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Thread: Lithuanian talents.

  1. #21
    Senior Member lafa's Avatar
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    can anybody please name ANY recent lithuanian player who became a star before he turned 24?

    if somebody asked me then answer would be - there is one, macijauskas. even jasikevicius became a star only in his second year with barca.
    javtokas could have been just right next to macas, if not his motorcycle accident...

    can you name a lithuanian, that became a star or a pretty good player after he turned 24?

    if somebody asked me then answer would be: stombergas (star), timinskas (i'd call him a star), jasikevicius (star), siskauskas (star), lavrinovic brothers (stars), petravicius (pretty good player), lukauskis (pretty good player), klimavicius (pretty good player)... and so on...

    my point is - if there are no great 18-20 year liths right now it doesn't matter that some of the won't turn into a pretty good players before they hit 25

  2. #22
    Administrator mvblair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafa
    ...even jasikevicius became a star only in his second year with barca. ..
    I don't think that's true. At least Jasikevicius was a star in the US when he was 20-years-old and going to Maryland. I think a lot of people forget that Jasikevicius was one of the only players in the Atlantic who scouts thought was a sure NBA shot. Jasikevicius just never got the chance when he first graduated (his fault for signing big contracts) (and never got a chance once he arrived in the NBA). He was a bonafide star in the NCAA back when he was running the floor with Lorin Profit.
    "I really like the attitudes of eagles. They never give up. When they grab a fish or something else, they never let it go. It doesn't matter. In a book, they write they find a skeleton of [an] eagle and there is no fish. It means that the fish beat him and killed him, but he didn't let go." -- Donatas Motiejunas

  3. #23
    Senior Member LuDux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaunaz
    Where are no problem of talents in Lithuania:
    1985:
    1.Kleiza is already a big star. And in few years he gonna be just like Karnisovas or even better.
    2.Maciulis also became a national team level player. And since 2009 Eurobasket when some older players will retire he would be one of the leaders.

    Also Seibutis and Jomantas got some potencial. But Jomantas now is No.1 most hated in Lithuania because of his dirty defensive tricks to injury someone.
    1986:
    1.Kalnietis should play SG mostly and the problem is that coaches and media wants to make him a playmaker. And of course is bad that he has to sit on the bench most of the games.
    2.Andriuskevicius. Maybe where are stil some hopes about him.
    1987:
    1.Dilys
    2.Butkevicius
    1988:
    Gecevicius
    1989:
    1.Vasiliauskas
    2.Janavicius
    3.Cepukaitis
    4.Lipkevicius
    5.Juskevicius
    1990:
    1.Motiejunas
    2.Sapiega
    3.Slezas
    1991:
    Peciukevicius
    1992:
    1.Cizauskas. Eurolegue NIKE IJT 2008 (U-18) stats: 18 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 5.7 spg! And he was 2 years younger than most of opponents!
    1985
    1. Kleiza
    2. Maciulis
    3. Jomantas
    4. Seibutis
    5. Sinica

    1986
    1. Pocius
    2. Kalnietis
    3. Aleksandrovas
    4. Viskontas
    5. Runkauskas

    1987
    1. Butkevicius
    2. Trakimas
    3. Labuckas
    4. Dilys
    5. Ezerskis

    1988
    1. Gecevicius
    2. Valukonis
    3. Gailius
    4. Skurdauskas
    5. Gvezdauskas

    1989
    1. Janavicius
    2. Vasiliauskas
    3. Cepukaitis
    4. Lipkevicius
    5. Juskevicius

    Also check out who's among U-16 NT candidates

  4. #24
    Senior Member sashikas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuDux
    Also check out who's among U-16 NT candidates
    Damn it, the time runs fast.. I wonder, how will he feel in not-so-familiar circumstances among Lithuanians, not spanish. And how his teammates will feel having Tautvydas in the squad (if he will get there).

