View Poll Results: the winner is?

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  • Germany

    8 66.67%
  • Spain

    4 33.33%
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Thread: SF2: Germany - Spain

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srle View Post
    Brown literally saved Spain's butt against Lithuania and was the main reason for tonight's Spain win. I don't know what the hell you were watching. Yes, other countries have naturalized players too , and that rule should be voided. Unless player have the roots to the country he represents.
    Any definition that you give for "having roots", I can always find an exception btw. Belonging to a country means more than grandparents and place of birth.
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  2. #202
    Senior Member Furkan Korkmaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    Turkish fanbase hated Andersen, Devin Smith (who went on to dominate the EL with Maccabi), Huertel, Brown, who was elite, both before joining and after leaving Fener... so this tells me maybe it's not the player.
    Lol, there was absolutely nothing elite about Brown in Turkey. Yes he was great for Zvezda, he wouldn’t have been transferred otherwise, and yes that means it can’t be entirely the player’s fault, but also the coach or locker-room dynamics, however that doesn’t excuse him entirely, the objective fact remains that he was abysmal for his Turkish team, and no you can’t one dimensionally compare it to Heurtel or other players, because the hate he got was indeed disproportionate, but it is so because he was much better than Brown, and actually contributed to something, like making the play-off’s and even being competitive against that year’s finalist over 5 games.

  3. #203
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrell Armstrong View Post
    Your argument was that the success of Brown's naturalisation would create a cascade of similar cases. My counterargument is that the exact same thing happened 15 years ago, it's nothing new.
    That wasn't an argument, just an observation. The degree of naturalization in 2007 was not remotely close to what it is today. You missread it because you thought I was throwing shades on Spain, which I wasn't. I was just wondering from obvious given facts. But, since you want to go that way, if you think J.R. Holden stole you title in 2007, will you feel the same about France if Brown 'steals' the title for Spain? I bet you won't feel the same. Now, you see how irrelevant was your argument?

  4. #204
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furkan Korkmaz View Post
    Lol, there was absolutely nothing elite about Brown in Turkey. Yes he was great for Zvezda, he wouldn’t have been transferred otherwise, and yes that means it can’t be entirely the player’s fault, but also the coach or locker-room dynamics, however that doesn’t excuse him entirely, the objective fact remains that he was abysmal for his Turkish team, and no you can’t one dimensionally compare it to Heurtel or other players, because the hate he got was indeed disproportionate, but it is so because he was much better than Brown, and actually contributed to something, like making the play-off’s and even being competitive against that year’s finalist over 5 games.
    that's what I'm saying. He was better before and after, but not while in Turkey. This sometimes is due to the team's structure and the coach etc, sometimes the player, but other times, due to mass hysteria of fans. Now, everyone and their mothers hate Cedi Osman for example. I'm a person who criticized his attitude and loser mentality for years, but I feel like defending him now. it's just too much and too misplaced.
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  5. #205
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    Garuba proved today how important it is that your big can pass after a short roll. Teams with such a big have always the advantage

  6. #206
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    Pau Gasol's generation meant everything for Spanish basketball. That generation, along with fantastic talent, had incredible mentality and dedication to NT. Spanish NT is still picking fruits from the mentality, culture and dedication that was built by that generation. They basically set the tone for the next 20 years and passed it on the next generation, just what Fernandez is doing right now. When you see Rudy as a 36 y.o. jumping on his head, it's easy to understand what it's all about here.

  7. #207
    Moderator Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    Turkish fanbase hated Andersen, Devin Smith (who went on to dominate the EL with Maccabi), Huertel, Brown, who was elite, both before joining and after leaving Fener... so this tells me maybe it's not the player.
    David Andersen? IIRC he was already on the downslide when he arrived in Fener. Although he has a productive career after that, just not at his previous high EL level.

    Got to love that you included Heurtel on the list too!

  8. #208
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    After all even good Nick Galis did not set foot in Greece until the end of college...



    Back to the game, I re-watched it already.

    -I think honestly Dennis Schröder was perfect down the stretch, he always found the open teammates against the zone and even the one shot Toruko said was hero ball ended up, as a lot of airballs do, as a perfect assist to Theis, who then missed a layup 1 vs 0.

    -Before that scene again Theis had missed another point blank layup and before that again Theis missed a wide open elbow jumper. He also missed a dunk, which already at the first view made me scream at the TV. Already somewhat limited offensive player Daniel Theis, he was also very cold, should have come back in a lot earlier. Or better Voigtmann as a passer to bust the zone...

    -Way too many minutes for Weiler-Babb in the second half, who looked like a great defender in the first half because of a couple of steals, but was actually very poor on Brown.

    -But not as bad as Maodo Lo, who upon a second review was really the worst man on the court for Germany, getting torched even by Diaz when they removed him from Brown, mixing up rotations and switches. Unfair to pick on him after the tournament he played, but honestly Obst should have played more and he should have played less. It was not his night. Scored two threes when it was well too late, missed them all when they were needed to change the game.

    -Franz Wagner was cooking 1 vs 1 at the start of the fourth, with two baskets against Juancho to make it 75-68. The only other time he put the ball on the floor he also got fouled. I don't get all these fucking threes he needed to launch when we were tied at 77. Go get fouled! But he is 21 and he was probably anxious, growth experience.

    -The referees were not too bad, incredibly. But still the block on Garuba at 77-77 that gave 2 FTs and the lead to Spain for good was as clean as it gets and the offensive foul on Wagner in the fourth was just ridiculous. Sliding doors moments.

    - The praise for Diaz is surely deserved, he was super-important today, but I have to confess that he was kind of dirty a couple of times, undercutting Wagner mid-air (huge injury risk) and such.

    All in all the better executing team won. We had three 3pointers clang on the iron from Weiler-Babb, Lo, Wagner and the game was within reach and Brown made play after play. I am very frustrated by this.

  9. #209
    Senior Member fasoulaki's Avatar
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    Tragic player of this game was Theiss with bad decision in offense and defense. But Spain has very good team chemistry. This became obvious again. This picture tells it all:

    Last edited by fasoulaki; 09-17-2022 at 12:23 PM.
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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridirkulous View Post
    - The praise for Diaz is surely deserved, he was super-important today, but I have to confess that he was kind of dirty a couple of times, undercutting Wagner mid-air (huge injury risk) and such.
    That play in particular was anything but dirty. Díaz was dashing toward the ball and Wagner fell backwards. The Spanish player tried to stop but he had too much momentum and ended up in the spot Wagner was stumbling into. Díaz immediately noticed he had put Wagner in risk and was overly concerned for his well-being. If anything, it was a wholesome moment.

    Brizuela, on the other hand, was trying to get into Wagner's skin the few minutes he played, and I remember a couple shoves when the game was stopped that were completely out of hand.

  11. #211
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    Got to love that you included Heurtel on the list too!
    and I still write his name incorrectly. Heurtel fans, unite!
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