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QF2: Germany - Greece

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  • Originally posted by Toruko View Post
    Itoudis couldnt come up with a plan to integrate Giannis on the offensive system of the NT.
    Giannis had some nice and relatively easy opportunities to score in the third quarter but he failed. Many times 5-10. I think Itoudis fault was not in offense but in defense. He started to rise pressure in defense only mid of the 4th quarter. And it worked out. German lost the ball. The moment was chaning but then the moment came where Giannis was disaqualified from the game due to his hard foul on Thiemann. He should have rised defense intensity after 5 minutes in the third quarter. Play a zone press. Put Thanassis in to defend someone very closely.
    You live with the Freak you die with the Freak!!!

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    • Originally posted by Toruko View Post
      He didnt look very anxious either and he really was able to create for his team mates.
      Watch the third quarter again and you will see that after several failed theoretical easy attempts to score. He started passing to his teammates. He lost his confidence.
      You live with the Freak you die with the Freak!!!

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      • Originally posted by fasoulaki View Post
        Watch the third quarter again and you will see that after several failed theoretical easy attempts to score. He started passing to his teammates. He lost his confidence.
        Yeah he made some mistakes for sure. Took stupid 3 point attempts instead of going to the rim. He might have felt the pressure I dont deny it either and I never saw a Greek team getting 107 points but I dont talk about the German game significantly. It doesnt look like he got mixed to the group like Doncic did with Slovenia. About the German game I am totally with you.

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        • Originally posted by Toruko View Post
          It doesnt look like he got mixed to the group like Doncic did with Slovenia
          Yes I agree. First it is difficult to swallow such a big mountain and integrate it into the greek game system. His physical abilities match better to NBA defensive 3 second violation rules.
          For FIBA you need a reliable shooter like Dirk was. I am sure if they would have more time to adapat they would play better together.
          You live with the Freak you die with the Freak!!!

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          • Folks, it was just a bad defensive night for us, and an amazing night for Germany. It happens. That's the game and the nature of single elimination formats.

            I don't think there is any in depth analysis that needs to be done. If one of those two things was different (or both a little bit different), we would have won.

            As others have said here, it's important that we keep the same coach and the same core, we incorporate some new blood and just do better mentally next time. I believe that this comes easier with experience and cohesion.
            3rd, Euroleague IBN prediction game 2019

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            • He scored 31 points in 30 minutes. Lol. If you need him to score 40 to win you’re not going anywhere. His teammates are the problem. Dorsey is too streaky thus very inconsistent. Calathes, Sloukas and Papanikolaou have seen better days. Papagoannis has not developed as expected. Pappapetrou stinks. He is not carrying this cast to a Gold medal. A slip up was inevitable. They need help. I overrated their team big time.
              Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

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              • Pappapetrou stinks
                hahahahhahahahah I love you!

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                • Originally posted by usagre View Post
                  He scored 31 points in 30 minutes.
                  But he did not score in the crucial minutes. The most crucial minutes of the game were beginning of the 3rd quarter. But you are right. Nobody else apart from Larentzakis was able to give something to this team.
                  Last edited by fasoulaki; 09-16-2022, 01:58 PM.
                  You live with the Freak you die with the Freak!!!

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                  • Originally posted by fasoulaki View Post
                    But he did not score in the crucial minutes. The most crucial minutes of the game were beginning of the 3rd quarter. But you are right. Nobody else apart from Larentzakis was able to give something to this team.
                    The first quarter was crucial too and he scored 13 points to keep Greece from getting totally blown out with Germany’s hot start. He didn’t have a great game. But I can’t put too much on him. Yeah Larentzakis definitely did his part and then some.
                    Silver medal 2012 Olympics prediction game.

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                    • Originally posted by Toruko View Post
                      Itoudis couldnt come up with a plan to integrate Giannis on the offensive system of the NT. It looked like Kawhi with Toronto Raptors. The team played something and Giannis played something else but coaches alone are not the problem, not the only one at least.

                      My conclusion is that Greece doesnt provide the necessary surrounding to help Giannis.
                      Giannis is the top scorer of the tournament. If anything Itoudis did just fine on that regard. The stats speak for themselves. Almost 30 points per game. The only one player who comes close to Nick Galis. What's next? That Giannis has to average 40? The problem of all high quality teams is that they relied too much on their talent. I.e. offensive skillset. Deadly in a tournament like this.
                      PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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                      • Originally posted by Victorious View Post
                        Giannis is the top scorer of the tournament. If anything Itoudis did just fine on that regard. The stats speak for themselves. Almost 30 points per game. The only one player who comes close to Nick Galis. What's next? That Giannis has to average 40? The problem of all high quality teams is that they relied too much on their talent. I.e. offensive skillset. Deadly in a tournament like this.
                        I never blamed Giannis. You are lucky to have a humble player like him. I rather blamed his team mates who melted down his efforts and advantages that he created.

