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Thread: Eurobasket 2022 Overview

  1. #101
    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furkan Korkmaz View Post
    Imagine having an NT player for whom you have to send an entire lobby delegation to convince his participation before every single tournamen
    The Greek basketball federation needs to coordinate his participation with the Bucks first and foremost. Giannis is the best player on the planet and has a huge contract being the franchise player of one of the best NBA clubs at the moment. Part of the Bucks coaching staff joins the Greek national team as well. They help him prepare for the national team and know all ins and outs. Lastly, in China Giannis received an enormous amount of attention by the Chinese media. He is the face of Greece, the Bucks and one of the faces of the NBA.
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  2. #102
    Senior Member Furkan Korkmaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    The Greek basketball federation needs to coordinate his participation with the Bucks first and foremost. Giannis is the best player on the planet and has a huge contract being the franchise player of one of the best NBA clubs at the moment. Part of the Bucks coaching staff joins the Greek national team as well. They help him prepare for the national team and know all ins and outs. Lastly, in China Giannis received an enormous amount of attention by the Chinese media. He is the face of Greece, the Bucks and one of the faces of the NBA.
    From what I read in the linked article, Zisis, in his own words is going to Milwaukee again. “We are waiting for him to rest up and afterward arrange another meeting to confirm him being available”, many months ago they already went, and clearly couldnt get a simple yes from him. This only means he’s playing hard to get, by what logic though?? The sooner Itoudis has clarity the better he can plan everything! He is only sabotaging efficiency for Itoudis with this nonsense.

    Giannis isnt the first euro Nba star nor will be the last. Doncic, Bogdanovic, Porzingis, Sabonis, or our guys, none of them need “coordinations”... what is there to coordinate regarding a simple availability? Eurobasket isnt like the FIBA windows where the schedules clash, players are free, hence they all show up for their teams without question. Only those who put personal interests before their country’s success start doing calculations or hypotheticals and do not show up.

    Of course I can see where you are coming from, and hope for you it’ll go as you desire, but my personal opinion is that your approach is a bit naive. You actually reveal another big scheme as to why Giannis did show up for the world cup, in contrast to the other tournaments. It was of extreme commercial interest, for Giannis himself, for the Bucks and for Fiba. Have you noticed how they spammed him in the media as the posterboy of the tournament? Because the bulk of the American basketball world actually couldnt care less about FIBA tournaments, through the “nba mvp is here” narrative they tried to advertise their competition.

    Giannis also has some commercial interests in Greece, like when he did those ads for Milko and what not. People of extreme poor background generally have a financial trauma and because of it they become extremely focused on generating money. He even had his talentless brother signed into an NBA franchise for a multi million dollar contract.... just to cheerlead him on. This same guy who was being played 40+ minutes a match by the Bucks without rest, also suddenly was too injured to play 5 more in the previous Eurobasket. It’s all so obvious to me... nothing you said above actually explains anything other than proving Giannis doesnt care enough. He’s settled fully in America, and he has no reason to look back towards the country other than exploiting commercial interests.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    Random "naturalization" of random Americans just destroys competition. It's as straight and simple. Why would Lorenzo Brown play for Spain? Why Tobey for Slovenia? It's absolutely random. It kills the idea of national team competition and I hate that even Spain goes for it. To me all countries who uses random Americans (that's not naturalization) are frauds. The only good thing from this shot it that when you beat the fraud team with all your own guys you feel even bigger satisfaction, that's all. All other things are negative. If FIBA wanted to expand basketball, they had to allow naturalization only for the teams which are below top 30 in fiba rankings. Maybe only that would make sense. How Spain, Slovenia need naturalized players as they stand top 6 in the rankings? Specially Spain...

