton and Mills.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Saskibaloia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by each way
    Problem with this team is that it is too stacked in the 3, 4 and 5 positions. Australia are lacking a couple of quality guards to back up Bruton and Mills.
    I believe that the 1 spot is well covered by those two and that the big man department (4 & 5) is also well covered will former NBA player Chris Anstey, Euro League superstar David Anderson and his counterpart Euro League veteran Matty Nielsen and who could forget the "Bogey Man" but it is the swingman where the Boomers are exposed. Firstly, you have a couple of first timers in Shawn Redhage (actually in the Australian league the guy plays the 4 spot) and Mark Worthington (the last few seasons Coach Goorjian has been using him at the 4 spot due to his use of a quicker and faster lineup back in the days when he was the coach of the Sydney Kings) but my concern is that there is no defensive perimeter specialist to shut down the best offensive player of the opposition. Australia in the past used to have such a role player (in the 90s it was Andrew Vlahov @ a HUGE 6'7" 245lbs and in the first half of this decade it was the international veteran Jason Smith @ a quick 6'3" 190lbs).
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  6. #26

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    so much of this Olympics tournament for Australia is on the shoulders of the Australias pg CJ Bruton. The guy is so frustrating to watch- sometimes he shoots the lights out and can win games (against anyone) by himself, and sometimes you hardly notice hes playing. Because of the inexperience of the Boomers backcourt (Newley, Mills, Barlow, Ingles are all promising players but are babies compared to the Ginobillis and Navarros of the world) they need Cj, for the first time in his career, to catch fire each and very game.

    If he can do that, and open things up for that massive frontline, you have to feel like the sky's the limit for this Australia group. As Bruton goes, so go the Boomers.

    Personally, i cant wait for the day Mills has enough experience to take over the reigns. Kid is a mini Tony Parker and plays with so much composure.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Saskibaloia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redred
    Personally, i cant wait for the day Mills has enough experience to take over the reigns. Kid is a mini Tony Parker and plays with so much composure.
    I agree and to take it a little extreme to say that who knows by the time 2012 Olympics in "Mother England" we could see the Boomers on the podium led by our dynamic duo of Millsy & Drewy
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  8. #28
    Senior Member VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinobball
    I give your coach a lot of credits for executing the defensive scheme so brilliantly, full court press with half court traps, your big men also did a good job guarding the low post (of course our guards sucking big time has something to do with it...). Unfortunately your team doesn't seem to have too many athletes, nor a consistent scorer and looked pretty passive on offensive rebounds (especially compared to, say, Angola). I know Bogut will play better than today though.
    Coach Goorjian's defense is actually being copied by nba teams.
    some even asked for tapes of the sydney kings to study the pattern
    im trying to remember the name of the defense...

  9. #29
    Senior Member VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saskibaloia
    I believe that the 1 spot is well covered by those two and that the big man department (4 & 5) is also well covered will former NBA player Chris Anstey, Euro League superstar David Anderson and his counterpart Euro League veteran Matty Nielsen and who could forget the "Bogey Man" but it is the swingman where the Boomers are exposed. Firstly, you have a couple of first timers in Shawn Redhage (actually in the Australian league the guy plays the 4 spot) and Mark Worthington (the last few seasons Coach Goorjian has been using him at the 4 spot due to his use of a quicker and faster lineup back in the days when he was the coach of the Sydney Kings) but my concern is that there is no defensive perimeter specialist to shut down the best offensive player of the opposition. Australia in the past used to have such a role player (in the 90s it was Andrew Vlahov @ a HUGE 6'7" 245lbs and in the first half of this decade it was the international veteran Jason Smith @ a quick 6'3" 190lbs).
    i believe that the 3 is its Achilles heel..
    they had to naturalise redhage to solve the 3 man depth problem of australia

  10. #30
    Senior Member VII's Avatar
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    Default The Boomers in Beijing 2008

    A SHOCKED Boomers coach Brian Goorjian is still trying to pick up the pieces after his team's inexplicable opening game debacle.

    Australia was embarassed against Croatia in game one of the Olympic tournament 97-82; a performance which left Goorjian and his players baffled.

    "It is something I needed some time to think about because I just didn't expect this," Goorjian said.
    "One of the things this group has had respect for is the way we have competed so this was a surprise in that form.

    "We've got 24 hours to sit and have a think, I'll meet with the leadership group and address the energy and effort areas."

    The Boomers, who now need to win at least two of their next four games to progress to the quarter-finals, face reigning Olympic champion Argentina tonight.

    "We are definitely not going to roll over right now and cry about it," Boomers captain Matt Nielsen said.

    "We built ourselves up to this point pretty well and had been decently happy with the results that we'd had but to get to this point and come out here in the fashion we did was surprising.

