EL 2022/23 - Gameday 10

[Levenspiel]

Well, we got to see the outcome of Virtus playing the final few minutes without Milos tonight...

Micic stole the show this time

[ronmercer80]

Well, we got to see the outcome of Virtus playing the final few minutes without Milos tonight...

Without the big 3pt scored by Clyburn Bologna would have won this.

But the situation that should be underlined is that Bologna was becoming more and more menacing and when the score was 69-74 everything seemed to favor them notwithstanding the awful percentages till then. Not a great game by Efes, one of the "lazy" ones, otherwise they would have closed it.

And then? This time I think I don't need to describe what happened because I believe almost everyone saw it.

This is a talent I believe, to do the wrong thing at the worst moment. Perhaps it isn't his fault, he was born with a curse.

[Toruko]

Very bad game finisher of Micic again. I think I have never seen such a talented guy being so inconsistent. My boi Clyburn was again there when he was needed. One man army...

Very bad defense of both teams. Plei?, ok having given him a contract after his final game last season but Polonara and Zizic didnt work at all. Zizic and Plei? cant really defend a shit and the backcourt lose to easily on the defensive end. I still insist on sending Zizic away and signing a good athletic big. Zizic is trash!

[Jazz]

Without the big 3pt scored by Clyburn Bologna would have won this.

But the situation that should be underlined is that Bologna was becoming more and more menacing and when the score was 69-74 everything seemed to favor them notwithstanding the awful percentages till then. Not a great game by Efes, one of the "lazy" ones, otherwise they would have closed it.

And then? This time I think I don't need to describe what happened because I believe almost everyone saw it.

This is a talent I believe, to do the wrong thing at the worst moment. Perhaps it isn't his fault, he was born with a curse.

Most geniuses seem flawed in some way. Anyway, the fact that the Virtus fans sing his name even in moments like that suggests they accept those flaws, because the upside is so spectacular. And that's appreciation from one of the most passionate crowds in world basketball.

[janketa]

From the start of the season I am writing about zizic nd Polonara as junk players and big mistake by Efes. Even bigger mistake wes releasing Singleton and Anderson.

But, regarding Mbaye is playing more or less on the same level as Singleton, in offense even better, then could be said that him and Polonara(with limited role he is playing) is some kind of improvement over Singleton and Moerman.

Problem with Zizic is that Ataman still using him more then he deserves, because he isn't even on Petrusev's level, but maybe he wants to prove paying buyout was right. The 2nd stupidest buyout after Wilbekin

[Levenspiel]

Maybe a bit to be a contrarian, but I think it's too early write Zizic off. Let's see him with Larkin, who's a boost for any center who knows how to position himself. Defensively, he's slow, and there needs to be some sacrifices from the guards to cover the area Zizic cannot return to after a show-up, but let's remember Ataman won two titles with Pleiss, who was/is notorious with his lack of defense, against teams which were packed and were supposed to dominate in the paint. I see those adjustments in the last 3 games, excellent defensive sequences with this "softie" roster.

On the other hand, watching Nebo, and knowing he was an option for Efes, I feel a bit jealous. But again, I have a feeling Ataman chose Zizic over Nebo. Maybe he thought he can fix defense, as he has always done (very underrated in this area).

My only concern is that Ataman is a stubborn character and once he writes someone off, it usually remains that way (Petrusev, Peters, almost all Turkish players, etc). If Polonara and Zizic can survive this period, then I am hopeful they will be able to contribute.

PS. There are rumors about Osmani and Sipahi (two Albanians with Turkish passports) to refurbish the domestic roster, but I really hope this doesn't happen. They will rot in the bench.

[saras]

Derrick Williams is by far the most skilled player in the league. His offensive gameplayis nowhere near anyone else's in euroleague. We knew that, americans knew that too,thats why he was drafted as numer 2. The problem with him in the nba was his mindset and his lazyness and thats the reason he didnt succeed there even tough he didnt start so bad in the bad. His shooting inconsistency was something everyone could see. This summer he worked hard on that in his country to improve his shooting. He is averaging 45% so far and its not that he doesnt shoot at all. he averages 5 attempts per game. In the start of the season he did what he does all this year many times. After getting the rebound he started running the floor like he is a guard which resulted in turnovers, he also forced many shots which he shouldnt. But now he has stopped that, he even plays defence quite well (he was the one who guarded milos in the last possesion of normal time vs virtus and was also the one who guarded lundberg in the last possesion in overtime). He also seems to start building a good connection with the crowd and as victories come more people will be in the court, which will result in even bigger passion passing from fans to players and williams himself.

