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  • Don Nelson critical of Cuban's comments on Olympics

    Don Nelson critical of Cuban's comments on Olympics -- by By EDDIE SEFKO, The Dallas Morning News, June 19, 2008

    The U.S. men's Olympic basketball team, which will include Dallas Mavericks' guard Jason Kidd, is one of the top honors an athlete or coach can have, and former Mavs coach Don Nelson said Wednesday that it's a travesty that Mark Cuban views the Olympics as strictly a financial proposition.

    "I couldn't disagree more," Nelson said. "It's not about the money. There is pride in these athletes. He ought to have more respect for his country. Everybody in the NBA makes plenty of money. It's not too much to ask that every four years you give something back to your country."

    ...

    "It's not that I don't like the idea of them representing their countries," Cuban told The Dallas Morning News in Wednesday's editions. "What I don't like is that we lie to ourselves and pretend that Olympians represent our country. They don't. It's about money."

    Cuban may have two of his players in the Olympics. Dirk Nowitzki will play for the German national team if it emerges from a qualifying tournament next month.

    Kidd said Wednesday that he is looking forward to the chance to bring home the gold, which the U.S. has not done since the 2000 Olympics.

    But Nelson, who coached the U.S. team to gold in the 1994 World Championships, said he could not understand any thinking that downgrades the patriotic feelings he had representing his country.

    "It was one of the highlights of my career because I was trying to do something for my country and we won a gold medal," Nelson said. "Some of the most important moments in an athlete's life come when he does something for his country. I felt good about giving something back. It's not about money.

    "This country has given Mark Cuban the opportunity to make money by the billions. You'd think he'd have more respect about giving something back to his country. He should feel a sense of pride, be privileged and honored to have one of his players on the Olympic team. If he doesn't, that's sad."
    I think this is more of a debate in the US than it is in any other country. In the ownership circles, there seems to be these wierd ideas about insurance, capital, and injuries.

    Almost everybody reading this probably supports the idea that everybody in any league should be allowed to play in the Olympics if they're good enough to make their national team. Cuban disagrees; Nelson disagrees with Cuban. It's probably all a part of their little feud, but the idea that players shouldn't play is still big among owners.
    "I really like the attitudes of eagles. They never give up. When they grab a fish or something else, they never let it go. It doesn't matter. In a book, they write they find a skeleton of [an] eagle and there is no fish. It means that the fish beat him and killed him, but he didn't let go." -- Donatas Motiejunas

  • #2
    "It's not that I don't like the idea of them representing their countries," Cuban told The Dallas Morning News in Wednesday's editions. "What I don't like is that we lie to ourselves and pretend that Olympians represent our country. They don't. It's about money."
    I honestly don't see where he is coming from..If an athlete was thinking about money, he wouldn't be in the Olympics risking injury(well, reminds me of Big Z's team not allowing him to play for Lithuania for this exact reason)..If an athlete were too selfish he will hit the gym get better before the NBA season starts, and not risk his career with an injury in an Olympic competition where he doesn't get as much cash..... If there was any issue about money here, it wont be with the athletes, its with them team owners.
    Philippine Basketball Review

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Cuban (does he have a US visa?)
      What I don't like is that we lie to ourselves and pretend that Olympians represent our country. They don't. It's about money
      spot on remark about the NBA aproach. I'm surprised by Nelson, actually..
      stop russia

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by thadzonline
        I honestly don't see where he is coming from..If an athlete was thinking about money,
        Cuban isn't talking about the athletes making money, he's talking about the Olympics and FIBA making money while he and the players are assuming all the risk.