  5. #25
    Senior Member re5pectas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sashikas
    Damn it, the time runs fast.. I wonder, how will he feel in not-so-familiar circumstances among Lithuanians, not spanish. And how his teammates will feel having Tautvydas in the squad (if he will get there).
    uugh, what a name
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  6. #26
    Senior Member lafa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvblair
    I don't think that's true. At least Jasikevicius was a star in the US when he was 20-years-old and going to Maryland. I think a lot of people forget that Jasikevicius was one of the only players in the Atlantic who scouts thought was a sure NBA shot. Jasikevicius just never got the chance when he first graduated (his fault for signing big contracts) (and never got a chance once he arrived in the NBA). He was a bonafide star in the NCAA back when he was running the floor with Lorin Profit.
    maybe... 10 years ago we had too little information about ncaa itself, about liths there and no games whatsoever. even though he was considered a star overseas he wasn't star here right from the start when he got back. it took him 2-3 years to establish himself as one of the top point guards in europe

  7. #27
    Senior Member kecal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafa
    maybe... 10 years ago we had too little information about ncaa itself, about liths there and no games whatsoever. even though he was considered a star overseas he wasn't star here right from the start when he got back. it took him 2-3 years to establish himself as one of the top point guards in europe
    I think I remmember reading some pre-draft reports where Šaras was called a good shooter, but too slow and not really creative with the ball. It didn't sound as if he was considered "a star". Decent collegiate player - maybe. I think Zmago Sagadin gave him a lot - maturity, first of all.

  8. #28
    Administrator mvblair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafa
    maybe... 10 years ago we had too little information about ncaa itself, about liths there and no games whatsoever. even though he was considered a star overseas he wasn't star here right from the start when he got back. it took him 2-3 years to establish himself as one of the top point guards in europe
    Fair enough. Even today, I don't think there is enough information about the NCAA in Europe (and not enough Euro domestic league information in the US!). There are some great players in the NCAA, and Saras was one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by kecal
    think I remmember reading some pre-draft reports where Šaras was called a good shooter, but too slow and not really creative with the ball. It didn't sound as if he was considered "a star". Decent collegiate player - maybe. I think Zmago Sagadin gave him a lot - maturity, first of all.
    I guess there's also a big difference between "college star" and "pro star." Today, most of the best collegiate stars don't play pro basketball. They're not good enough to actually get paid, because even the Lithuanian domestic league is too strong for a great NCAA player, and it's been that way for the past 25 years.
    "I really like the attitudes of eagles. They never give up. When they grab a fish or something else, they never let it go. It doesn't matter. In a book, they write they find a skeleton of [an] eagle and there is no fish. It means that the fish beat him and killed him, but he didn't let go." -- Donatas Motiejunas

  9. #29
    Senior Member lafa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvblair
    Fair enough. Even today, I don't think there is enough information about the NCAA in Europe (and not enough Euro domestic league information in the US!). There are some great players in the NCAA, and Saras was one of them. I guess there's also a big difference between "college star" and "pro star." Today, most of the best collegiate stars don't play pro basketball. They're not good enough to actually get paid, because even the Lithuanian domestic league is too strong for a great NCAA player, and it's been that way for the past 25 years.
    i remember i saw one game... it was seton hall with karnisovas vs. georgetown with alonzo mourning. karnisovas was either junior or senior, i don't recall which one... karnisovas poured something like 30 points and seton hall thrashed georgetown by quite big margin...

  10. #30
    Junior Member kaunaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafa
    can anybody please name ANY recent lithuanian player who became a star before he turned 24?

    if somebody asked me then answer would be - there is one, macijauskas. even jasikevicius became a star only in his second year with barca.
    javtokas could have been just right next to macas, if not his motorcycle accident...

    can you name a lithuanian, that became a star or a pretty good player after he turned 24?

    if somebody asked me then answer would be: stombergas (star), timinskas (i'd call him a star), jasikevicius (star), siskauskas (star), lavrinovic brothers (stars), petravicius (pretty good player), lukauskis (pretty good player), klimavicius (pretty good player)... and so on...

    my point is - if there are no great 18-20 year liths right now it doesn't matter that some of the won't turn into a pretty good players before they hit 25
    It depends what do you mean star? If you mean star by popularity and media interest after some winned championships you are right. But if you are talking about only playing level so I'm 100% sure that most of the players reach their top level of playing at age of 22-23. There lots of examples.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Gytaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaunaz
    I'm 100% sure that most of the players reach their top level of playing at age of 22-23.
    Well, Kęstutis Marčiulionis did...

