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Thread: Lithuanian talents.

  1. #2821
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    But I support the coach playing our STUDS hell or high water. That's the right attitude.
    Yes, play the studs, absolutely but the studs are determined by their play for the team and not the rep that they brought with them to the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    First priority for Youth team is to develop best individuals. To bring something to the senior NT. Winning medals is surely second priority and that's how it should be.
    I disagree. Developing players for the senior team is indeed nice but I'll take medals anywhere, particularly these days.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 07-30-2021 at 06:37 PM.

  2. #2822

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post

    I disagree. Developing players for the senior team is indeed nice but I'll take medals anywhere, particularly these days.
    That's one of the reasons why we suck at ISO strong players. This way you only go against something that we have been doing right lately and that wasn't much (Javtokas and even current federation talk about it explicitly). And for the last, Velicka, ultimate ISO guy at times in YOUTH basketball brought 4 medals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  3. #2823
    Senior Member LuDux's Avatar
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    Greece - Lithuania | 04/08/2021 - FIBA U18 MEN'S European Challenger 2021
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z21g1sUsVpU

  4. #2824

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    This U18 NT barely has standouts. Mockus in a long run might be interesting, he has some athleticism, explosiveness, passing touch, but I don't really see big upside. Butkus is quite interesting, but lacks a degree of coordination and talent. IMO, his current physical advantage will not help much in PROs and even know he doesn't really standout much. Very equal roster of average guys, sort of typical Lithuanian Youth NT which won't give much if any dividends for senior NT. From 2003 I see only Lelevicius as the guy with high upside.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  5. #2825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    This U18 NT barely has standouts. Mockus in a long run might be interesting, he has some athleticism, explosiveness, passing touch, but I don't really see big upside. Butkus is quite interesting, but lacks a degree of coordination and talent. IMO, his current physical advantage will not help much in PROs and even know he doesn't really standout much. Very equal roster of average guys, sort of typical Lithuanian Youth NT which won't give much if any dividends for senior NT. From 2003 I see only Lelevicius as the guy with high upside.
    You don't know that. There were always those guys who weren't so talented but came up being stronger players than those who projected as some prospects.
    Kuzminskas was an average player in his generation's NT where the big prospects were Vasiliauskas and Janavicius whom you projected NBA.
    Giedraitis is top4 Lithuanian player in club basketball but he didn't even play in youth NT's. (I don't count u20 where he was 12th skinny guy on the bench).
    In Lekavicius's generation all the attention was gathered by Grigonis abd Dimsa. He wasn't seriously countedas a good one before moving to Zalgiris and it wouldn't happen if Kalnietis wouldn't have left.
    It's far from being only about talent.

    From those 2003 y.b. players Butkus has the best hand but i also think he will lack fundamentals in a senior basketball.
    One of Butka brothers might be good.
    The same Mockus might be someone like Butkevicius.
    Kiudulas doesn't shine but he has a good body and he can play. It's about work and improvement now.
    Baltrusaitis has a good 3pointer for a pf and he was one of the best here a couple of years ago, but then stopped.

    P.S. Does this forum work fine for others?
    Last edited by Dreamcatcher; 08-06-2021 at 09:56 AM.

  6. #2826
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    It works fine for me as long as I remember to click the "Remember Me" box when logging in.


  7. #2827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher View Post
    Kiudulas doesn't shine but he has a good body and he can play.
    And he scored 20 pts against France. He and Mockus were the only guys who could bring any solid numbers in that lost game.

  8. #2828

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    Dreamcatcher, I meant that there's no eyes opening studs as prospects now. There's no stand-out prospects, no Kleiza's, JV's, Sabonis' or even Velicka's. As for possible late-bloomers, off course, there's always a possibility and I have admit I didn't watch many of this NT.

    But also we shouldn't over-emphasize guys like R. Giedraitis, Butkevicius, Lekavicius, and now probably Kariniauskas. Did they ever become NT studs? No. We have no single example when absolute no-name in Youth level becomes absolute stud in senior level. Kuzminskas is the closest thing we ever had probably, but by no means he became elite or something. He at least had worth mentioning streak 2015-2017, being important role player and even one of leaders in 2017, but that's it. We shouldn't go as far as discussing Rooney's Youth stats, that's complicated data, Soviet NT and shit. I don't want to include Siskauskas as well, cause I think he was just overlooked, no-one knew about him and he was simply not known for basketball schools and coaches (he started to play basketball at 15). The thing is that most NT studs showed some sort of promise at Youth level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  9. #2829

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    1959 Chomicius
    1960 Kurtinaitis
    1961 Krapikas
    1962 ---
    1963 ---
    1964 Sabonis, Marciulionis
    1965 Visockas
    1966 ---
    1967 ---
    1968 Lukminas
    1969 Einikis
    1970 ---
    1971 Karnisovas, Maskoliunas, Pacesas
    1972 ---
    1973 Stombergas, E. Zukauskas
    1974 Timinskas, Praskevicius, Adomaitis
    1975 M. Zukaukas, T.Masiulis
    1976 Jasikevicius, Jurkunas, Sestokas
    1977 Kaukenas, Salenga, Slanina
    1978 Siskauskas, Songaila, Ginevicius
    1979 Petravicius, Brothers, Laukauskis
    1980 Javtokas, Macijauskas, Gustas