    This is ridiculous...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
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  4. #104
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    Giannis will be available for Greece

    Danilo Gallinari will be available for Italy but I dont know if this is a good idea

  5. #105
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    Giannis will be very interesting to watch if comes. But I remain sceptical just as before 2019 WC. Did his FG % improve? No. Did his three point shooting improve? No. Did his passing touch and sharpness improved. To certain extent, yes. But I doubt he can dominate FIBA offensively. I really doubt. In some games, maybe. But overall he can't give you +20. I can hardly see that. It will be the same, more or less. Defensively his impact can be massive however. So it depends. Maybe he will rebound and will go for transition points more, but he will struggle again in half court FIBA basketball. The cage is still there Giannis, rephrasing his own self

    That's why D. Sabonis can't dominate FIBA too. He, differently than Pau who had terrific jimmy, can't really shoot in FIBA. If you can't hit your three and mid range jimmy, forget +20 pts in FIBA.

    Even Jokic in FIBA is questionable. Jokic is solid shooter for FIBA, but if you play the 5 in FIBA you are going through hell physically. That's nearly a rugby in FIBA tournaments and that takes your jump shot away to certain extent. Besides, last time Jokic was so irritated with FIBA rigid game that he barely could stay in the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfZ7...l=AGHighlights That was a foul, but FIBA rigid intensity, double teaming can be hell for NBA stars.

    Jokic wasn't shooting much threes in 2019 WC. Only 10 shots, 4 made. Maybe now he would shoot more, but I still doubt Jokic would completely dominate in terms of scoring, even though he's more capable to do that than Giannis, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  6. #106
    Senior Member Furkan Korkmaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    This is ridiculous...
    As much as I can agree the randomness of it is a bit strange (Tobey said he didn’t even know anything about Slovenia prior to his naturalization), the fact is that Slovenia is only making use of a rule that is available for everyone, and it allowed players like Tobey to have valuable experiences in his career like the Olympics, which he would have never been able to participate in otherwise, simply because he is from a giant basketball country. Who is some random federation in the baltics to take that away from him for example?

    But are we really going to see a handful of zero naturalization federations (a minority) complain about this over and over again every single time a new country announces a new naturalized player? Going around in circles with the same objection. The rule stands, if you decide not to use it by choice, it’s your own.

    On a personal note, I’m obviously a massive fan of our naturalized player, and although he’s not random, I also do not care what other federations does for themselves, especially when there is a strict limit and rules to naturalizations, keeping the potential impact of it limited, contrary to sports like football.

  7. #107
    Senior Member BiHBasket's Avatar
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    Croatia:

    PG Lovro Gnjidic(Cibona), Roko Rogic(Toruń), Goran Filipovic(Cedevita Junior)

    SG Bojan Bogdanovic(Jazz), Krunoslav Simon(Efes), Filip Kruslin(Sassari), Mateo Dreznjak(Cibona)

    SF Mario Hezonja(UNICS), Ivan Ramljak(Slask), Pavle Marcinkovic(Zadar)

    PF Dario Saric(Phoenix), Roko Prkacin(Cibona), Dragan Bender(Maccabi), Tomislav Zubcic(Tofas)

    C Ivica Zubac(Clippers), Ante Toni Zizic(Maccabi), Danko Brankovic(Cibona), Karlo Matkovic(Mega)


    Saric is injured since July 2021, Simon and Bender are also injured, so they are very doubtful.

    Gnjidic and Prkacin had disappointing season in Cibona, it was stagnation, not a step forward.

    Expectations are high especially for Gnjidic because he is PG, they see and treat him as the best PG prospect in the last 10 years. He is around two metres tall, good athlete, skilled ball handler with good court vision, and while he isn't great shoter he isn't terrible either.

    But an idea of him as a player is much better then how he actually performs. He isn't aggressive as scorer and loses too many balls. He played in 26 Adriatic league games in this season and in 17 of them he scored 6 or less points. And had 3.32 turnovers per game, only two players in the league had more.

    But his menager Misko Raznatovic says that Gnjidic is the last player he is worried about, he compares him to Micic in a way that he is confident that Gnjidic will struggle a bit in his career, but once he "get his s*** together" he will be unstoppable.
    Last edited by BiHBasket; 05-25-2022 at 06:00 PM.
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  8. #108
    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furkan Korkmaz View Post
    From what I read in the linked article, Zisis, in his own words is going to Milwaukee again. “We are waiting for him to rest up and afterward arrange another meeting to confirm him being available”, many months ago they already went, and clearly couldnt get a simple yes from him. This only means he’s playing hard to get, by what logic though?? The sooner Itoudis has clarity the better he can plan everything! He is only sabotaging efficiency for Itoudis with this nonsense.