    "It is a five-game tournament for us right now and its only one down. We didn't play the way we would have liked but it was only seven days ago that we played the team (Argentina) we are about to and we did a decent job so it can't be that hard to get back to that."

    Confidence has been high in the Boomers camp over the past month after a string of impressive performances including a victory over Croatia and a close contest against the USA Dream Team.

    In last week's Argentina game the Aussies led by 19 in the third quarter when Goojian decided to bench NBA star Andrew Bogut which resulted in the Olympic champions coming back and snatching the win by four points.

    "Our lead-up to this was good and we played two quality teams and didn't get dominated in the fashion that we did (against Croatia)," Goorjian said.

    "What we talked about coming into the tournament is we have got to defend and we have got to win the effort areas to move on.

    "There are check points we need to cover in order to be competitive and we got beaten in every one of those aspects in game one. Now the ball is in our court, we get 48 hours to come out and play one of the better teams in the world."

    The form and fitness of Bogut is a major concern and he certainly looked out of sorts against Croatia after having hardly trained in the lead-up becaues of an ankle injury. He only played 21 minutes and pulled down just one rebound for the match while scoring 10 points.

    "The ankle is a little bit sore but pulled up pretty well," he said after Sunday night's game. "It was a tough loss but we have to move and focus on Argentina.

    "It was one of those games where we didn't come out from the gate and they hurt us, they shot well and got some open threes. I think once they got hot it all went wrong. So now we've got four games and we need to start winning."

    The Boomers have never won a medal in Olympic competition and Goorjian was adamant in the lead-up to Beijing that he had the team to make an impact and get out of the qualifying round which they failed to do in Athens four years ago.

    That task is much tougher now with the only certain win likely against Iran which means they will have to pull off a major upset against either Lithuania, Argentina or Russia to have any chance of making the medal rounds.

    Taken from the Australian on 11th Aug 2008

    NOTE: I saw the game, I personally thought the boomers were sluggish.
    the fire that we all saw when they played the US were obviously missing in their game against Croatia, and now would have to pull a miracle to beat an angry Argentinian after they suffered a 79-75 lost from the hands of the Lithuanian.
    Last edited by rikhardur; 08-11-2008 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Threads merged

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by VII
    NOTE: I saw the game, I personally thought the boomers were sluggish.
    the fire that we all saw when they played the US were obviously missing in their game against Croatia, and now would have to pull a miracle to beat an angry Argentinian after they suffered a 79-75 lost from the hands of the Lithuanian.
    They played the same half court trap defense and zone as they did against USA. USA shot the threeball poorly so it seemed somewhat successful.

    Croatia had 4 guys sitting out there on the 3pt line and were nailing their 3s at 80% for most of the game yet the Boomers coach stuck with the same strategy.

    At the same time Croatia were just a different class that night on both ends of the court.

    Australia doesn't deserve to be in the Olympics.

  12. #32
    Senior Member VII's Avatar
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    Default Boomers vs Croatia Stats

    Boomers vs Croatia Stats

    Country Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Total
    Australia 14 17 22 29 82 Nielsen (13pts), Anstey (7rbs), Barlow (3ast)

    Croatia 21 26 26 24 97 Prkácin (16pts), Loncar (10rbs), Popovic (5ast)

    Australia
    No. Name Rebounds Points

    4 C Anstey 7 6
    5 P Mills 1 9
    6 A Bogut 1 10
    7 J Ingles 0 7
    8 B Newley 2 6
    9 C Bruton 2 5
    10 D Barlow 2 12
    11 M Worthington 0 4
    12 G Saville 0 0
    13 D Andersen 1 4
    14 M Nielsen 5 13
    15 S Redhage 1 6

    Total 82


    Croatia
    No. Name Rebounds Points

    4 R Ukic 1 9
    5 D Kus 0 7
    6 M Popovic 0 6
    7 M Rozic 2 3
    8 N Prkacin 1 16
    9 M Tomas 4 12
    10 Z Planinic 2 12
    11 S Nicevic 3 2
    12 D Rudez 0 0
    13 M Banic 2 16
    14 K Loncar 10 10
    15 S Barac 2 4

    Total 97

  13. #33
    Administrator mvblair's Avatar
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    Matt's Uninformed Australian 2008 Campaign Comments

