NT Naturalizations

[Darrell Armstrong]

Rules are the same for everyone, but imho allowing 1 naturalised player was implemented primarily to help smaller countries to be more competitive. Slovenia not having big in 2 mio population, not enough people over 2.1 to produce solid big, looks more natural than Spain not having Pg in 47 mio.

It's not about the size of the country, but the pool of players. The goal is to raise the basketball level of the country. So it makes more sense to allow a naturalised player for huge countries with little basketball tradition, like India, than for small countries where basketball is already popular.

Simply taking into account the population has a couple obvious counterarguments: first of all, if you allow a naturalised player for Slovenia, how is that fair for Montenegro, which has one third of the population? And second, if Russia or even the USA have used naturalised players, how can you call it fair for Spain not to use the same rule to balance things a bit when facing them?

[Darrell Armstrong]

But at the end there’s always many hypotheticals, one thing stands and that’s saying it wasn’t meant to be.

That's exactly where I was getting to. There are too many variables that can affect the outcome of a tournament to confidently make claims such as "without player XXX you'd have lost". The only thing I can say is that almost every year I hear predictions like "Without Pau Spain won't be able to compete" or "Spain has no chance with such and such being older and washed up"; only for some other players to take over and carry Spain to a medal. I have no doubt, having failed to recruit Brown, we would still be competitive with another combination of players.

[Ridirkulous]

A stark contrast with the last Eurobasket, which Slovenia won without any help from any American without connections to their country... Oh the hypocrisy!

What hypocrisy? I criticise Slovenia too.

Even more, this thing pisses me off for all the legal immigrants who wait eternities to get citizenship. Some countries are consistent in their rules other not. FIBA’s rule should be the strictest one, not the most lenient, for fairness of competition.

[Killer Bob]

It's not about the size of the country, but the pool of players. The goal is to raise the basketball level of the country. So it makes more sense to allow a naturalised player for huge countries with little basketball tradition, like India, than for small countries where basketball is already popular.

Simply taking into account the population has a couple obvious counterarguments: first of all, if you allow a naturalised player for Slovenia, how is that fair for Montenegro, which has one third of the population? And second, if Russia or even the USA have used naturalised players, how can you call it fair for Spain not to use the same rule to balance things a bit when facing them?

I'm sure you understand that producing a big is almost impossible, if there's not enough big people in the population? Slovenia has no problems with guards, because pool is there big enough. I'm not sure, if there's 10 Slovenians over 2.1 between 22-35 years in the whole Slovenian population. Spain has no problems whatsoever with pool of Spanish players, so naturalisation doesn't have much sense.

[paspalj]

What hypocrisy? I criticise Slovenia too.

Even more, this thing pisses me off for all the legal immigrants who wait eternities to get citizenship. Some countries are consistent in their rules other not. FIBA’s rule should be the strictest one, not the most lenient, for fairness of competition.

That is a great point. As a person that has gone through all the bullshit bureaucracy to get citizenship in a foreign country it's very frustrating.

[Killer Bob]

That is a great point. As a person that has gone through all the bullshit bureaucracy to get citizenship in a foreign country it's very frustrating.

I'm 100% sure that world top engineers, doctors, physicists...have 0 problems to get whatever they want in Germany, if they emigrate there.

[paspalj]

I'm 100% sure that world top engineers, doctors, physicists...have 0 problems to get
whatever they want in Germany.

Are you talking about residency or passport?

[Killer Bob]

Are you talking about residency or passport?

Everything that you need for work and great life there. Basketball players need passport immediately, because Fiba demands it. It's like working visa for those players. If you're great engineer, you would get everything you want and eventually passport too, if you want it.

[Ridirkulous]

I'm 100% sure that world top engineers, doctors, physicists...have 0 problems to get whatever they want in Germany, if they emigrate there.

Bullshit. I am working in scientific research and I have many non EU friends working in Germany. Residence yes. Citizenship there is no fast track. If they had exemptions for those jobs there would be also for sport stars.

[paspalj]

Everything that you need for work and great life there. Basketball players need passport immediately, because Fiba demands it. It's like working visa for those players. If you're great engineer, you would get everything you want and eventually passport too, if you want it.

I am asking because although I'm not a top computer scientist, as a known cryptographer it was definitely easier for me to get residency but getting naturalized is the same process for everyone. It doesn't matter how good of a scientist you are.

[Killer Bob]

Bullshit. I am working in scientific research and I have many non EU friends working in Germany. Residence yes. Citizenship there is no fast track. If they had exemptions for those jobs there would be also for sport stars.

Sure, but you understand the difference. Basketball player needs passport to play basketball for NT. So they have to give to him. You give top engineers whatever they need and want to work in Germany too. All emigrants are for sure not in the same position.

[Darrell Armstrong]

I'm sure you understand that producing a big is almost impossible, if there's not enough big people in the population? Slovenia has no problems with guards, because pool is there big enough. I'm not sure, if there's 10 Slovenians over 2.1 between 22-35 years in the whole Slovenian population. Spain has no problems whatsoever with pool of Spanish players, so naturalisation doesn't have much sense.

That's not true. Average height in Slovenia is 5 cm taller than in Spain. Even though there are 20x more people in Spain, the number of people over 2m tall isn't that far away. Actually, I read somewhere that Slovenia was one of the top ten countries in percentage of tall people (over 180 cm). And from all the tall people, you have to take into account how many of them will choose a different sport over basketball.

Anyway, that's not the comparison I wanted to make. The spirit of that rule isn't to help small countries to win titles. Slovenia is a tremendously blessed country in terms of basketball players compared with dozens of countries where basketball is a minority sport.

[Killer Bob]

That's not true. Average height in Slovenia is 5 cm taller than in Spain. Even though there are 20x more people in Spain, the number of people over 2m tall isn't that far away. Actually, I read somewhere that Slovenia was one of the top ten countries in percentage of tall people (over 180 cm). And from all the tall people, you have to take into account how many of them will choose a different sport over basketball.

Anyway, that's not the comparison I wanted to make. The spirit of that rule isn't to help small countries to win titles. Slovenia is a tremendously blessed country in terms of basketball players compared with dozens of countries where basketball is a minority sport.

And you don't find interesting that Slovenia, with relatively big pool of players, had always problems with true Slovenian bigs?

[Darrell Armstrong]

And you don't find interesting that Slovenia, with relatively big pool of players, had always problems with true Slovenian bigs?

You have a problem now. But early XXI century you had a surplus of really good bigs: Nesterovic, Brezec, Slokar, Lorbek... They never seemed to be available for the NT, but you can't deny you were producing them.

[Killer Bob]

You have a problem now. But early XXI century you had a surplus of really good bigs: Nesterovic, Brezec, Slokar, Lorbek... They never seemed to be available for the NT, but you can't deny you were producing them.

No one new in last 15 years tells the whole story.