    1981 ---
    1982 Jasaitis, Delininkaitis
    1983 ---
    1984 Jankunas, Kavaliauskas
    1985 Kleiza, Maciulis, Seibutis
    1986 Kalnietis, Pocius, Milaknis
    1987 ---
    1988 Gecevicius
    1989 Kuzminskas, Juskevicius
    1990 Motiejunas
    1991 ---
    1992 Valanciunas, Ulanovas, Giedraitis, Butkevicius
    1993 Gudaitis
    1994 Lekavicius, Grigonis
    1996 D.Sabonis
    1997
    1998 Kulboka, Sedekerskis, Masiulis
    1999 Brazdeikis, Velicka
    2000 Sirvydis, Jokubaitis, D.Giedraitis
    2001 Blazevic
    2002 Tubelis, Marciulionis, Rubstavicius
    2003 Lelevicius
    2004 Buzelis, Murauskas, Brazdeikis



    Retrospectively looking, I believe that 1998-2004 stretch might be second wealthiest after 1973- 1980.

    In other words, we might be looking at 18 years gap between one elite stretch of Lithuanian born talents to another (potentially). It wouldn't be surprise if it's gonna take pretty much 18 years till we again will have truly elite NT. The last time we had elite NT without any questions was 2008, and it was top 4 Olympic NT, and it suggests that around 2026 we may develop into truly elite NT again.

    That's only hypothesis. 1998-2004 stretch may disappoint, but it's without any doubt the most stacked stretch of prospects we ever had since 1980. Not only quantity, but quality as well. We have to mind that Sabonis, despite being born in 1996 and not belonging to my marked stretch, will surely be all the time as long as this stretch will be prevailing and likely longer.

    However you watch it, there's no so wealthy 7 years stretch of prospect power between 1980 and and 1998. Hopefully most guys will pan out and lift our NT again which is really losing it's positions now in basketball world. In the most optimistic scenario it may be happening faster as we nevertheless remain somewhat boderline-elite despite bad results and just lacking couple of backcourt pieces, but I will be very disappointed if we are not truly contending again on a constant basis in the second half of 20's.
    Last edited by Straight forward; 08-12-2021 at 03:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  10. #2830
    Senior Member LuDux's Avatar
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    Zalgiris-2 vs Prienai 80 84. 16-year-old Kajus Kublickas: 25 minutes, 23 points, 7 assists

  11. #2831

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuDux View Post
    Zalgiris-2 vs Prienai 80 84. 16-year-old Kajus Kublickas: 25 minutes, 23 points, 7 assists
    In few days he turns 17. He belongs to talented 2004 generation, with Buzelis, Murauskas and others. He's interesting. I spotted him when he played for Zalgiris in ANGT. Can go ISO, fluid athlete. Seems like American type of PG. Prienai may be young and it's preseason, but still LKL team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  12. #2832

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    For patient followers few highs of Ignas' brother Augustas Brazdeikis. Seems a bit more clumsy than Ignas at 16, but has the same going to the basket and scoring mindset, lefty. Hard to judge from this video, but a chance to see how he looks:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkUD...=EskandySports
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  13. #2833

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    Interesting first clash between Rytas and Zalgiris second teams.

    IDK, why Rubinas isn't in the main team already. Well, OK, for now it's still justifiable as he has to bulk up, but he's 100 times mote talented than some Adomavičius, it's not even close. IMO, long term Rytas option if this team won't screw as always.

    From Zalgiris Lelevicius was big. I like how he had 4 steals, he's a good defender. Another 2 ways prospect. What makes me optimistic about upcoming generations is that there's 2 way players in the horizon.

    (Realistically we never had many 2 way players ever. In 10's I think we didn't have a single 2 way player par excellence. Closest to that was Jankunas, Maciulis and Seibutis. But all three were defensive players in the NT barely making big impact offensively, with some exceptions as Maciulis in 2015 EB. Now I see Tubelis, Marciulionis, Lelevicius, Buzelis as real 2 way prospects. Players as Jokubaitis, D. Giedraitis, and I would even say Velicka (a bit inconsistent defensive motor though), are close to this definition. This makes me believe we may have more balanced decade.)

    Krivas playing really well as 16yo, T. Sargiunas is OK (he was included to the main Zalgiris team temporarily). Too bad Dominykas Stenionis injured, I really wanted to see how he will look this season in NKL. He had very bleak last season playing 13mpg, and then exploded in u19 WC. I want to see if he's a real deal prospect or just was in great shape this summer.


    http://www.nklyga.lt/rungtynes/ziure...algiris-2.html
    Last edited by Straight forward; 10-11-2021 at 11:24 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  14. #2834
    Senior Member LuDux's Avatar
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    Early NKLyga leaders

    Born 2004
    Krivas 24 mn, 11 pt, 11ef
    Keinys 24 mn 7 pt, 6 ef
    Kublickas 15 mn, 7 pt, 5 ef

