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Thread: EuroBasket 2022

  1. #21
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    If Jokic as good as in NBA, he should be dropping 27/14/8. Numbers from some fantasy world, but that's Jokic's NBA numbers Now, I don't think it's impossible, if Serbia would push him to score and they will more or less, it's possible cause he's that good. He's at Dirk's level now basically, and he was dropping 28,7ppg in 2001EB.

    But! While I do think that playing 33min is possible, I would see him playing more like 28-30mpg. I do think there's a reason why Giannis was playing only 25mpg in 2019 WC. Cause everybody was beating him literally. The physicality these days is insane, players are better athletes (more PRO athletes) and the defences are more prepared. So it will be interesting to see how much Giannis (who is even tougher now and better) and Jokic will dominate. However, Serbia's group is trash generally speaking. Not even Czecks will have Vesely right? So, god knows, maybe Jokic will be dropping 30 in the group stage if needed. This EB is a bit an equal. I mean Netherlands and Finland, and Poland...That's a walk in the park, and your best opponent Czecks and Israel...

    However, I would see something like 28mpg, 20/9/5 kinda numbers in the PO stage. It will be dominant performance, but not totally dominant as Doncic had in Olympics with 24/10/10. I will think that if teams will go hard on Jokic, even for him it will be hard to totally dominate the game. I'm the proponent of the idea that only guards or guard like forwards (Durant, Lebron) can truly dominate FIBA. Doncic managed 33mpg by the way. If Jokic will manage that much being big heavy dude, he's in great shape.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  2. #22
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    One good individual tournament and medal doesnt bring to same level as all time fiba legends ale Bodiroga with multiple medals.

    Its takes 4-5 dominant tournaments like that

    Doncic is on good track to be all time fiba legend like Pau,Dirk,Parker,Manu

    Jokic and Giannis not even close atleast yet. So far their fiba performances was not on level of all time 10 best fiba players
    Let me remind you that Jokić has an Olympic silver. It's not like he hasn't done anything with NT, even though he was a rookie at the time and didn't have the leading role like he has now, but still was incredibly important for us in that tournament.

    It's a long shot, but if Jokić brings this team all the way, he will be put right there with all those legends. Why? Because the gap between him and everybody else in this team is pretty big (all of them are great players, but Jokić is one of a kind), while Đorđević, Danilović, Bodiroga, Divac, Stojaković...more or less won together most of those gold medals, and all of them could score a lot. This is the first time in like forever that one player in our NT has to carry a really big burden on his back in their quest to win it all. Combine that with his status as the biggest talent to ever play basketball in Serbia, and there you have his name right there at the top of Serbian basketball Pantheon.

    I wasn't comparing Jokić to Pau, Nowitzki...in terms of their achievments in Fiba ball, just what would it mean for Jokić's legacy in Serbian basketball history to win something big with NT. There will be time to discuss all time Fiba legends, they all played in different circumstances, some were surrounded with big players (like Pau), some with less talent (like Dirk). As for Jokić, Dončić and Giannis, we will see, it's still too early to call any of them legend.
    Last edited by Serbian_Layup; 08-23-2022 at 06:08 PM.

  3. #23
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    You seem to be a die hard Jokic fan. I hope he wont disappoint you...

  4. #24
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    You seem to be a die hard Jokic fan. I hope he wont disappoint you...
    I'm a fan of Jokić, but primarily a fan of good basketball. The thing about Jokić is that there have been some absurd takes that such player can't be himself in Fiba ball. I take that as a nonsense, and I'm just glad he came motivated and in a really good shape to prove doubters wrong and play some great basketball. I think it's heading that way.

    I think it takes more than basketball to leave me dissapointed.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serbian_Layup View Post
    I'm a fan of Jokić, but primarily a fan of good basketball. The thing about Jokić is that there have been some absurd takes that such player can't be himself in Fiba ball. I take that as a nonsense, and I'm just glad he came motivated and in a really good shape to prove doubters wrong and play some great basketball. I think it's heading that way.

    I think it takes more than basketball to leave me dissapointed.
    I don't think this is an absurd. It's a recent common trend. Maybe Jokic and now prime Giannis will prove it wrong, but their 2019WC underperformances stand. As well as Vucevic's, Sabonis' and so on. Everything is very logical - much less space, no 3sec rule, more rigid BB, more contact, shorter game, but more intense. Giannis will definitely have problems against well organized defence which will lock the paint cause he shot 29% threes last season. Jokic a bit better shooter, but also might struggle. That fact is no center have been putting 25+ points in FIBA for many years now and only 2022 came to prove this rule as an exception. We're up for something special.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  6. #26
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    If Jokic as good as in NBA, he should be dropping 27/14/8. Numbers from some fantasy world, but that's Jokic's NBA numbers Now, I don't think it's impossible, if Serbia would push him to score and they will more or less, it's possible cause he's that good. He's at Dirk's level now basically, and he was dropping 28,7ppg in 2001EB.

