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Thread: EuroLeague 2022/23

  1. #41
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemanja95 View Post
    Cska 2019 is most dominant champion of EL last 10 years. In history, is hard to estimate, I think this team of Cska is not best. Since 1990s there is Virtus with amazing team twice won EL, Panathinaikos 2007 and 2009,

    Cska with Messina 2006 and 2008, Maccabi with Gershon has been extraordinary dominant. I think in last 10 years, only Cska from 2019 should consider one of the best team in history. That is not Fenerbahce neither Real.

    But I dont have doubt, their supporters would have arguments who refute our estimate. Because in big measure, a lot depends of personal preferences. Barcelona from 2010 is probably most dominant champion of EL if we look difficulties of way, practically they won without any kind of drama. But thew won 1 EL, they had good circumstances, Pao finished competition in top 16, Cska made team rebuilding, and there are no decent opponent who has been enough good to won Barcelona who this year had excellent team.

    So, estimation between champions who is better than another has multiple layers, who played best, who won in most easy way, who won more titles, who had it what circumstances... In that extent, supporters of any club can find reasons to support their wishes.
    That CSKA team beated Efes(almost easy), team that will probably be the best team in history with three-peat..

    They just missed the moment and let the best players to leave

    Virtus was dominant, Barca 2010 too, Pao from 2009, but never four of top10 players of the competition in the same team.

    This season Efes will have 3 top10 players, Barca two, Fener one, Virtus one, Real one, Monaco (probably)one and Armani one
    Last edited by janketa; 06-25-2022 at 01:47 PM.

  2. #42
    Moderator Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uskoton View Post
    That was interesting to read.

    So it seems EL is worried about clubs relying on owners and governments funding the teams (as they are allowed to fund up to 50% of costs) sounds like what is happening in the KHL hockey where the league wants teams to rely less on Oil/Gas and government money and actually form marketing and sponsorships to cover costs.

    Would a salary cap work in the EL or some kind of salary tax like what exists in baseball? If teams spend over X amount, they pay a tax which is shared between the others?

    Also 2 questions, I've been away from basketball for a while now

    1. How is the qualification to EL these days?

    2. Is there some website similar to Elite Prospects that covers basketball transfers and rosters? I don't use twitter or social media so would like somewhere I can follow the rosters.
    A salary cap in Euroleague may be difficult to implement because there's teams from so many different countries. In the EU there is an issue with salary caps and the free movement of workers. There were questions of whether Financial Fair Play rules in football were compatible with EU laws.
    With MLB it's mostly American teams with a few Canadian ones, so much more straightforward. And as you know, EL teams also compete in domestic competitions as well, which adds another layer of complication which doesn't exist for MLB teams.
    That said, EL does actually have a players' association now ( https://elpa.basketball/ ) although even forming such a union to represent players took many years.

    I could be wrong on this, but iirc France has quite strict rules in football about their clubs proving their solvency before a season starts. I got the impression that it was the same for their basketball teams too. Likely why you rarely hear stories about French teams being late with payments to players or of teams folding during a season. Germany is similar.

    About qualification for Euroleague, here's the situation for the 2022-23 season:
    12 teams with a "long term license."
    Two places for the EuroCup finalists.
    1 two year wild card spot.
    3 one year wild card spot. (One of these is usually reserved for the ABA champion.)

    So the only legitimate way for non licensed teams to qualify is via the ABA or EuroCup. If Venezia won Lega Basket or Murcia won the ACB there would be no places in Euroleague for them.


    This site should be of some help in terms of tracking the changes to Euroleague rosters:
    https://www.eurohoops.net/en/tradema...nsfers-2022/2/

  3. #43
    Moderator Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    That CSKA team beated Efes(almost easy), team that will probably be the best team in history with three-peat..

    They just missed the moment and let the best players to leave

    Virtus was dominant, Barca 2010 too, Pao from 2009, but never four of top10 players of the competition in the same team.

    This season Efes will have 3 top10 players, Barca two, Fener one, Virtus one, Real one, Monaco (probably)one and Armani one
    I recognise the quality of the 2019 CSKA team but their 2016 team was also amazing and I think were probably even better to watch. IIRC the only serious flaw in their 2016 team was the lack of depth at center because of Joel Freeland's injuries.
    Teodosic and De Colo combination in the backcourt, it really doesn't get better than that.

  4. #44
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    I recognise the quality of the 2019 CSKA team but their 2016 team was also amazing and I think were probably even better to watch. IIRC the only serious flaw in their 2016 team was the lack of depth at center because of Joel Freeland's injuries.
    Teodosic and De Colo combination in the backcourt, it really doesn't get better than that.
    They replaced Teo with Chacho and added Clyburn, So I would say 2019 roster was better then 2016

    2nd argument could be that they beated rather easily Efes, who dominated 3 years in a row after that.

  5. #45
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Maybe for the first time in last couple seasons EL will be stronger, not just overflow from one team to another and leaking to NBA.