    So, you think that players like Šiškauskas and Jasikevičius played better at age 22-23 than they do now?

  12. #32
    Junior Member kaunaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gytaz
    Well, Kęstutis Marčiulionis did...

    So, you think that players like Šiškauskas and Jasikevičius played better at age 22-23 than they do now?
    They started playing in that level like they are now at that age 22-23.

  13. #33
    Senior Member lafa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaunaz
    They started playing in that level like they are now at that age 22-23.
    hehe, good one
    you are really a man of humour ))

  14. #34
    Senior Member adebisi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafa
    hehe, good one
    you are really a man of humour ))
    I guess he is from miestai.net forrum... So you should get used to this
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  15. #35
    Junior Member kaunaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lafa
    hehe, good one
    you are really a man of humour ))
    Yes but not this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by adebisi
    I guess he is from miestai.net forrum... So you should get used to this
    So what? Get used to what?

    Now seriously:
    Jasikevicius:
    1998/1999(22-23) Lietuvos rytas - 17.5 ppg 5.0 apg(LKL), 16.8 ppg 4.0 apg(Saporta cup)
    1999(23) Eurobasket LTU NT - 9.0 ppg 3.5 apg in 22 min. per game. 4th in scoring. The first trio in scoring were such players like Karnisovas, Sabonis, Stombergas. Eurobasket 2007 10.4 ppg and 5.6 apg. in 27 mpg.
    1999/2000(23-24) Olimpia - 9.3 ppg 3.4 apg (Slovenian league), 13.6 ppg. 4.9 apg (FIBA Euroleague). He was leading the Euroleague in asists that season.
    2000(24) Olympic games LTU NT - at the moment i can't find out the stats but i remember it was about 14 ppg. For example Athens 2004 his average only 11.3 ppg.

    I hope you wouldn't argue that Petrovic and Sabas reached their top level of playing even younger - 20-21 years old?

  16. #36
    Senior Member kecal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adebisi
    I guess he is from miestai.net forrum... So you should get used to this
    I second that

  17. #37
    Senior Member damelo's Avatar
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    I think if some guys rise fast at 18-19, like Batum, Rubio, Rudy, etc... (sorry, no lithuanian talents), they are no generality.
    I remember Erman Kunter talking about Nando de Colo last year saying some players are starting to progress fast at 22-23, like probably did Saras.

    And, we have to remember a player development depends a lot on the confidence he gets from his coaches, teammates, etc...
    It's a bird? It's a plane? No, it's Rudy!

  18. #38
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    well... maybe it isn't 100% true that player reaches it's 100% at 23-24 yo. But, concerning physical body and basketball skills this is more or less true.

    Siskauskas, Stombergas, Macijauskas were already fighting for LKL championship at 20-21 yo. Nothing to compare with Babrauskas, Peciukas, Sinica and so on.

    PS: Nando de Collo is 20yo.

  19. #39
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    I think that all the things about not enought talent is loads of bullshit.
    Karnishovas sayed the same thing when lithuanian dream team of karnishovas,sabas,marciulionis retired. he sayed lithuania wont have any victories for long time, and what? they didnt win anything only for 3 years, that's is not that tragic!!! I dont think he expected to siska,macas,jasikevicius rise that hard as they did, and in few years same thing will happen...
    all those 18 years old guuys will matture to Proper ballers, they will gain loads of confidence and experience in those few years and situation will stabilise.

  20. #40
    Senior Member auris1's Avatar
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    There is one peculiar thing about the talents – they don’t win trophies, teams do. On one hand we can have dream Olympics with some hope about the next generation ,on the other ,if there is one too many refusals ,we can start panic already because we don’t have replacements as yet and maybe for the many years to come .There is a natural cycle in everything with ups and downs and by logic lt should be heading downwards .But you know what ,if we win Olimpics ,then who cares - I would die a happy man even if we don’t win anything else in the next , lets say 10 years .
    Ok so to clarify – I would rather not see many of them than to see many of them not playing for the nt team

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