    But! While I do think that playing 33min is possible, I would see him playing more like 28-30mpg. I do think there's a reason why Giannis was playing only 25mpg in 2019 WC. Cause everybody was beating him literally. The physicality these days is insane, players are better athletes (more PRO athletes) and the defences are more prepared. So it will be interesting to see how much Giannis (who is even tougher now and better) and Jokic will dominate. However, Serbia's group is trash generally speaking. Not even Czecks will have Vesely right? So, god knows, maybe Jokic will be dropping 30 in the group stage if needed. This EB is a bit an equal. I mean Netherlands and Finland, and Poland...That's a walk in the park, and your best opponent Czecks and Israel...

    However, I would see something like 28mpg, 20/9/5 kinda numbers in the PO stage. It will be dominant performance, but not totally dominant as Doncic had in Olympics with 24/10/10. I will think that if teams will go hard on Jokic, even for him it will be hard to totally dominate the game. I'm the proponent of the idea that only guards or guard like forwards (Durant, Lebron) can truly dominate FIBA. Doncic managed 33mpg by the way. If Jokic will manage that much being big heavy dude, he's in great shape.
    When I say Jokić will be every bit as good in Fiba ball as he is in the NBA, I'm not talking about numbers. I'm talking about Jokić's comfort to just be himself. I don't think a lot of people understand what is Jokić's biggest trait as a player. It's not scoring 27 ppg, it's his ability to make the best possible decision in a given moment. He had games in NBA when he scored less than 10 points and still was the best player on the court. Now, for sure, we will need him to score a lot (especially in do or die games), just as it has been the case with the Nuggets in the past two seasons, but he is the kind of player who can score 10 points and be the best player on the court. His ability to score is incredibly important and that's what the Nuggets were emphasizing in the past two years when Jokić was
    forced to do the heavy lifting without Murray, Porter...And that was the silver lining for the Nuggets and Jokić himself, he got to know how good of a scorer he can be, which added to his game and made him what he is today. However, the very core of his game is not his scoring ability, it's his decision making and understanding of the game. That's ultimate Jokić. I don't care if he will average 28 or 20 points as long as he is doing that by being himself, impacting the game and making his teammates better by just playing the right way. As far as I can see, this is very likely to happen.

    Jokić will have to score a lot in the knockout stage, and that is the situation he is very familiar with because he has been doing that for the Nuggets the past two years. He will take the group stage lightly, getting everybody in groove, while I expect him to score a lot in the knockout stage simply because that is the right way for us without Bogdan. That is Jokić, score when it's necessary, pass and make plays when it's possible. Jokić is the best in the world at recognizing these two situations.

    As for physical shape, I bet he is top 3 most ready players at this Eurobasket. Pešić will manage his minutes, something like 20-22 in the group stage probably, and 30 plus in the knockout phase almost certainly. That's nothing compared to minutes he is getting in the NBA playoffs and the lifting he is doing for the Nuggets. If he can manage to overcome NBA beating in the playoffs, I think he will be OK with the competition at Eurobasket.

    People are very inclined to compare Jokić, Dončić and Giannis through the numbers only without realizing that they are essentially three different basketball minds with different mentality. They are impacting the game in different ways, some will score more or less, but the impact they make on their teams is invaluable.
    Last edited by Serbian_Layup; 08-23-2022 at 07:29 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    I don't think this is an absurd. It's a recent common trend. Maybe Jokic and now prime Giannis will prove it wrong, but their 2019WC underperformances stand. As well as Vucevic's, Sabonis' and so on. Everything is very logical - much less space, no 3sec rule, more rigid BB, more contact, shorter game, but more intense. Giannis will definitely have problems against well organized defence which will lock the paint cause he shot 29% threes last season. Jokic a bit better shooter, but also might struggle. That fact is no center have been putting 25+ points in FIBA for many years now and only 2022 came to prove this rule as an exception. We're up for something special.
    The question about Jokić's ability to be great in Fiba ball was never about his skill set, but his motivation, readiness to take the leading role, and primarilly, to be put in the right position to succeed, which he wasn't in 2019. That has been well documented.

    When a player is basically elite at every offensive skill, whteher it's posting up, passing, shooting, and above all decision making, how exactly do you think that a smaller court or three seconds rule are going to take all of his skills? It's impossible, because that kind of player will find the way to counter every move you drop on him.

    I understand doubts in Giannis' case because of his shooting (before, now seems like he is getting better) but that simply can not be implied to Jokić.

    With all due respect to Vučević and Sabonis, but they are not at this level. And it's also obvious in Vučević's case that the man doesn't have anyone to even play a simple p&r set in that team. As far as I can see from prep games, Sabonis getting better and more comfortable with Fiba ball.
    Last edited by Serbian_Layup; 08-23-2022 at 07:28 PM.

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