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21/22 season - Serbian players around the globe

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  • #31
    let's not underestimate the influence Jokic would have on this team if he decides to play and if he will be used properly.
    He is a top five player in the world right now. How could I underestimate his influence if he decides to play? I mean look at the game against Spain. He lacked concentration, made many stupid TO, didnt play with his last effort, walked back as if he was on a walk. Lets be honest, he hurt the team more than he helped. Just remembering back his TO against Fernandez and unsportsmanlike foul after that then his outburst against the ref when Marc Gasol grabbed his hand. At least for now it doesnt seem that he is very eager to play. When I remember Serbian teams just like 2009 2010. They were full focused and worked like a well oiled machine. My normally beloved PF Marko Kejselj made all shots in the semi finals. God, how I hated him.

    That's just different dimension that he brings, he unlocks the potential of this team and makes it basically unstoppable.
    Well without a proper effort, this will be very questionable.

    Center rotation, as I would like to be, is Jokic-Milutinov-Petrusev. Jokic and Milutinov are obvious choices, while Petrusev has much more upside than Marjanovic and we are not in position to throw away young players with more than enough time to correct some weaknesses.
    Raduljca did a 10 times better job 2015 than all 3 together 2019. Of course, Jokic Milu doesnt sound half bad but both of them lacked effort. Milu had after his peak with Oly like 100k injuries and he lacked effort as well. Its like Schröder playing for Germany, he lacks discipline and is a ball hog with being the worst decision maker in Europe. The name sounds good but he never showed anything with the NT. Germany even entered the Olympics without him. I dont believe in any prognosis before I see some effort.

    Players like Lucic, Kalinic and Jaramaz, along with Milutinov, are kind of players who can do all the dirty work that is so important in winning important games.
    No bad words against Lucic and Kalinic. Great guys and always ready to give their max for the NT. Jaramaz also looks like a duracell bunny but I dont really understand the hype on Milutinov. He is not a bad player nobody is in the Serbian NT (except Bircevic ) but he is surely not the lockdown defender who could protect the rim or clean the paint. I would even rather say a fairly bad defender in the paint.

    Idk Serbia wasnt that I was expecting the last two showdowns. I want to see fighting for every ball again. The last time I saw it, it was 2017 in Turkey.

    Comment


    • #32
      Jokic showed in 2016 Olympics as a barely 21 year old that he is the by far most talented player not just in our team but a Top3 player in the whole competition. In 2019 he didn't play his position and was in bad physical shape. What people tend to forget and I pointed this out also in the forum as critical when we bumped Italy with 25 difference is that he has to hunt Gallinari around blocks and forced in constant movement against mobile 4s.

      For the Spain game where everything broke apart - Serbia dominated beginning, went up 10 and it looked like another blowout when we came into situation that Scariolo's put up as Raptors assistant his Anti-Curry 1-4 zone that put heavy pressure on Bogdanovic and brought constant problems in creation. We missed Teo a lot in 2019. It was a problem that mentally totally destroyed a team that wasn't capable of being down. Spain did nothing spectacular in this game but in my opinion crucial problem was that Djordjevic used Bogdanovic as playmaker who was neutralized. When we began to unlock the zone it was too late. Total tactical victory of Scariolo. We didn't even attack the zone - why? Because Jokic had to stand behind the three point line - madness that also Malone pointed out after the tournament by analyzing Serbia's tournament.

      Another few side-notes on your conclusions here.

      a) Raduljica was not good but horrible in 2015 - he had two good tournaments, 2014 and 2016 but 2015 he was desastrous and JV looked like old Sabonis against him in the semis. A thing that pretty much determined the outcome of the game.
      b) Last summer cannot be any kind of benchmark for anything as just 3 players from last summer's team will be in conversation for playing next tournaments - Micic (injured in semis and played 15min with muscle rupture - looked like 70 year old and could barely move), Jovic (was injured in semifinals and didn't play finals so we played most of the game without a point guard) - Petrusev (was best player in this game, scored 23 and played tremendous in both directions but if called up will have a minor role in this team).
      c) Milutinov is a tremendous defender in the paint but vulnerable if you space him where he relies like most centers on help but that's where players like Kalinic, Lucic and in my opinion also very good Smailagic can bring themselves up for the team. Milutinov is the best rebounder in EL and that is his true strenght. Neither offense, nor defense but simply old school rebounding. He takes 4 offensive boards per 32mins. In such tournaments this means a lot and puts a lot of work on opponent on every shot in both directions. Whoever played one time against a dominant rebounder knows what I'm talking about.
      d) People tend to forget that this Serbian team 2019 was far from complete. We went without Nedovic, Kalinic (only Sale knows why they were left behind) and as Milosavljevic injured himself chronically Bogdanovic was only (!) shooting guard we had in China 2019 because Teo was projecte to play 2 from Djordjevic but injured himself and Guduric had to play 3 because Lucic was only available SF in the tournament. Many things can be seen as bad luck - but in my opinion it's more bad selection and not proper reaction to things that happened during preparation period where we really looked good like we did until 2nd quarter with Spain all tournament.