    This time two top level guards are coming from NBA to Milan and Barca. Maybe more players will be back, campazzo in Real for instance

    In counter direction could go only Micic from top players. We'll see

  6. #46
    Junior Member Uskoton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    A salary cap in Euroleague may be difficult to implement because there's teams from so many different countries. In the EU there is an issue with salary caps and the free movement of workers. There were questions of whether Financial Fair Play rules in football were compatible with EU laws.
    With MLB it's mostly American teams with a few Canadian ones, so much more straightforward. And as you know, EL teams also compete in domestic competitions as well, which adds another layer of complication which doesn't exist for MLB teams.
    That said, EL does actually have a players' association now ( https://elpa.basketball/ ) although even forming such a union to represent players took many years.

    I could be wrong on this, but iirc France has quite strict rules in football about their clubs proving their solvency before a season starts. I got the impression that it was the same for their basketball teams too. Likely why you rarely hear stories about French teams being late with payments to players or of teams folding during a season. Germany is similar.

    About qualification for Euroleague, here's the situation for the 2022-23 season:
    12 teams with a "long term license."
    Two places for the EuroCup finalists.
    1 two year wild card spot.
    3 one year wild card spot. (One of these is usually reserved for the ABA champion.)

    So the only legitimate way for non licensed teams to qualify is via the ABA or EuroCup. If Venezia won Lega Basket or Murcia won the ACB there would be no places in Euroleague for them.


    This site should be of some help in terms of tracking the changes to Euroleague rosters:
    https://www.eurohoops.net/en/tradema...nsfers-2022/2/
    Thank you for taking the time to reply and explain! It's a very good point about teams also playing in their domestic leagues regarding a salary cap. I can only imagine how awkward that would be to try and arrange.

    Like the report said, owners are happy with the setup, and it's been going on for a while now, so I don't think there is a cause to worry but obviously, self sustainability should also be the goal in sports. Imagine if next season a team like Milan or Efes lost their sponsor and can no longer compete

  7. #47
    Moderator Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    They replaced Teo with Chacho and added Clyburn, So I would say 2019 roster was better then 2016

    2nd argument could be that they beated rather easily Efes, who dominated 3 years in a row after that.
    I agree the overall roster was stronger but there was just something more stylish about their basketball in 2016. Plus, the 2016 team was the one to finally banish the ghosts of Istanbul 2012. Their 2019 team didn't have that burden.

    You said about watching the finals from the past 20 years or so and I have a question about that- do you agree that the 2012 Olympiacos team was ridiculously underrated? In retrospect, it feels strange that they were considered such underdogs.

  8. #48
    Moderator Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uskoton View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to reply and explain! It's a very good point about teams also playing in their domestic leagues regarding a salary cap. I can only imagine how awkward that would be to try and arrange.

    Like the report said, owners are happy with the setup, and it's been going on for a while now, so I don't think there is a cause to worry but obviously, self sustainability should also be the goal in sports. Imagine if next season a team like Milan or Efes lost their sponsor and can no longer compete
    No problem.

    Ideally every club would be self sustainable and like you say it is concerning what would happen to some of them if they lost their benefactor. But then again look at all the money there is in elite football and yet still many of those teams have serious debts.

  9. #49
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    I agree the overall roster was stronger but there was just something more stylish about their basketball in 2016. Plus, the 2016 team was the one to finally banish the ghosts of Istanbul 2012. Their 2019 team didn't have that burden.

    You said about watching the finals from the past 20 years or so and I have a question about that- do you agree that the 2012 Olympiacos team was ridiculously underrated? In retrospect, it feels strange that they were considered such underdogs.
    Their roster from 2010 and 2011 was packed with stars and much more expensive. I suppose that hype rooted from changing their policy and relying much more on domestic players what was winner strategy in that moment. But that won't gona happen ever again. One moment in history where you have 3 top level domestic players in the roster.

    Same case was Partizan 1992 and Jugoplastika(Pop84). In current situation it's almost impossible, budget rules

  10. #50
    Moderator Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    Their roster from 2010 and 2011 was packed with stars and much more expensive. I suppose that hype rooted from changing their policy and relying much more on domestic players what was winner strategy in that moment. But that won't gona happen ever again. One moment in history where you have 3 top level domestic players in the roster.

    Same case was Partizan 1992 and Jugoplastika(Pop84). In current situation it's almost impossible, budget rules
    I think there was also the fact that CSKA beat them by solid margins when they played in the second group stage too. But Olympiakos had improved a lot from that point, once they got Law and Dorsey more settled into the team.
    And yes a good point that it's unlikely to happen again.

  11. #51
    Efes fan Levenspiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    I recognise the quality of the 2019 CSKA team but their 2016 team was also amazing and I think were probably even better to watch. IIRC the only serious flaw in their 2016 team was the lack of depth at center because of Joel Freeland's injuries.
    Teodosic and De Colo combination in the backcourt, it really doesn't get better than that.
    2019 team only won because they did not meet Olympiakos at the F4.

    5 out 6 scientists say Russian roulette is safe.

  12. #52
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levenspiel View Post
    2019 team only won because they did not meet Olympiakos at the F4.

    I understand joke, but even the best Oly from 2013-2014 couldn't beat them.

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