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Thread: Euroleague Power Rankings 2022-23

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfonsoFord View Post
    How can Gudaitis and Papagiannis be more diverse than i.e. Bolomboy that can play in 5 and when needed in 4 shooting 3 pointers? Pao has no such player in his roster.
    How can Fall, the second center of the French national team, have less quality than Papa when last year, he had the best games and numbers of his season against Papa?
    Walters, Grigonis and Ponitka are better individually than ie Sloukas, Vezenkov, Papanikolaou who have a number of Euroleague trophies and F4 appearences? Walters is better than Walkup and Ponitka so much better than Mackissic... i really cant remember a super season of Ponitka in the Euroleague and he's 29.
    Despite this, I really respect your views, of course we ll see what happens. Cheers!
    I did not specifically compare the players, but their abilities to create a game.

    Fall has one advantage over other centers in height, but here he has no advantage over Papagianni whose results are rising.
    Gudaitis is a different type of center than Papagiannis, the coach's question here is how they will be used.

    Papanikolaou has never been a creator, but his career is going downhill
    Sloukas is a pure attacking defenseman whose career is on the decline
    Mackissic is a very fast player, and his speed usually trumps his bad decisions.
    Walkup is physically strong and a good defender, but he is a slow "tree", shooting 1 in 10 times.
    Only one Vezenkov from this four of yours can compare with the aforementioned Panathinaikos trio in terms of skill in creating situations and being able to finish the attack by themselves.

  2. #82
    Senior Member MikeMaccabiFan's Avatar
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    From last games of Maccabi I have mixed feelings - potential is there, and with each game team looks better. Defensive potential looks better than last year, even though implementation is still lacking. In addition it is hard to have impressions when three players in Winner Cup games sit aside. But I do think Maccabi made a mistake letting Keenan Evans go. Right now, DiBa is first replacement for point guard position, and it hardly be enough for EL. Tonight there will be first game of Lorenzo Brown (nobody know how long he will play though) against Holon, hopefully we"ll see further improvement. I still have my doubts about Kattash, we"ll see I guess.
    Yalla Maccabi!!!

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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by G&B View Post
    I did not specifically compare the players, but their abilities to create a game.

    Fall has one advantage over other centers in height, but here he has no advantage over Papagianni whose results are rising.
    Gudaitis is a different type of center than Papagiannis, the coach's question here is how they will be used.

    Papanikolaou has never been a creator, but his career is going downhill
    Sloukas is a pure attacking defenseman whose career is on the decline
    Mackissic is a very fast player, and his speed usually trumps his bad decisions.
    Walkup is physically strong and a good defender, but he is a slow "tree", shooting 1 in 10 times.
    Only one Vezenkov from this four of yours can compare with the aforementioned Panathinaikos trio in terms of skill in creating situations and being able to finish the attack by themselves.
    Saying that Pap and Sloukas careers are declining after a season that these two literally lead Olympiakos to the F4 and to the Greek Double is at least inaccurate.
    Anyway, just a quick reminder.
    The books give Olympiakos as 4th-5th favourite for winning Euroleague with 8.0-10.0 odds (when Barca, Efes and Real are given at 4.00-5.00)
    They give Pao as the 11-13th favourite with 33.0-35.0
    Not even close and I think this is very indicative of what they expect comparing the rosters.
    The odds for Oly winning the Greek League, at the biggest Greek betting company (stoiximan), is 1.25 when for Pao is 3.90. Sometimes odds are beaten by reality (ie injuries) but all I'm saying is that the current estimation is that Oly is by far better.
    Anyway we'll soon see

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    In my oppinion Pappanikolaou was on his own top in seasons 11-12. 12-13. after that every season is two level under. Sloukas keeps his level from first season in Fenerbahce until last season in Olympiacos, he had extraordinary significance for good results of Olympiacos. he wasn't so good in Greece nt, but this is about injury, role, style of play, etc...

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfonsoFord View Post
    Saying that Pap and Sloukas careers are declining after a season that these two literally lead Olympiakos to the F4 and to the Greek Double is at least inaccurate.
    Anyway, just a quick reminder.
    The books give Olympiakos as 4th-5th favourite for winning Euroleague with 8.0-10.0 odds (when Barca, Efes and Real are given at 4.00-5.00)
    They give Pao as the 11-13th favourite with 33.0-35.0
    Not even close and I think this is very indicative of what they expect comparing the rosters.
    The odds for Oly winning the Greek League, at the biggest Greek betting company (stoiximan), is 1.25 when for Pao is 3.90. Sometimes odds are beaten by reality (ie injuries) but all I'm saying is that the current estimation is that Oly is by far better.
    Anyway we'll soon see
    what are the betting coefficients worth?, the European basketball championship showed

