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Thread: Turkish NT 2022

  1. #21
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    So no Özdemiroğlu nor Akay in the roster, but good news there are Saybir and Melih

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    Akay is injured and Özdemiroglu had a hand surgary.

    Big surprise Yigitoglu was added. Was not a big fan of him 2 years ago but he has NBA tools and developed unexpectedly well in the last 2 years. He needs several leaps to be called a solid big prospect though.

    Its also said Efes is trying to sign him.

  3. #23
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    I like Yigitoglu, he has size, feeling for space, basketball gene. Big mistake if he goes to Efes, Bursa would be ideal , smaller club with the coach who gives chance to prospects.

  4. #24
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    ÖFY answered honestly to the most controversial questions.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEW9Q6Z-IJ8

  5. #25
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    ÖFY answered honestly to the most controversial questions.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEW9Q6Z-IJ8
    Great insight from him on his departure from Fener. This proves one more time that the approach of Obradovic towards this subject was pathetic.
    Sports is not only considered as a superiority of physical capability. Perception, intelligence and morality assist it as well. The strong with less intelligence and comprehension can not cope with the less strong but with sufficient intelligence and comprehension. I like the sportsman who is intelligent, agile as well as morally upright.

    Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK

  6. #26
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    Yiğitoğlu is far from being a serious prospect for now. Good size, that's all. Very meaningless season in Macedonian League with the second team of MZT Skopje. I would like to see him in more competitive environment. Almost all of his opponents in that league couldn't cope with him size-wise, that's the reason he put acceptable stats yet he couldn't also dominate. I don't want to dismiss his potential, but he has a long way to go. I can name at least 5 Centers from '04 European generation who are better than him.

    He is coming back to Besiktas and NT atmosphere is good for him to test himself against the real senior level players. He has some issues with Besiktas right now, he doesn't want to play for Kandemir. Efes and Telekom are the two options. Efes is willing to pay considerable amount of buy-out which is a sure need for Besiktas to spend on incoming season's transfers.
    Sports is not only considered as a superiority of physical capability. Perception, intelligence and morality assist it as well. The strong with less intelligence and comprehension can not cope with the less strong but with sufficient intelligence and comprehension. I like the sportsman who is intelligent, agile as well as morally upright.

    Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK

  7. #27
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    Yiğitoğlu is far from being a serious prospect for now. Good size, that's all. Very meaningless season in Macedonian League with the second team of MZT Skopje. I would like to see him in more competitive environment. Almost all of his opponents in that league couldn't cope with him size-wise, that's the reason he put acceptable stats yet he couldn't also dominate. I don't want to dismiss his potential, but he has a long way to go. I can name at least 5 Centers from '04 European generation who are better than him.
    This is surely correct. He has indeed a long way to go but the point I dont agree is his year in Macedonia. Sure, he was not in a competitive environment at all but the year helped him to polish his movements and gave him a feeling for the game against grown man. I think every young player needs a year at least with heavy minutes. What I like is the combination of size and fast legs and I also think he could develop a solid mid range jumper eventually.

  8. #28
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    This is surely correct. He has indeed a long way to go but the point I dont agree is his year in Macedonia. Sure, he was not in a competitive environment at all but the year helped him to polish his movements and gave him a feeling for the game against grown man. I think every young player needs a year at least with heavy minutes. What I like is the combination of size and fast legs and I also think he could develop a solid mid range jumper eventually.
    I am ok with his minutes. He averaged 26.6 MPG which is a good thing for sure. But, minutes in relatively soft leagues don't translate into hard experience for higher level every time.

    Playing in TBL with a serious role (let's say 10-15 MPG) at the age of 18 would have greater effects on him than his Macedonian journey. As you know, most of the TBL teams using physically freak American bigs and minutes against them would mean much for everyone who evaluates him.

    I of course agree with the fact he polished his game and not a raw gem anymore. I will give him credit for having notable performances against hardened senior players like Aleksander Todorovic (11 P on him) and Robert Rikic (20 P on him). U-18 EC is the right platform to prove himself. A good tournament will definitely rise his stock. If he is that good, he must lead his team.
    Sports is not only considered as a superiority of physical capability. Perception, intelligence and morality assist it as well. The strong with less intelligence and comprehension can not cope with the less strong but with sufficient intelligence and comprehension. I like the sportsman who is intelligent, agile as well as morally upright.

    Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by slice me nice View Post
    I am ok with his minutes. He averaged 26.6 MPG which is a good thing for sure. But, minutes in relatively soft leagues don't translate into hard experience for higher level every time.