    Giannis isnt the first euro Nba star nor will be the last. Doncic, Bogdanovic, Porzingis, Sabonis, or our guys, none of them need “coordinations”... what is there to coordinate regarding a simple availability? Eurobasket isnt like the FIBA windows where the schedules clash, players are free, hence they all show up for their teams without question. Only those who put personal interests before their country’s success start doing calculations or hypotheticals and do not show up.

    Of course I can see where you are coming from, and hope for you it’ll go as you desire, but my personal opinion is that your approach is a bit naive. You actually reveal another big scheme as to why Giannis did show up for the world cup, in contrast to the other tournaments. It was of extreme commercial interest, for Giannis himself, for the Bucks and for Fiba. Have you noticed how they spammed him in the media as the posterboy of the tournament? Because the bulk of the American basketball world actually couldnt care less about FIBA tournaments, through the “nba mvp is here” narrative they tried to advertise their competition.

    Giannis also has some commercial interests in Greece, like when he did those ads for Milko and what not. People of extreme poor background generally have a financial trauma and because of it they become extremely focused on generating money. He even had his talentless brother signed into an NBA franchise for a multi million dollar contract.... just to cheerlead him on. This same guy who was being played 40+ minutes a match by the Bucks without rest, also suddenly was too injured to play 5 more in the previous Eurobasket. It’s all so obvious to me... nothing you said above actually explains anything other than proving Giannis doesnt care enough. He’s settled fully in America, and he has no reason to look back towards the country other than exploiting commercial interests.
    We have had this discussion before at another point. He participated in every tournament Greece played in absent one in which he was injured. And now he will probably participate again. All the rest is your respectable subjective opionion.

    And as for his brothers. They should profit from the fact that they are born and raised in a basketball country. Kostas should play for a Greek team like Thanassis did.

    Giannis will be very interesting to watch if comes. But I remain sceptical just as before 2019 WC. Did his FG % improve? No. Did his three point shooting improve? No. Did his passing touch and sharpness improved. To certain extent, yes. But I doubt he can dominate FIBA offensively. I really doubt. In some games, maybe. But overall he can't give you +20. I can hardly see that. It will be the same, more or less. Defensively his impact can be massive however. So it depends. Maybe he will rebound and will go for transition points more, but he will struggle again in half court FIBA basketball. The cage is still there Giannis, rephrasing his own self
    If he comes, it's nice for the organisation as a whole. It's great to see players like Doncic, Giannis and Jokic in the tournament. More than anything, it will be interesting to see how Itoudis will use him.
    Last edited by Victorious; 05-25-2022 at 08:57 PM.
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  9. #109
    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiHBasket View Post
    Croatia:

    PG Lovro Gnjidic(Cibona), Roko Rogic(Toruń), Goran Filipovic(Cedevita Junior)

    SG Bojan Bogdanovic(Jazz), Krunoslav Simon(Efes), Filip Kruslin(Sassari), Mateo Dreznjak(Cibona)

    SF Mario Hezonja(UNICS), Ivan Ramljak(Slask), Pavle Marcinkovic(Zadar)

    PF Dario Saric(Phoenix), Roko Prkacin(Cibona), Dragan Bender(Maccabi), Tomislav Zubcic(Tofas)

    C Ivica Zubac(Clippers), Ante Toni Zizic(Maccabi), Danko Brankovic(Cibona), Karlo Matkovic(Mega)


    Saric is injured since July 2021, Simon and Bender are also injured, so they are very doubtful.

    Gnjidic and Prkacin had disappointing season in Cibona, it was stagnation, not a step forward.

    Expectations are high especially for Gnjidic because he is PG, they see and treat him as the best PG prospect in the last 10 years. He is around two metres tall, good athlete, skilled ball handler with good court vision, and while he isn't great shoter he isn't terrible either.

