View Poll Results: The new EuroBasket champion is?

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  • Spain

    11 64.71%
  • France

    6 35.29%
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Thread: The Final: Spain - France

  1. #1
    Administrator Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Default The Final: Spain - France

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    France 4.5 favorite and I think rightfully so. Much has been made of the series history but in all fairness this Spanish version besides Rudy doesn’t have much of a history with France. Those guys are gone. Spain is going to need another similar MVP like performance from Brown and probably Willy’s best game of the tournament to win. I don’t see it. France is one year removed from winning the Olympic silver medal and although missing Nando and Batum they still have the other key players like Fournier, Yabusele and Gobert back.
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    Collet is our hope

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    France confuses me.They are capable of playing the most suffocating defense out of all teams and then find rhythm on offence,but they make so many dumb and cheap turnovers,they remind second division teams sometimes.Spain has the momentum and have looked way more convincing in the knock out stage but i hope for the sake of European basketball that France wins.If FIBA windows Spain plus a D level USA player win,it says it all about the current state of European basketball.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    France, one of the top 2 favorites from the start, is going to win the title. As the trounament progresses, surprises and cinderella teams decrease accordingly. Yes, you can eliminate a better team in a K.O. game, but you can't don that indefinitely. Hence the final between France and Spain. But France is the strongest one. The talent and skillset will eventually pull through. Much the same like the final between Argentina and Spain in the previous World Cup.

    Eventually that's all that matters. It's about winning the title.
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    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon_Koncak View Post
    France confuses me.They are capable of playing the most suffocating defense out of all teams and then find rhythm on offence,but they make so many dumb and cheap turnovers,they remind second division teams sometimes.Spain has the momentum and have looked way more convincing in the knock out stage but i hope for the sake of European basketball that France wins.If FIBA windows Spain plus a D level USA player win,it says it all about the current state of European basketball.
    2 best defensive teams in the final. 20's will be ruled by the teams which can get their shit together defensively; make excessive relying on threes look shallow. Kinda feel that France might find ways to make Brown's life a bit harder. But overall Spain has been looking more convincing during the tournament.
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    France 4.5 favorite and I think rightfully so. Much has been made of the series history but in all fairness this Spanish version besides Rudy doesn’t have much of a history with France. Those guys are gone. Spain is going to need another similar MVP like performance from Brown and probably Willy’s best game of the tournament to win. I don’t see it. France is one year removed from winning the Olympic silver medal and although missing Nando and Batum they still have the other key players like Fournier, Yabusele and Gobert back.
    France has no chance: we don't miss FTs when the game is on the line. Their best weapon is useless against us.

  8. #8
    Senior Member achinet's Avatar
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    Whatever you think, this championship is already a resounding success for Spain. Initially nobody gave anything for Spain in this championship (as in the World Cup). It's about time the gallons were respected.

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    If Spain gets another MVP performance from Brown, they will be closer to win, because Brown creates a lot of space for other players that are not known as shot creators. If I'm Collet, then I'm playing all my defense on Brown as soon as he steps on my halfcourt.

    France is not a good offensive team and has a lot of empty minutes throughout game, which is a chance for Spain to make significant runs aganstt them. The troubling part for Spain is that it feels like France still hasn't played their best game of the tournament (not counting Poland), and they might have found the bast form when it matters the most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    France, one of the top 2 favorites from the start, is going to win the title. As the trounament progresses, surprises and cinderella teams decrease accordingly. Yes, you can eliminate a better team in a K.O. game, but you can't don that indefinitely. Hence the final between France and Spain. But France is the strongest one. The talent and skillset will eventually pull through. Much the same like the final between Argentina and Spain in the previous World Cup.

    Eventually that's all that matters. It's about winning the title.
    France never was top 2 favorite: Serbia, Slovenia and Greece were the trio. Really clear before the Eurobasket and also before the elimination rounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Breogan View Post
    France never was top 2 favorite: Serbia, Slovenia and Greece were the trio. Really clear before the Eurobasket and also before the elimination rounds.
    Check the power rankings thread and you will revisit your comment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paspalj View Post
    Check the power rankings thread and you will revisit your comment.
    This might be thought before the tournament but after the first games everyone knew that France is not a top 3 team FiBA as well.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Furkan Korkmaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achinet View Post
    Whatever you think, this championship is already a resounding success for Spain. Initially nobody gave anything for Spain in this championship (as in the World Cup). It's about time the gallons were respected.
    Yeah I think I was the only one who put Spain in my top 4 power ranking before the tournament started, but as 4th, definitely not as top 2 lol. Everyone else put Greece in there for some reason I never understand. I had put France as 1... Though neither France or Spain necessarily impressed what matters are the results, and in that regard they’re right back at the top.