        IMO FIBA needs to change the calendar ro ensure that at least one summer out of every four-year cycle is free of senior-level international competitions. Players need a full offseason once in a while to rest and recuperate injuries, and avoid burnout. The current situation puts players in an awkward position.
        Originally posted by Fedfan
        Most ppl get childish when they lose.
        Originally posted by GuTO
        refs in games of Spain walks with literally poop in his pants afraid of the Spanish players

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JGX
          Cuban isn't talking about the athletes making money, he's talking about the Olympics and FIBA making money while he and the players are assuming all the risk.
          The ideal response for this would be for FIBA or the IOC to explain what do they do with all the profits.

          PS: Cuban's comment has one major flaw, it considers the Olympics and the FIBA tournaments as if it were the same thing.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by alermac
            PS: Cuban's comment has one major flaw, it considers the Olympics and the FIBA tournaments as if it were the same thing.
            Indeed. Plus: It considers both the Olympics and FIBA tournaments to be some nice summer story, while club basketball is everything.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by robbe
              Indeed. Plus: It considers both the Olympics and FIBA tournaments to be some nice summer story, while club basketball is everything.
              Summing up, for him the Celtics were world champions
              Die Liebe wird eine Krankheit, wenn man sie als eine Heilung sieht
              Artificial Nature

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              • #8
                Originally posted by robbe
                Indeed. Plus: It considers both the Olympics and FIBA tournaments to be some nice summer story, while club basketball is everything.
                Not at all. In fact, he says he wouldn't have a problem with it if it were just a nice summer story. The problem he has is that someone else is making a big profit off of the players that he is paying, and will still have to pay even if they get hurt playing in the tournament that makes a big profit for someone else.

                Just like I said above, he's unhappy that he is assuming the risk while someone else takes the profit.
                Originally posted by Fedfan
                Most ppl get childish when they lose.
                Originally posted by GuTO
                refs in games of Spain walks with literally poop in his pants afraid of the Spanish players

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JGX
                  Not at all. In fact, he says he wouldn't have a problem with it if it were just a nice summer story. The problem he has is that someone else is making a big profit off of the players that he is paying, and will still have to pay even if they get hurt playing in the tournament that makes a big profit for someone else.

                  Just like I said above, he's unhappy that he is assuming the risk while someone else takes the profit.
                  So what does Cuban expect? That the world's best players play basketball and there is no TV coverage and no spectators allowed, because someone would make profit? I understand that he doesn't want to get his players injured. But I don't understand what that has to do with someone making money off these tournaments.

                  I'll stay with what I wrote ... to me, his statements are a result of what he thinks about international tournaments, both WC and Olympics. In European football/soccer, the situation is theoretically the same, but here the club vs. country debate is about whether or not national team friendly games should be scheduled in mid-season. A club even asking a national team player to take a break from the summer tournament due to his tiredness would be a scandal, let alone taking legal action against the player's participation. Nobody would even for one second think about saying what Cuban does. It's all about the standing of different competitions. I have learned that in the US the Olympics are not such a big thing. In Europe they are big. The foreign movement in the NBA is a relatively young one, at least we didn't see those big numbers of foreign players in the NBA before 2000(back when you could steal Manu Ginobili with the 57th pick). It is a relatively new development. Hence, there is a lot of confusion at the moment.

                  I hope it all eventually all turns out well and players who want to play will be allowed to - without e.g. having their contract terminated because of it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by robbe
                    So what does Cuban expect? That the world's best players play basketball and there is no TV coverage and no spectators allowed, because someone would make profit? I understand that he doesn't want to get his players injured. But I don't understand what that has to do with someone making money off these tournaments.
                    If someone is going to make a profit off these tournaments, he would like it to be himself, because he's the one paying the players. As far as he is concerned, the Olympics (maybe not so much FIBA) are a competitor for advertising and sponsorship money and the NBA is helping their competitor by letting them use their players for free.

                    As for players, he said a couple years ago to have them sign a clause in their contract that they would lose all their guaranteed money if they got hurt in international competition, then see how enthusiastic they were about playing for their national teams...

                    I don't necessarily agree with him, but as a fan it's a little too easy to ignore his concerns.