    • Team Australia was wonderful. They played tough and hard, just the way I enjoy basketball. The finesse game from Mills is also fun, but I'll take bangers any day.
    • The best individual performance was Bogut against Lithuania. Yes, Bogut should’ve played better in the other games, but he was unstoppable against Lithuania, hence the 31 point victory. Absolutely incredible game.
    • Somebody buy that Barlow kid a comb. He’s got a nice career, but the kid needs a comb.
    • Matt Nielson can play. Statistically, he wasn’t too hot. But that guy is a real bruiser. He’s not a thug. He could play with any of the NBA bruisers.
    • Patty Mills has wonderful finesse. He’s a super smooth player. Watching him fly past Chris Paul was great, wasn’t it? I hope we get to see more of this young man. I loved watching him play defense. He picked up his man right when he crossed the half-court and, as we say in the US, played “in his drawers.”
    • Goorjian might not be good at coaching big men, but I think he did a great job. Australia played incredible games against Lithuania and Russia. Unfortunately, they just couldn’t compete at all against Argentina and Croatia. I think Argentina and Croatia are better than Australia, but if they played again, I guarantee the game would be a "fourth quarter finish."
    • Fortunately, Australia is going to have this same core group of players for the next couple of years. They’ll continue to play well. I don’t think there is any doubt now that Australia can play competitively against the best teams in Europe. They deserve to be in the Top 10 FIBA rankings.
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  14. #34
    Senior Member Dtown's Avatar
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    Without reading mvblair's post so this goes without influence.

    I love Australia's potential and I think without their bad start at the beginning of the tournament, they could have made some serious noise in the knockout stage. They played the US as tough as anyone barring Spain, and Mills has the potential to be a legit NBA guard. If they can keep this team together, Australia and medals may not be far fetched in the future.
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  15. #35

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    i think australia has a real exciting future to look forward to. Youngsters Bogut, Newley, Barlow, Mills and Ingles will eventually be joined by Jawai (raptors), Ogilvy (ncaa) and Aaron Bruce; that should be the core moving forward. And this is the core that will one day soon medal for Australia, i think.

    Its not a basketball country in the slightest, but this could be the start of very nice era of hoops for them.

  16. #36
    Administrator mvblair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redred
    Its not a basketball country in the slightest, but this could be the start of very nice era of hoops for them.
    I agree. They've got some bright young players. Let's hope they keep playing well. I think you're right that they could compete for medals in the near future.

    Australia is lucky. Gaze, Heal, and Longley left the team after a great showing in Sydney (4th place, right?). Now Australia has some youngsters ready to go fight again.
    "I really like the attitudes of eagles. They never give up. When they grab a fish or something else, they never let it go. It doesn't matter. In a book, they write they find a skeleton of [an] eagle and there is no fish. It means that the fish beat him and killed him, but he didn't let go." -- Donatas Motiejunas

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by VII
    Coach Goorjian's defense is actually being copied by nba teams.
    some even asked for tapes of the sydney kings to study the pattern
    im trying to remember the name of the defense...
    Australia's defense is physical and very admirable. The way they hold down the US in exhibition match and Russia in the Olympics proper.
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  18. #38
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    AUS – Heal: "I don't think the Boomers coach should be coaching in the NBL"


    SYDNEY (National team) - Former Australia national team star Shane Heal has spoken of the need for the Boomers to have a full-time coach.

    Brian Goorjian has been at the helm of the national side for six years while also coaching in the NBL.


    Goorjian indicated before the Olympics that he would step down from the Boomers’ job after the Beijing Games and Heal, who reached the semi-finals of the 1996 and 2000 Olympics, has offered his view on the coaching situation in a column on www.goldcoast.com.au.

    "I don't think the Boomers coach should be coaching in the NBL and doing the most important role in Australian basketball as a part-time thing in the off-season," Heal wrote.

    "The head coach should also coach the under-19 Australian team too. This would provide some continuity and understanding of what's needed for these kids to eventually step up to the senior level.

    "It allows the coach to run the same offenses and defenses, use the same terminology and create the same values and cultures that the senior team has."


    Heal believes that a national team coach who is also at the head of an NBL side might show favouritism towards his own players.

    "Coaches also have been criticised for being biased in choosing guys who play in their club team," Heal wrote.

    "Goorjian copped flak for choosing so many (Sydney) Kings players.

    "I had my opinion about him choosing Luke Kendall from the Kings over my teammate in Melbourne Joe Ingles.

    "A year later he was coaching Joe and chose him over Kendall whom he no longer coached.


    "The national coach should not be put in this situation."
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  19. #39
    Senior Member Saskibaloia's Avatar
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    I can definitely see and to a certain agree where Shane Heal is coming from. It is evident that Coach Goorjian does prefer to select players that he has coached or are on his ball club and besides Shane Heal's example of Luke Kendall and Joe Ingles there's also the case of Nathan Crosswhite, though a bruiser, and bruisers are needed in training camp or even on national teams his selection was debatable.

    That is a great idea that the coach of the national team is to also coach the junior national team however, from my experience as a varsity high school coach that coaching players at that age is very, very different from coaching a national team where the players are more mature, intelligent, professional and have a better and quicker understanding of the game. Thus I believe that the coach should not be the coach of the junior national team. However, I do believe that the national coach should still be invovled with the junior national team program possibly as a assistant coach or senior advisor.
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  20. #40

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    Doesn't Rob Beverage still coach the Juniors? Wouldn't he be the next logical Senior coach?

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