So far he is having his best season in terms of scoring, fg%, 3pt%, rebounds, assists, rating and seems to be one of the best pf in the league so far. He never stayed a second season in the same team in europe, but hopefully he does stay with us next season as well and we add another pf next to him. eric pasqual we tried to sign this summer would be great. cause team suffers when williams needs to rest, giorgos kalaitzakis is not a PF and he doesnt do anything anyway apart from ball pressure and bacon who plays some minutes as PF is weak in the post against taller and bigger opponents. radonic should activate mantzoukas until we get another PF (mitoglou decision will be announced in the next 20 days and then he will sign with the team if hopefully his ban is only 1 year)

[rk2r7]

Williams played the best season in Europe while under Radonjic(in Bayern). His good games in PAO just tell that Radonjic knows how to use him the best. Idk why he didn't brought him to Zvezda. There were some rumors, but probably it wasn't financially possible.

[Toruko]

PS. There are rumors about Osmani and Sipahi (two Albanians with Turkish passports) to refurbish the domestic roster, but I really hope this doesn't happen. They will rot in the bench.

Sipahi is not EL material but Osmani will join Efes sooner or later and with this big rotation Osmani will get a lot of chances even though he will struggle till he gets used to the level. Osmani actually makes a lot of sense till he can also play under the rim. He will surely not rot in the bench.

[janketa]

Between Polonara and Osmani I would pick Osmani any day and night, much better player and sharp shooter. Not perfect of course, still need to work on some issues, But compared with Kokoskov boy Polonara he is MJ

[Levenspiel]

Regardless of their talent, they will be making a career-ending mistake if they come to Efes. Ataman's history with both the local players and the young prospects is very telling. Except for Serta? Şanlı, do we know any player who actually performed well? I can't believe there's not a single local player who deserves 10mpg in the EL. His non-trusting attitude breaks the will of players.

[Jazz]

Regardless of their talent, they will be making a career-ending mistake if they come to Efes. Ataman's history with both the local players and the young prospects is very telling. Except for Serta? Şanlı, do we know any player who actually performed well? I can't believe there's not a single local player who deserves 10mpg in the EL. His non-trusting attitude breaks the will of players.

Ataman giving Piskin some minutes against Real will always be the exception that proves this rule.

Also... Sipahi again? It seems like the Turkish Euroleague teams will always be fascinated with him.

[Toruko]

Osmani is not a prospect. He is 24 year old and he will have to try out EL anyway and there is a historical need of his skill set right now. Ataman surely gives players playing time when they contribute and Osmani is at the level of trying it out. He showed in many NT games that he can compete with high level players. Will he have to adapt? Without a doubt but Efes needs to implement some local players.

Tuncer is history. G?ven is a lazy ass who hadnt deserved Efes in the first place. Ilyasoglu doesnt seem to be contribute either. There are just a bunch of player who could really develop. The most ready guys are surely Osmani and Bitim. I wouldnt recommend Bitim to come to Efes this early although he could contribute but Osmani needs to be tried out. The next guys would be Kabaca who needs to play some years so GS is the right place for him for now. For Buyuktuncel its also too early.

For Osmani Ataman will get him sooner or later. Surely next season so getting used to Efes environment right now would be good to have a good start next season.

[Toruko]

Ataman giving Piskin some minutes against Real will always be the exception that proves this rule.

Also... Sipahi again? It seems like the Turkish Euroleague teams will always be fascinated with him.

Well, there is no real talent in the point guard position in Turkish bb right now who could contribute and Sipahi is the best what we have right now not knowing Mert Akays situation after his injury. I am not a big fan of Sipahi playing for Efes or FB but there is nobody else.

[Levenspiel]

It doesn't matter how good Osmani is. Efes is the wrong destination. He can try other EL clubs, abroad, which I think would be a smart choice for many like him.

Bitim almost quit playing bball at Efes, he was more busy making videos with his girlfriend than hoping for playing time. Now he is rocking. Dzanan Musa is about the same. Metecan Birsen, Saybir, etc etc so many examples. And many others have already disappeared. It's just the wrong place. Except for the legendary Pişkin

[janketa]

It doesn't matter how good Osmani is. Efes is the wrong destination. He can try other EL clubs, abroad, which I think would be a smart choice for many like him.