                    A club even asking a national team player to take a break from the summer tournament due to his tiredness would be a scandal, let alone taking legal action against the player's participation.
                    Soccer players wouldn't have a big tournament every summer. They get breaks. FIBA should ensure the same--it is better for players, and will help prevent club/country conflicts.

                    Also, while they don't pressure European players into missing the European Championships because of the public outcry, they are certainly not above pressuring players from other regions into skipping their championships.

                    I have learned that in the US the Olympics are not such a big thing.
                    The Olympics are a very big thing in the US. Big enough that NBC pays the IOC enough television rights money that the IOC is making some of the big events be early in the morning in China so they are in prime time in the US. Olympic basketball is certainly a much bigger deal than World Championship basketball in the US.
                    Originally posted by Fedfan
                    Most ppl get childish when they lose.
                    Originally posted by GuTO
                    refs in games of Spain walks with literally poop in his pants afraid of the Spanish players

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I agree with everything you said, Robbe, except:
                      Originally posted by robbe
                      ...I have learned that in the US the Olympics are not such a big thing. In Europe they are big...
                      If you look at the vested interests (pro sports owners), than yes, you're right. But I think the average American is really interested in the Olympics. I think they really enjoy watching the Olympics and following the competitions. No, we as a country don't follow amateur/national sports as much as pro sports, but we only have the Olympics once every two years. Internationally, soccer is much bigger, so Europeans get more of a chance to watch amateur/national than we do. As basketball has become a bigger sports worldwide, Americans have become more interested in the international competition. Heck, back in '98, ESPN wouldn't mention national team rosters, and now they talk about it quite frequently.

                      I'm trying to say two things: 1) Yankees haven't had a chance to enjoy amateur/national competitions because we don't follow soccer, and 2) Yankees are starting to care about them.

                      Just my thoughts.
                      "I really like the attitudes of eagles. They never give up. When they grab a fish or something else, they never let it go. It doesn't matter. In a book, they write they find a skeleton of [an] eagle and there is no fish. It means that the fish beat him and killed him, but he didn't let go." -- Donatas Motiejunas

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JGX
                        If someone is going to make a profit off these tournaments, he would like it to be himself, because he's the one paying the players. As far as he is concerned, the Olympics (maybe not so much FIBA) are a competitor for advertising and sponsorship money and the NBA is helping their competitor by letting them use their players for free.
                        Here we are talking about "standing" again. In Europe it is accepted that the FIBA/Olympics take place in the summer and make money with club players. Cuban obviously thinks he has some sort of right in taking actions in order to keep players from playing. Once again, I perfectly understand why he's not happy with his players - who are worth millions - risking injuries. But he cannot simply forbid them to go. That is a relatively young conflict that has to be soluted.

                        As for players, he said a couple years ago to have them sign a clause in their contract that they would lose all their guaranteed money if they got hurt in international competition, then see how enthusiastic they were about playing for their national teams...
                        But that's a childish comment. You know, I know, and he knows.

                        I don't necessarily agree with him, but as a fan it's a little too easy to ignore his concerns.
                        I hope nobody is ignoring his concerns, even the fans. But fact is: every team manager, owner, coach in sports has these concerns. Not only Cuban. And he should learn to accept that hyrarchy is different in Europe compared to the US. He can't change that.

                        Originally posted by JGX
                        Soccer players wouldn't have a big tournament every summer. They get breaks. FIBA should ensure the same--it is better for players, and will help prevent club/country conflicts.
                        But do you really think this is the origin of the conflict? Let them play only every second year, and they'll have the debate every second break. Tired players, players who should rather have surgery than play ... those problems don't simply go away just because you reduce it to every second summer.

                        Football/soccer players have their qualification matches for the big tournaments not in the summer, but throughout the league season. Clubs don't like it of course, but they accept it, because they know there is no alternative. What would be your alternative for basketball? You say: Play every second year only. How do you qualify for the WC and Olympics. Where do you put Eurobasket?