    But an idea of him as a player is much better then how he actually performs. He isn't aggressive as scorer and loses too many balls. He played in 26 Adriatic league games in this season and in 17 of them he scored 6 or less points. And had 3.32 turnovers per game, only two players in the league had more.

    But his menager Misko Raznatovic says that Gnjidic is the last player he is worried about, he compares him to Micic in a way that he is confident that Gnjidic will struggle a bit in his career, but once he "get his s*** together" he will be unstoppable.
    In full strength they are a very decent team.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    In full strength they are a very decent team.
    I dont agree here.

  11. #111
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    In full strength they are a very decent team.
    Distracted, decentred, disturbed and so on...Croatia's greatness ended with 90's. After than it's just "Hey, Croatia can be pretty good, right?" and it continues for two decades now...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  12. #112
    Senior Member R1ou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furkan Korkmaz View Post
    Imagine trying to clap back regarding a subjective topic without substance or arguments but triggered, ungrounded and false rumors. On 2 occasions I have seen Shane himself answer back at twitter trolls attacking him for being paid (both were Greek, maybe it was R1ou LOL), by saying he’s not getting paid. I was able to dig this one up, the other one he seemed more annoyed, but it seems gone.

    You still have to prove none of the other naturalized Americans got zero dollars for their service, but I guess this is not the case.
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  13. #113
    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Distracted, decentred, disturbed and so on...Croatia's greatness ended with 90's. After than it's just "Hey, Croatia can be pretty good, right?" and it continues for two decades now...
    Pretty much true, but I would add that they have had some good seasons. They were quite a good team in 2007 and 2013 among others. Sometimes they can get rolling.
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  14. #114
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    Marco Guduric looks really horrible.

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    Schröder, Kleber, Theis and M.Wagner are going to participate this summer. Franz Wagner seems undecided. Hartenstein will skip this years tournament, not a big surprise to me.

  16. #116
    Senior Member Furkan Korkmaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1ou View Post
    You still have to prove none of the other naturalized Americans got zero dollars for their service, but I guess this is not the case.
    Lol I have to prove nothing, the tweet speaks for itself, and their careers in Turkey too (Dixon FB legend, Wilbekin Dacka legend and Shane Efes legend). Ironically Wilbekin and Calathes were even raised from the same basketball college. I guess we paid Wilbekin as much as you paid Calathes, or maybe that Dorsey.

  17. #117
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thiago94 View Post
    Schröder, Kleber, Theis and M.Wagner are going to participate this summer. Franz Wagner seems undecided. Hartenstein will skip this years tournament, not a big surprise to me.
    Franz is one of the keys if not the most important player these days.
    Last edited by Straight forward; 05-29-2022 at 08:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  18. #118
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    Doncic confirms he's IN, as expected. He even participate in FIBA windows as Slovenian NT gathers in 15 days. Doncic will be a beast again and, well, they may even be group B favorites now knowing France's losses.

    This made me think why Lithuanians JV and Sabonis skipping FIBA windows. Our coach argued that it's because NBA limitations, but obviously not. Nevertheless we will be OK even without them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Doncic confirms he's IN, as expected. He even participate in FIBA windows as Slovenian NT gathers in 15 days. Doncic will be a beast again and, well, they may even be group B favorites now knowing France's losses.

    This made me think why Lithuanians JV and Sabonis skipping FIBA windows. Our coach argued that it's because NBA limitations, but obviously not. Nevertheless we will be OK even without them.
    Its written in his NBA contract. Dallas cant prevent him playing for the NT and he said many times that hes available if hes not injured. He has a great impact but I still wouldnt overestimate them so much. The qualification and even the Olympic tournament was not really high quality.

  20. #120
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Its written in his NBA contract. Dallas cant prevent him playing for the NT and he said many times that hes available if hes not injured. He has a great impact but I still wouldnt overestimate them so much. The qualification and even the Olympic tournament was not really high quality.
    OK. That's pretty huge. Respect for him.

    Well, Slovenia convincingly beat Lithuania, swept Argentina (Campazzo, Scola, Deck, Vildoza, Lapro - solid team), swept Germany, and lost to totally elite France by 1 point. That's pretty high quality to me
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

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