    2003
    Kneižys 33 mn, 15 pt, 18 ef
    Lelevičius 28 mn, 16 pt, 15 ef
    Mažeika 28 mn, 13 pt, 10 ef
    Kiudulas 26 mn, 10 pt, 12 ef

    2002
    Rubinas 33 mn, 17 pt, 18 ef
    Preibys 30 mn, 12 pt, 13 ef
    Montvila 26 mn, 10 pt, 11 ef

    2001
    Pleikys 31 mn, 18 pt, 29 ef
    Šimonis 32 mn, 17 pt, 15 ef
    Leščiauskas 30 mn, 15 pt, 15 ef

  15. #2835

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    From all this list I see one premium prospect without any doubts and that's Lelevicius. Krivas is super traditional, there's no much future for such breed. Maybe, there's something in Kublickas also, but Lelevicius is the only one that I would 80-10% sure that he will become long term piece for Lith NT. He is still skinny, but already does many good things. High upside prospect.

    Kniezys is simply already bulked and physically matured, pretty good decision maker, but unfortunately obviously too slow for high level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  16. #2836
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Krivas is super traditional, there's no much future for such breed.
    Uggghhh. More of this "I don't like his style of game regardless of his production or what he adds to the team". Me I focus on the bottom line - results as opposed to style/form.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 10-18-2021 at 05:08 AM.

  17. #2837

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    Looking long term, I decided to speculate which position is the most problematic for Lithuania heading forward and here's how I see things today. Putting down players randomly regarding the lines:

    PG: Velicka, Jokubaitis, Marciulionis
    SG: D. Giedraitis, I. Sargiunas, Rubstavicius
    SF: Brazdeikis, Sirvydis, Lelevičius
    PF: Buzelis, Sedekerskis, Kulboka, Murauskas, Masiulis
    C: Tubelis, Krivas, Blazevic

    Now, off course, this scheme is speculative. Some would include something else, some would exclude something. But the way I see it, our prospects at position 2 is at the highest risk. Not only we don't have guys who would be NBA or boderline NBA prospects, and we have such breed in all other positions, but even currently the position is rather thin knowing that the only reliable long term option is Grigonis, that's all. Ironically, 4 position (now treated as problematic) seems to be with the highest upside. Not only there lies absolutely best 5 stars prospect Buzelis, but also the position is really deep and specially knowing that Tubelis will also be able to cover it if needed.

    The lack of absolutely deadly shooting prospects is obvious. And it's a big threat. We know how much we achieved (and even underachieved despite many victories) with 00's shooting teams. Not only there's no even smell of new Macijauskas, but it's really hard to predict who of those guys will truly be at least good shooters. Obviously, D. Giedraitis, Sirvydis, Lelevicius, Kulboka are projected as a prospects having shooter prospects status. However, Giedraitis is an injury prone, Sirvydis has been inconsistent shooting vise, Lelevicius still too raw to judge even if he really has nice size and mechanics, and Kulboka probably the most stable, reliable and most tested shooting specialist we have today. I'm afraid that won't be enough and we will be looking closely at those other pieces expecting to cover this problem somehow and hoping that some guys (mentioned or not) would surprise and "come out from no-where".

    What I do like about upcoming generations that we can field good defensive lineups:

    Marciulionis
    D. Giedraitis, I. Sargiunas
    Lelevicius
    Buzelis, Sedekerskis
    Tubelis

    Even players as Jokubaitis, Velicka probably should be better than Mantas Kalnietis was defensively in 10's. Defensive side and creation should be the biggest Lithuanian BB improvements this decade. The decline might happen in character, coherence and attitude, but hopefully not too much. Very important to keep the traditions running. I wonder who would be those "bad boys" of new generation as Kleiza and Maciulis was. We'll have a bunch of vocal guys, but probably not a single pure "bad boy" as Maciulis was, who would put the physicality and competitivness to the edge at times for the sake of being tougher. Grigonis trying to step into those shoes currently. but he's too soft. He can't do that. Time will tell. Hope Marciulionis can grow into that role. He has some demons inside him, he can be tough on others.
    Last edited by Straight forward; 10-19-2021 at 01:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  18. #2838

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    Too bad it was closed exhibition game. It would fun to watch Tubelis, Krisa vs Marciulionis in NCAA environment:


    image uploader
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  19. #2839
    Senior Member Svajunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Too bad it was closed exhibition game. It would fun to watch Tubelis, Krisa vs Marciulionis in NCAA environment:


    image uploader
    Marciulionis looks bigger.

  20. #2840

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    Quote Originally Posted by Svajunas View Post
    Marciulionis looks bigger.
    He does. NCAA pays a lot of attention to physical preparation. Now it's the key moment around 20 when guys adding additional weight and getting close to their optimal size. Some loses explosiveness, agility, some adds it with bigger muscles. Very hope that this transition will be successful and Augis won't lose his sneaky athleticism. Velicka and Jokubaitis passed this exam successfully, now it's time to see what happens with Marciulionis. Few moments where you can see how he looks. Azualas smooth three's on the money:

    https://twitter.com/ArizonaMBB/statu...81711267942401
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

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