    Playing in TBL with a serious role (let's say 10-15 MPG) at the age of 18 would have greater effects on him than his Macedonian journey. As you know, most of the TBL teams using physically freak American bigs and minutes against them would mean much for everyone who evaluates him.

    I of course agree with the fact he polished his game and not a raw gem anymore. I will give him credit for having notable performances against hardened senior players like Aleksander Todorovic (11 P on him) and Robert Rikic (20 P on him). U-18 EC is the right platform to prove himself. A good tournament will definitely rise his stock. If he is that good, he must lead his team.
    What I like about him is that he doesnt shy away against phsysical opponents. When I think about Berke Atar for example he never liked playing against physical guys or Egemen Güven on the defensive end was the same. Samet needs to bulk up but for his age he has already developed his body to some extend. He lacks IQ and cant read defensive games at all but this will come with time. Fundamentals like boxing out, rebound positioning and especially pick and roll defense is problematic but his offensive positioning is not bad. He knows how to make himself available, his touch isnt bad either. I think he is ready next season for the BSL but surely not for Efes but hell struggle defensively a lot.

    The good is we have more than enough center so he can take his time. I am more excited about guys like Kerem Konan and Yigit Mestoglu because they are highly needed.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    What I like about him is that he doesnt shy away against phsysical opponents. When I think about Berke Atar for example he never liked playing against physical guys or Egemen Güven on the defensive end was the same. Samet needs to bulk up but for his age he has already developed his body to some extend. He lacks IQ and cant read defensive games at all but this will come with time. Fundamentals like boxing out, rebound positioning and especially pick and roll defense is problematic but his offensive positioning is not bad. He knows how to make himself available, his touch isnt bad either. I think he is ready next season for the BSL but surely not for Efes but hell struggle defensively a lot.

    The good is we have more than enough center so he can take his time. I am more excited about guys like Kerem Konan and Yigit Mestoglu because they are highly needed.
    Defensive potential takes more time to come to light for players who start playing basketball late like Yiğitoğlu. We still need at least one year to form an opinion about his defensive upside. His game understanding hasn't improved in maturity. I wouldn't compare Yiğitoğlu with Atar and Güven. Both Atar and Güven had terrible work ethics and they are same players as they were 5 years ago. Zero difference through years. Unlike Yiğitoğlu, they never thought leaving their comfort zones. Güven wanted everything to come to him without half trying in Karşıyaka (He even didn't want to be loaned to another team) and Atar posed like he was already a star-caliber player without proving anything in senior level basketball. I criticize Yiğitoğlu's choice for location nonetheless, seeking new adventures at this age means a lot. Work ethic is a skill and Yiğitoğlu proves he got this one. I don't think his potential ability is so high, but whatever his potential ability is, he will reach that one way or another.

    I find Konan a bit overrated. I don't think he is a savior as stated before. Positionless player for now. I don't see him as a true forward. It is either a good thing for him or not. Depends how they will improve. He can be used in different positions and excel as Swingman or he will disappear. Only time will tell. He is another player I will watch closely this summer in NT. Potential is sure there but I would take Mestoğlu over him day and night. Mestoğlu is a great frame for SF/PF which we need a lot.
    Sports is not only considered as a superiority of physical capability. Perception, intelligence and morality assist it as well. The strong with less intelligence and comprehension can not cope with the less strong but with sufficient intelligence and comprehension. I like the sportsman who is intelligent, agile as well as morally upright.

    Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK

  11. #31
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    I am not basketball expert and never was professional basketball player(one year spent in youth categories then quit because more important things had to be solved), but some problems are obvious even for guy like me.

    Generaly speaking our youth players are very bad shooters. Consequence of that in our NT the best shooter is Sanli (excluding Larkin who is foreigner). In normal circumstances he should be 4th or 6th option as center.

    The main problem in Turkey is working with youth categories. Coaches( thousands of them) are bellow for instance their Lituanian or Serbian colleagues. That's why we have prospects who never finish development in natural way, they disappear or stuck on mediocre level until retire.

    Country with 80+ milions people with 2 top10 clubs in Europe has big potential to have strong NT, but for that Turkoglu and co must do much better work in core base of the problem and that is work with youngsters. You can bring 4 or five foriegn coaches in BSL clubs, even all coaches could be foreigners but that won't solve the problem.

    I can't remember that we had pure shooter after Serkan retired for instance. In last 10 or 15 years all our basketball schools and population couldn't make one single great shooter.
    Some of our tall guys make careers just because physical and mental attributes, but short ones stuck because they are not capable to match better educated mates from historic basketball countries.