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    Most of you are missing what made Spain so successful in this championship. It is two things. Scariolo and the bench. Spain has no stars but the best coach and the best bench.

    One figure from the semifinals. Lorenzo Brown a +/- of -7, while Alberto Díaz had a +25.

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  15. #15
    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    The truth of the matter is that Spain, so far, has beaten only three reasonable teams. That's Turkey, Germany, and Lithuania in OT. Most people put Spain close to those teams in rankings. So nothing remarkable there. They never beat, France (yet), Serbia, Slovenia or Greece. Spain in my view is still second tier. And France never played according to their potential, until the semi's. If this tournament is going to be played out 5 times, we could have had 5 different results. Being in the final does not mean you are top 2 in power rankings. Although Spain's record is quite good.

    In an annual competition system the standings would be:
    Spain 7-1
    Greece 6-1
    France 6-2
    Germany 6-2
    Serbia 5-1
    Slovenia 5-2
    Poland 5-3

    Followed by teams with more losses and less games. The power rankings were not far off.
    Last edited by Victorious; 09-17-2022 at 01:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cojayar View Post
    One figure from the semifinals. Lorenzo Brown a +/- of -7, while Alberto Díaz had a +25.
    .
    Excellent evidence of how plus minus is the most overrated stat. Brown played 34 of the 40 minutes while Diaz played half that amount at only 17. Basically he was a spectator for a majority of the game. Plus minus numbers don’t tell the story especially for bench players because their playing time is limited and the time that they actually do play in many cases is against the other players bench. The stats is a good indicator to see if your bench was a positive or a negative but never the main determining factor in a game. That’s why they are in the bench. If they were good enough they would log the starters minutes. In this specific case Diaz played under 3 minutes in the entire first half. He was excellent in the second half and a big part of the victory. But Alonzo Brown played 34 minutes basically the entire game. Nobody else even played more than 23 minutes lol. It was Brown reason A for the win and a team effort reason B.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usagre View Post
    Excellent evidence of how plus minus is the most overrated stat. Brown played 34 of the 40 minutes while Diaz played half that amount at only 17. Basically he was a spectator for a majority of the game. Plus minus numbers don’t tell the story especially for bench players because their playing time is limited and the time that they actually do play in many cases is against the other players bench. The stats is a good indicator to see if your bench was a positive or a negative but never the main determining factor in a game. That’s why they are in the bench. If they were good enough they would log the starters minutes. In this specific case Diaz played under 3 minutes in the entire first half. He was excellent in the second half and a big part of the victory. But Alonzo Brown played 34 minutes basically the entire game. Nobody else even played more than 23 minutes lol. It was Brown reason A for the win and a team effort reason B.
    Absolutely! I'm so hating people who just sneak in for +/- stat (or efficiency) and they make conclusions. Just watch the game. Sometimes a player who has few efficiency points is the most hardworking defensive player on the court, receiving all the fouls at the right moment, etc.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Absolutely! I'm so hating people who just sneak in for +/- stat (or efficiency) and they make conclusions. Just watch the game. Sometimes a player who has few efficiency points is the most hardworking defensive player on the court, receiving all the fouls at the right moment, etc.
    Efficiency is a descent indicator since it incorporates a lot but as a stand alone not so much. I like to add minutes played and efficiency to get a clear picture of who’s doing what for a team. For example Spain in the 3 knockout games averages (Throw out preliminary games)

    Lorenzo Brown. 56.3. (32/24.3)
    Willy. 46.3. (23/23.3)
    Juancho. 39.7. (26/13,7)
    Rudy. 36.0 (23/13.0)
    Garuba. 35.3. (19/16.3)
    Diaz. 28.0. (18/10.0)
    Arostegui. 28.0. (22/6.0)
    Brizuela. 21.0. (16/5.0)
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  19. #19
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    Rudy Gobert has been a beast in the knockout games. Throw out the Poland game which amounted to 40 minutes of garbage time and against Turkey and Italy he is averaging:

    32 min. 19.5 pts. 15.5 Reb. 2.0 Ast. 68% Fg. 25.0 efficiency.

    I think he continues this trend France wins and he is named MVP.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member R1ou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furkan Korkmaz View Post
    Yeah I think I was the only one who put Spain in my top 4 power ranking before the tournament started, but as 4th, definitely not as top 2 lol. Everyone else put Greece in there for some reason I never understand. I had put France as 1... Though neither France or Spain necessarily impressed what matters are the results, and in that regard they’re right back at the top.
    Yeah after all people used to put Turkey at top-6 meanwhile the last time they won a knockout game was back in 2014
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