                        Also, while they don't pressure European players into missing the European Championships because of the public outcry, they are certainly not above pressuring players from other regions into skipping their championships.
                        I know no case of a club holding its player back from playing e.g. in the South American Championship. The conflict they often have is between African Championship and European domestic league schedules. African Championship is being held in February. That is when the European leagues are in full swing. Players won't be able to play for their teams for what - three weeks? That's a bit of a difference compared to NBA - FIBA/Olympics, isn't it? However, I when I watched English PL in winter, they said that all the African players were away for national team purposes. I have not heard about clubs pressuring African players into not playing, but if you have a source, it is aprreciated. I wouldn't rule out that it happens in isolated cases. Do you think that would be possible? NBA players allowing Europeans to go away and play for their country for three weeks WHILE the NBA is under way?

                        The Olympics are a very big thing in the US. Big enough that NBC pays the IOC enough television rights money that the IOC is making some of the big events be early in the morning in China so they are in prime time in the US. Olympic basketball is certainly a much bigger deal than World Championship basketball in the US.
                        Well, that was just my impressions when discussing the topic with Americans. It seemed nobody was really interested in the Olympics. But those opinions I listened to maybe weren't representative. I trust your and Matt's words here.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by robbe
                          Cuban obviously thinks he has some sort of right in taking actions in order to keep players from playing. Once again, I perfectly understand why he's not happy with his players - who are worth millions - risking injuries. But he cannot simply forbid them to go.
                          I don't recall him ever forbidding his players from playing in international competition. He can't. But he can express his opinion.


                          But that's a childish comment. You know, I know, and he knows.
                          Not at all. It's easy to play for free when you are getting your $8 million next year no matter what...

                          But do you really think this is the origin of the conflict? Let them play only every second year, and they'll have the debate every second break. Tired players, players who should rather have surgery than play ... those problems don't simply go away just because you reduce it to every second summer.
                          Absolutely, I think it's a major reason for the conflict. There's just no break for the players--it's bad for them as well as the clubs.

                          You say: Play every second year only. How do you qualify for the WC and Olympics. Where do you put Eurobasket?
                          Year 1: Regional Championships
                          Year 2: World Champinships
                          Top X teams from World Championships qualify for Olympics--remainder go to Olympic Qualifying tournament
                          Year 3: Regional Tournaments for teams that didn't qualify for World Championships--winners go to Olympic Qualifying Tournament
                          Year 4: Olympic Qualifying Tournament & Olympics

                          I have not heard about clubs pressuring African players into not playing, but if you have a source, it is aprreciated. I wouldn't rule out that it happens in isolated cases.
                          For the ANC it is easy:


                          Only this week Barcelona technical secretary Txiki Begiristain admitted to the media that he had asked Barca's African stars Samuel Eto'o and Yaya Toure not to go to the continental championships.

                          The tensions can be massive at the clubs, though. Here at Reading I am close to the gaffer, who understands the situation, but that is not the case everywhere. One of my Senegal teammates [Souleymane] Diawara is having a few problems. He used to play for Charlton but went to Bordeaux and he agreed with the club when they signed him that he would not go [to the African Nations]. After that he decided that he should be playing for his country and Bordeaux are not happy. When he comes back he is going to have trouble.

                          But neither Chelsea nor Portsmouth can match the anti-African Cup of Nations efforts of FC Ashdod. The Israeli club have told their Ghanaian keeper Sammy Adjei (pictured) that if he plays for his country in the tournament then he’s out of a job.

                          Adjei’s contract with FC Ashdod expires on May 31st and he’s been told that if he goes to Ghana then he shouldn’t bother coming back to Israel as his contract will 1) not be extended and 2) will be paid up immediately, effectively meaning he’d be fired and out of work. And FC Ashdod have already lined up former Maccabi Haifa keeper Tom Almadon as Adjei’s replacement.
                          Now, that is the ANC, which as you pointed out is during the club season--well, how about Copa America?