    Hazer for instance, pure talent in all aspects but someone in his early basketball years didn't teach him to core of shooting technics and mechanics. Now in this age(even if he is still young) can't make it up. It's too late. With better shooting he could be among top5 small guard in Europe, considering his other qualities. Or centers, Omer Asik, NBA player, could make FT just in wet dream maybe, mid range jump shoot I believe he never took in his life. Just two examples from hundreds.
    Last edited by janketa; 06-20-2022 at 06:51 PM.

  12. #32
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    Turkish National Team started practices with all players except Larkin and Sertaç. I think he is in USA now and participate to the team later.

  13. #33
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    Generaly speaking our youth players are very bad shooters. Consequence of that in our NT the best shooter is Sanli (excluding Larkin who is foreigner). In normal circumstances he should be 4th or 6th option as center.
    Come on, you just can't call a spot up shooter who has 1.6 3-PT attempt per game as the best shooter except Larkin. He is a good option on offense, but nothing more than that. He is already one of the secondary options on offense after the shooting gang of Larkin, Osman and Korkmaz when it comes to shooting.

    The main problem in Turkey is working with youth categories. Coaches( thousands of them) are bellow for instance their Lituanian or Serbian colleagues. That's why we have prospects who never finish development in natural way, they disappear or stuck on mediocre level until retire.
    As I said before, Turkish youth coaches must accept the fact that basketball has changed a lot over years. You just can't raise a elite basketball player with the techniques remained from 90s basketball. Basketball is still the game of the bigs in Turkey. Dribbling, shooting and passing have less importance in the eyes of youth coaches. I don't say these skills are not important for them, but at youth categories relying on physical dominance is easier way to reach success. Teams are formed around bigs and the rest is expected to feed the big men. Most of the youth coaches especially under-12 categories don't have any aim to raise a player. Winning the games is the only thing that matters for them. They think W/L ratio specifies how good coaches are they, mostly because of job loss fear (maybe). People are way too result-oriented in youth setup, both players, coaches and families. The ones who see the things from wider angle is close to come out better off in the long term. Basketball education at the ages between 8-12 is quite important because basketball fundamental forms between those ages and after that it is harder to change the main fundamental that already been learned. Thanks, we still have good number of coaches in big clubs who are knowledgeable, observant, enthusiastic and aware of the changes in basketball concepts and try to change end product players into completely different players. If coaches could have the same approach towards players at their first basketball education, things would be easier for us. Teaching basketball fundamental at the age of 13-14 is terrible. Waste of time. I see that even in the big basketball youth setups like Tofaş or Yeşilyurt.

    Hazer for instance, pure talent in all aspects but someone in his early basketball years didn't teach him to core of shooting technics and mechanics. Now in this age(even if he is still young) can't make it up. It's too late. With better shooting he could be among top5 small guard in Europe, considering his other qualities. Or centers, Omer Asik, NBA player, could make FT just in wet dream maybe, mid range jump shoot I believe he never took in his life. Just two examples from hundreds.
    Even if Hazer could shoot a little bit more consistent, he wouldn't be a elite player for sure. He doesn't have ball control, barely beat his opponent in 1v1 or his court vision is below-average. Beside all his liabilities, his energy, defense and explosiveness are pros that make him useful player. He has defects in his basketball fundamental except shooting part aswell.
    Sports is not only considered as a superiority of physical capability. Perception, intelligence and morality assist it as well. The strong with less intelligence and comprehension can not cope with the less strong but with sufficient intelligence and comprehension. I like the sportsman who is intelligent, agile as well as morally upright.

    Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK

  14. #34
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    Hazer was never a guy who was supposed to play much with the ball. He did it this season a bit but in his Banvit season with Filipovski he was mostly the cutter and finisher. Turkish guards had always issues with ball control or other fundamental skills. I remember times when Ender Arslan was compared to Tony Parker.

    Was very hopeful about Baris Ermis in his youth time but he never had his break out season. We cant raise any guards and this must change. Talent is there but we must send them to Greece or Serbia in younger years.

  15. #35
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slice me nice View Post
    Come on, you just can't call a spot up shooter who has 1.6 3-PT attempt per game as the best shooter except Larkin. He is a good option on offense, but nothing more than that. He is already one of the secondary options on offense after the shooting gang of Larkin, Osman and Korkmaz when it comes to shooting.