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemanja95 View Post
    In my oppinion Pappanikolaou was on his own top in seasons 11-12. 12-13. after that every season is two level under. Sloukas keeps his level from first season in Fenerbahce until last season in Olympiacos, he had extraordinary significance for good results of Olympiacos. he wasn't so good in Greece nt, but this is about injury, role, style of play, etc...
    After the European Basketball Championship, Lorenzo Brown seems Macabi is the biggest hope and the surprise factor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G&B View Post
    After the European Basketball Championship, Lorenzo Brown seems Macabi is the biggest hope and the surprise factor.
    It's questionable for every player, how much is possible to transpose level from nt on Eurobasket, in two weeks, to clubs in 8 months. Brown is mentioned before Eurobasket like possible acquisition of Partizan, I was so-so, from this point of the view probably would be good signing, but not rarely players who played especially good for national, of whom are expectations to keep level for clubs, they cannot shift in right way.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemanja95 View Post
    It's questionable for every player, how much is possible to transpose level from nt on Eurobasket, in two weeks, to clubs in 8 months. Brown is mentioned before Eurobasket like possible acquisition of Partizan, I was so-so, from this point of the view probably would be good signing, but not rarely players who played especially good for national, of whom are expectations to keep level for clubs, they cannot shift in right way.
    Undoubtedly, the coach of the Spanish team is of a higher level than Macabi, and also the front line that Lorenzo assisted in the Spanish team is of a higher level, so maybe he surprised with his abilities, which he will not be able to show in the Macabi club. But I think Lorenzo has really risen a level higher, at least gained confidence. In addition, I must say that his potential was visible in previous years as well, and in EC-2002 he was a real star who killed our national team after extra time, even before extra time, Butkevičius was eliminated due to penalties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G&B View Post
    Undoubtedly, the coach of the Spanish team is of a higher level than Macabi, and also the front line that Lorenzo assisted in the Spanish team is of a higher level, so maybe he surprised with his abilities, which he will not be able to show in the Macabi club. But I think Lorenzo has really risen a level higher, at least gained confidence. In addition, I must say that his potential was visible in previous years as well, and in EC-2002 he was a real star who killed our national team after extra time, even before extra time, Butkevičius was eliminated due to penalties.
    Lorenzo gave very good game in Winner Cup against Hapoel Holon with double-double of 13 points and 12 assists, simple game, good cooperation with Baldwin. And, suddenly, Maccabi is on 47% for 3p...There was a bit of drop in intensity in fourth quarter, and absolutely terrible referees, but it looks better. Maccabi still needs to find chemistry in defence (too much free penetrations), but I am hopeful.
    Yalla Maccabi!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemanja95 View Post
    It's questionable for every player, how much is possible to transpose level from nt on Eurobasket, in two weeks, to clubs in 8 months. Brown is mentioned before Eurobasket like possible acquisition of Partizan, I was so-so, from this point of the view probably would be good signing, but not rarely players who played especially good for national, of whom are expectations to keep level for clubs, they cannot shift in right way.
    Meanwhile I see him shifting well. After about two training days with a team to give 12 assists in about 20 minutes of game is very good. But of course it is a bit too early to be definite yet. I am waiting to see how he will play with Martin, Hollins and Hilliard (all three were sitting this game out).
    Yalla Maccabi!!!

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    1-4: efes,barcelona,real,armani
    5-6:monaco,olympiakos
    7-8: panathinaikos,fener
    9-12:virtus,bayern,valencia,baskonia
    13-15:maccabi,zalgiris,alba
    16-18: partizan,red star,villeurbanne
    Sasa Pukl for MVP

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by saras View Post
    1-4: efes,barcelona,real,armani
    5-6:monaco,olympiakos
    7-8: panathinaikos,fener
    9-12:virtus,bayern,valencia,baskonia
    13-15:maccabi,zalgiris,alba
    16-18: partizan,red star,villeurbanne
    As I wrote in another thread - I hope you will keep your hat fresh....
    Put Maccabi under Basconia, Valencia and Bayern is ridiculous.
    Yalla Maccabi!!!

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    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    I don't know what is with you guys?? I am not happy my team is ranked 8th or even lower but it's reality, people here aren't stupid(except some ex Fener football fans)

    Is Maccabi maybe better then 5th tier, I could agree with that, Partizan too, but it's realy hard to predict this season. I think 10-12 teams are F4 contenders and every team could reach play off

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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    I don't know what is with you guys?? I am not happy my team is ranked 8th or even lower but it's reality, people here aren't stupid(except some ex Fener football fans)

    Is Maccabi maybe better then 5th tier, I could agree with that, Partizan too, but it's realy hard to predict this season. I think 10-12 teams are F4 contenders and every team could reach play off
    I never said that Maccabi singlehandedly will take EL title. But we, as of today, will be playoff contender, and that is not bragging. Brown, Hilliard, Poythress, Baldwin are top tier EL players. Rest are promising. Potential for failure is there too, and I wrote about my doubts. But we have objectively better teams than Basconia, Valencia and Bayern (which might have better coach). Maccabi is going to fight for places 6-9, may be 5-9.
    Yalla Maccabi!!!

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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    I think 10-12 teams are F4 contenders and every team could reach play off
    Yes, that too, I think we all be smarter after few weeks of EL...On the other hand, everybody remembers how Efes started last season...And where they finished it...
    Yalla Maccabi!!!

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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeMaccabiFan View Post
    Yes, that too, I think we all be smarter after few weeks of EL...On the other hand, everybody remembers how Efes started last season...And where they finished it...
    Efes will start the same way again, until Larkin comes back. wouldn't be too surprised if they will be placed lower part of the standing in December

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    Efes will start the same way again, until Larkin comes back. wouldn't be too surprised if they will be placed lower part of the standing in December
    I think Efes will be somewhere mid-tier as a start, not as bad as last year. I base this on having Clyburn, mainly.
    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

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    Barca doesnt look very solid so far and this although Sertac Sanli performs well offensively. This is definitely the last dance of Jasikevicius if he doesnt win the domestic league or EL and Real looks much stronger.

    Efes is without Larkin still stable. They looked solid against Maccabi and FB. There will be a tight schedule after October but Larkins injury can turn out positive because you can find out the way you use Clyburn in the meantime and Larkin will be fresh at the end of the season.

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    Ataman said Efes could add a guard because of Larkin's injury, if management agrees... and they have 2-3 names on the table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Worrax View Post
    Ataman said Efes could add a guard because of Larkin's injury, if management agrees... and they have 2-3 names on the table.
    They will start without and look how things develop

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