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                        • Originally posted by Toruko View Post
                          I never blamed Giannis. You are lucky to have a humble player like him. I rather blamed his team mates who melted down his efforts and advantages that he created.
                          I think blaming anyone is useless in this regard. In a series, I would say that you are right. But in one game it's just futile. Greece was one of the best teams in the tournament. They lost one game to the host team which had an amazing shooting night. Greece didn't play bad. There was no melt down. The competition system is wired in such a way that surprises happen.

                          I think Greece will be even stronger next year and the year after. But they can still loose any K.O. game against a team with such percentages.

                          Given the way Greece lost, I am quite satisfied with Greece's performance overall.
                          Last edited by Victorious; 09-18-2022, 11:14 AM.
                          PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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                          • Originally posted by Victorious View Post
                            I think blaming anyone is useless in this regard. In a series, I would say that you are right. But in one game it's just futile. Greece was one of the best teams in the tournament. They lost one game to the host team which had an amazing shooting night. Greece didn't play bad. There was no melt down. The competition system is wired in such a way that surprises happen.

                            I think Greece will be even stronger next year and the year after. But they can still loose any K.O. game against a team with such percentages.

                            Given the way Greece lost, I am quite satisfied with Greece's performance overall.
                            Whats the foundation of this optimism? Its an old team being one year older next year, other teams getting better and better and Greece cant expect much help from younger generations. Of course youll be good. Thats the point having Giannis in your team. Time flows and at the end our conclusion will probably be Greece could never win something with the best player in the world in his prime but if you are happy with the results I am too.

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                            • Originally posted by Toruko View Post
                              Whats the foundation of this optimism? Its an old team being one year older next year, other teams getting better and better and Greece cant expect much help from younger generations. Of course youll be good. Thats the point having Giannis in your team. Time flows and at the end our conclusion will probably be Greece could never win something with the best player in the world in his prime but if you are happy with the results I am too.
                              Teams getting better and better is in part wishful thinking of its fans. The same is true for people arguing that Greece is somewhat in its decline. I remember threads years back where people were predicting the best teams a couple of years from that moment. Greece wasn't one of them, according to the posters. And here we are, most of the teams are weaker than Greece, and it was expected from Greece to win a medal. So where does my optimism come from? Because the best player in the world in just entering his prime (27-33) years and Greece has a solid core around him (Mitoglou, Agravanis, Papagiannis, Kostas A., Papapetrou, Dorsey, Larentzakis) along with the fact that Sloukas (32) is not that old. More importantly, I believe that Greece needs continuation and cohesion more than a stronger roster. And by that I mean that Calathes, Sloukas' and Papanikolaou inevitable slow decline is negligible to the benefits of a team which plays together under the same coach for more years. And even if some of them quit after the Olympics, Giannis (the best player in the world) will only be 30 years old in 2025. Same age when Nick Galis won the Eurobasket. Same age Rudy Gobert is today. And allow me to believe that Greece will, as usual, produce new high quality guards by then. Or at least, good enough to assist Giannis in winning a title.

                              For now, continuation is the key. The Czechs, French, Spaniards, Germans etc. are at the current level because they have the same coach for years now. Greece is not going anywhere anytime soon. This is quite clear to me. This year was the start of a new cycle. And its core players can continue for a second Olympic cycle after that.
                              Last edited by Victorious; 09-18-2022, 01:30 PM.
                              PAO EUROPEAN CHAMPION 1996 - 2000 - 2002 - 2007 - 2009 - 2011

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                              • Originally posted by Victorious View Post
                                Greece didn't play bad.
                                The team chemistry improved a lot in comparison to 2019 but the team was still shaky in every game.

                                Originally posted by Victorious View Post
                                There was no melt down.
                                There was a mental melt down in the third quarter. German shooting percentages were high in the first half and average in the scond half. Greece just did not have the mental strength and concentration to score themselves in the third quarter. All players including Giannis and Dorsey aparat from Larentzakis failed.

                                Originally posted by Victorious View Post
                                I think Greece will be even stronger next year and the year after.
                                Hopefully they have more time for preparation and all players are healthy.

                                Originally posted by Victorious View Post
                                Given the way Greece lost, I am quite satisfied with Greece's performance overall.
                                No I am not statisfied because it was not a lack of abilities but a lack in psychology. Even after the 3rd quarter the point difference was only at 12. But they did not have the mental power to step up.
                                Last edited by fasoulaki; 09-18-2022, 03:13 PM.
                                You live with the Freak you die with the Freak!!!

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