Bitim almost quit playing bball at Efes, he was more busy making videos with his girlfriend than hoping for playing time. Now he is rocking. Dzanan Musa is about the same. Metecan Birsen, Saybir, etc etc so many examples. And many others have already disappeared. It's just the wrong place. Except for the legendary Pişkin

I have to disagree this time

Every player from the list got his chance but didn't use it. We could add Tuncer why not, Ataman gave him minutes and wasted it. Unlike Sanli who was patient in waiting but from the moment he got it(after Dunston injury) he showed true quality.

If we are talking about players without clear EL capacity Efes is wrong place, in that I am with you 100%. Expecting to develope skills in the team like efes with constant pressure on result is mission impossible for them.

But Osmani is already developed player who could give much better impact then some frontcourt foreigners there. He is already better then Polonara and Zizic and Ataman knows that.

[Levenspiel]

I think the issue lies in the fatal combination of foreign player quota & non-competitive mentality of Turkish players.

They get really good contracts from Efes because of this quota, and know they have a place in the roster no matter how or how much they play. so, this takes away the pressure of "having to earn a living". They don't have to work for it. Now, a player should have other ambitions, too, beside the money, such as to improve and get an actual playing time. here Ataman comes into the picture. He'll play Clyburn or Larkin or whomever for 35mins in a meaningless local game or in a 20-point differential rather than giving a chance to the locals. So, a guy who is making millions and does not see the possibility of playing anyway just loses the will to improve. He gets rusted. When the opportunity comes, he looks abysmal out there. Then Ataman comes and says, "see, I played them and they screwed up." it's a vicious cycle.

Considering Ataman won't change, the only way to break it to push hard no matter what, and wait for an opportunity. Like Sertac did. This is however very rare unfortunately among us.

[Toruko]

This is all true. Ataman doesnt try to win players thats why they need to come ready. I would never recommend backcourt players to go to Efes because they will really rot in the bench but for bigs there will be plenty of chances and Ataman doesnt hate Turkish players. He just give up on them after a while. Yeah having a lazy attitude is indeed a problem of Turkish players but the guy is not a ordinary Turkish guy. He is developed in Bandirma and has played in every team he was. Why Efes? Its easy. First we need to implement local players no matter what. PAOs most of the local players are not a bit ready and they got their 10 minutes. We need to develop a certain habit too. Second, we will have to deal with these windows and we cant expect foreign clubs to send them to the NT within the season.

I understand the fear but the fear shouldnt prevent the guys from trying out. Efes just had no really ready guy so far. One exception should have been Gecim but he is an injury prone so he doesnt count at all.

[janketa]

I think the issue lies in the fatal combination of foreign player quota & non-competitive mentality of Turkish players.

They get really good contracts from Efes because of this quota, and know they have a place in the roster no matter how or how much they play. so, this takes away the pressure of "having to earn a living". They don't have to work for it. Now, a player should have other ambitions, too, beside the money, such as to improve and get an actual playing time. here Ataman comes into the picture. He'll play Clyburn or Larkin or whomever for 35mins in a meaningless local game or in a 20-point differential rather than giving a chance to the locals. So, a guy who is making millions and does not see the possibility of playing anyway just loses the will to improve. He gets rusted. When the opportunity comes, he looks abysmal out there. Then Ataman comes and says, "see, I played them and they screwed up." it's a vicious cycle.

Considering Ataman won't change, the only way to break it to push hard no matter what, and wait for an opportunity. Like Sertac did. This is however very rare unfortunately among us.

That's all true, in fact I think the same, it's not just Efes, the same situation is in Fener. Or what to say about Partizan for instance, with still much bigger base of talents then our clubs(history, tradition, popularity, system etc) I think 8 or 9 foreigners play most of the minutes under Zoc. Ataman isn't big exception

Regarding Ataman I must say(I am not proud on that) that I always bashed him and on the edge of hating for his way of coaching. I am still thinking he is mediocre coach.

But his results proved there is something special in him. Mediocre coach with not top4 budget won two times in a row and with big probability for three-peat, without cheap domestic players.

[Axl Rose Is God]

Derrick Williams is a joke, and always will be