    As I said before, Turkish youth coaches must accept the fact that basketball has changed a lot over years. You just can't raise a elite basketball player with the techniques remained from 90s basketball. Basketball is still the game of the bigs in Turkey. Dribbling, shooting and passing have less importance in the eyes of youth coaches. I don't say these skills are not important for them, but at youth categories relying on physical dominance is easier way to reach success. Teams are formed around bigs and the rest is expected to feed the big men. Most of the youth coaches especially under-12 categories don't have any aim to raise a player. Winning the games is the only thing that matters for them. They think W/L ratio specifies how good coaches are they, mostly because of job loss fear (maybe). People are way too result-oriented in youth setup, both players, coaches and families. The ones who see the things from wider angle is close to come out better off in the long term. Basketball education at the ages between 8-12 is quite important because basketball fundamental forms between those ages and after that it is harder to change the main fundamental that already been learned. Thanks, we still have good number of coaches in big clubs who are knowledgeable, observant, enthusiastic and aware of the changes in basketball concepts and try to change end product players into completely different players. If coaches could have the same approach towards players at their first basketball education, things would be easier for us. Teaching basketball fundamental at the age of 13-14 is terrible. Waste of time. I see that even in the big basketball youth setups like Tofaş or Yeşilyurt.



    Even if Hazer could shoot a little bit more consistent, he wouldn't be a elite player for sure. He doesn't have ball control, barely beat his opponent in 1v1 or his court vision is below-average. Beside all his liabilities, his energy, defense and explosiveness are pros that make him useful player. He has defects in his basketball fundamental except shooting part aswell.
    Ok, I see we agree about main problem , working with youngsters in early ages.

    As many times we don't agree about players but never mind. Sanli is the best shooter among centers but made very stupid move going to Barca under Saras. Spot up or no, you can't expect from center to shoot from dribble But ok, it's not point, but in general problem with lack of shooters

    With shooting like Bogdan(and ball handling), Hazer would be top5, I repeat that. There is talent and character, I recognize that. That's why I mentioned him as example how good prospects were ruined with bad basic education in early ages.
    Last edited by janketa; 06-21-2022 at 09:07 AM.

  16. #36
    Senior Member slice me nice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    With shooting like Bogdan(and ball handling), Hazer would be top5, I repeat that. There is talent and character, I recognize that. That's why I mentioned him as example how good prospects were ruined with bad basic education in early ages.
    Bogdanovic is already the perfect example of how a true SG should be. If he would shoot, if he would handle the ball like him...

    Leave alone being Top-5 in Europe, then he would be one of the best obviously, no need to repeat it. But, there is one Bogdan. That guy has natural talent, fundamental and high work ethic. He is a gym-rat. His pre and post-training routines were admirable in Fener. Great character.
    Sports is not only considered as a superiority of physical capability. Perception, intelligence and morality assist it as well. The strong with less intelligence and comprehension can not cope with the less strong but with sufficient intelligence and comprehension. I like the sportsman who is intelligent, agile as well as morally upright.

    Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK

  17. #37
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    Hazer has the potential to be a top defender and should play primarily as a finisher. He can create for others when the defense is unbalanced but the only things he should add to his arsenal is shooting generally (shot very well this season) and a mid range jumper after using screens, thats all. In unbalanced situations his decisions can be very wild. Dont run him as a PG it will be a mess for sure. If hes through the lines to the rim its over. He will dunk over you.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by slice me nice View Post
    Bogdanovic is already the perfect example of how a true SG should be. If he would shoot, if he would handle the ball like him...

    Leave alone being Top-5 in Europe, then he would be one of the best obviously, no need to repeat it. But, there is one Bogdan. That guy has natural talent, fundamental and high work ethic. He is a gym-rat. His pre and post-training routines were admirable in Fener. Great character.
    Hazer is the most irrelevant point in my post and regarding feelings and insticts about players we'll never agree, it's obvious

    Who cares about one player mentioned as example of bad working, I want to see the system where every year we will have bunch of well educated prospects, with good base skillset, and after that from 10 prepared kids if we get one or two EL level players in age around 20y that's quite ok and that's point of my post.

    I am finished with this topic Fuck examples
    Last edited by janketa; 06-21-2022 at 03:11 PM.

  19. #39
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    Hard route to World Cup for Turkey. We got already two defeats against Greece and it makes Augusts game more important. Potential opponents are Serbia, Latvia and Belgium. İn the scenario, we play Serbia with Jokic and Latvia with Porzingis in August and Belgium games in the normal season, it will be really hard to qualify. Belgium has a good team for normal season games without NBA and EL players and we have always problems in those games.

  20. #40
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    Itoudis commented issue of poor basketball base in country with 80 milions population

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEDXytFjzig&t=2379s
    38:50

    He must be reading my posts here

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