                          BBC, Sport, BBC Sport, bbc.co.uk, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service

                          Last week, Ze Roberto was named in Brazil's squad for the Copa America, which gets underway later this month in Venezuela. He has already pulled out...He says that his destination is not yet defined, but one of his former clubs, Bayern Munich, made it clear that they were interested in taking him back - as long as he declined the invitation to play in the Copa America...
                          There is no doubt that the big European clubs, at times, put pressure on their players not to answer international calls...
                          Brazil playmaker Kaka said on Tuesday he is committed to AC Milan and had never asked for a transfer to Spanish champions Real Madrid.

                          Kaka, who was rested from the Copa America at Milan's request
                          Mexico had five European-based players who were expected to be key players at Copa America last year. Three of them withdrew from the squad at the last minute. Coincidence?

                          In any case, soccer teams release players for international competition because FIFA rules require them to, not because they like to.
                          Originally posted by Fedfan
                          Most ppl get childish when they lose.
                          Originally posted by GuTO
                          refs in games of Spain walks with literally poop in his pants afraid of the Spanish players

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JGX
                            I don't recall him ever forbidding his players from playing in international competition. He can't. But he can express his opinion.
                            I never said he did. But that’s what he obviously would like to do.

                            Not at all. It's easy to play for free when you are getting your $8 million next year no matter what...
                            Well, it’s not, obviously. Weddings, tiredness, injuries … we all heard the excuses. It obviously wasn’t easy for Vince Carter and all the other guys that have turned their national teams’ offers down over there years. It takes a bit of commitment to fight yourself through weeks of training camp and tournaments with packed schedules. You risk injury and tiredness in the next season.

                            It’s quite a double standard: On the one hand everybody complains about how statistics suddenly explode in contract years, and how players then sign for the big money, and don’t show anything on the court after that. Short: lack of heart and no love for the game. On the other hand here we have players who have no financial benefit whatsoever from participating in the summer tournaments, even risking things – doing it because of heart and passion. Yet people keep criticising them for not being loyal towards their employer, even pointing towards contractual obligations. Strange world.

                            Absolutely, I think it's a major reason for the conflict. There's just no break for the players--it's bad for them as well as the clubs.
                            But that only determines how frequently the conflict occurs. The whole theatre reoccurs every summer a tournament takes place. Ilgauskas for example never asked to play for Lithuania. Now he does it once, and there is mayhem.

                            Year 1: Regional Championships
                            Year 2: World Champinships
                            Top X teams from World Championships qualify for Olympics--remainder go to Olympic Qualifying tournament
                            Year 3: Regional Tournaments for teams that didn't qualify for World Championships--winners go to Olympic Qualifying Tournament
                            Year 4: Olympic Qualifying Tournament & Olympics
                            So if I read it correctly, some teams will play all four years, some will play three? Really, I think that won’t offer any solutions.

                            [Sources]
                            Thanks for the sources. I was expecting the Africa Tournament to provoke problems due to the schedule. Especially in the EPL. I now remember the Ze Roberto case. Shame on them, shouldn’t happen, and is an isolated case hopefully.

                            In any case, soccer teams release players for international competition because FIFA rules require them to, not because they like to.
                            They do? That would be a wonderful rule for FIBA, in my opinion. But Cuban is probably against it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I can think of a few solutions:

                              1) NBA only allowing its players to play in world competitions, not continental.
                              2) FIBA should eliminate the Olympic qualifier, it only enlarges the issue.
                              3) NBA giving extra salary cap to any team with a player injured on international competition. That extra salary cap, along with the insurance money, would minimize the harm done to the franchise.
                              4) FIBA leaving the Olympics, but creating a bigger World Championship with more countries involved, every 4 years, so most good players have a chance of playing one.

                              No solution is perfect, but no sport has a perfect one either.

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