      I agree with Straight Forward that Jokic cannot put up triple-doubles or similar irrelevant stat-marks but I am quite sure that he can put defenses in heavy problems because defenses gravitate towards him all the time. I've watched yesterday night Denver - Utah. Utah plays organized ball, for NBA standards incredibly organized. Jokic was put on double-teams all the time. Not one possesion without it -there were also triple-teams. He solved it incredibly good with finding teammates but most of the time they weren't capable of hitting the open shot. Besides all he had 11 assists and 26 points which is really impressive under such circumstances.

      For me is most important that we receive a balance between lines and if anyone's healthy it should be guaranteed - additional depth lacked deeply in 2019 and that's the crucial point. Keeping rhythm and intensity high during all 40 minutes. I don't want to see dependance on Bogdanovic like 2017 or like Efes has on Micic. This is no basketball that can lead in such a tournament to substantial results. Looking at potential brackets in first round except Czech Republic we have teams that are with all due respect total outsiders against us and first potential mine is quarterfinal. As good as this can be, the bad it can be.

      Only time will tell but as far as I can see all players (except Jokic) commited 8 months before the tournament and we have two windows in June and August to further develop some kind of mentality. This players know each other and haven't forget to play basketball. I will be totally open to you as I am never overconfident and try to be objective and respectful all the time - but I wouldn't change our roster for any in the tournament. So it's up to us to make the best out of it.

      Comment


      • #33
        a) I wasnt evaluating Raduljcas performance. I was just pointing out that he did everything that he could do. In this Semi Final game almost everything went wrong on Serbian side. JV dominated Radu just because he is the much better player, despite the fact he was still much better than Milutinov or Jokic 2019. The Serbian team had no real competition till the Spain game and a bunch of chicken were more organized than the Serbian team. You can be disorganized but you cant lack effort.

        b) Serbia has the biggest number of available players. Injuries cant be the answer for this failure. This was again lack of preparation and the Serbian press destroyed Koko deservedly.

        c) Milutinov is just a good rebounder. There is nothing tremendous about him especially not his defense.

        d) Too many excuses for my taste.

        Comment


        • #34
          In my opinion Raduljica hasn't played better than Jokic in 2019. Not by any means. Why? Even in games against Spain and Germany that we've won until then against only really good teams Kuzmic played way better than Raduljica. Raduljica was injured and played horrible all tournament and was direct problem in pick against Lithuania. Essentially two things went wrong - Lithuania went into a rugby in the paint where Raduljica was destroyed.

          For available players in 2021 - yes, that is true to some point but when you miss 10 of your best players it's really hard for any team and when additionally two of three top level players that are available are injured you become an average team. That's a realistic outcome. Serbian press didn't "destroy" anyone - I told you this one time before. Realistically no other team in the world could have made something better with this average team. And even if so - the Olympics would have become a desaster. Except USA not one team in the world can compensate such an absence. Imagine Turkey with such a situation - just try it - do you really thing that effort could compensate this gigantic loss of quality?

          For Milutinov we don't agree obviously by any means and that's okay. If you say that he is just a good rebounder and nothing else than let it be like this.

          For 2019: Too many excuses sounds legit. It's not an excuse (I didn't play) but my observation of the situation. We haven't had substitutes, we haven't had depth and we lacked improvisation for calling up reserves into the player's pool after two big injuries and two absences from preliminary roster that were cut.

          Comment


          • #35
            I just wanted to point out one thing. I am not saying that Milutinov is a bad player. He is a solid Euroleague big but those three mentioned bigs are not the non plus ulra on the defensive end and I really dont think that Petrusev can be a factor in the near future but as a third big he is ok i guess.

            Comment


            • #36
              For 2019: Too many excuses sounds legit. It's not an excuse (I didn't play) but my observation of the situation. We haven't had substitutes, we haven't had depth and we lacked improvisation for calling up reserves into the player's pool after two big injuries and two absences from preliminary roster that were cut.
              I really dont have a problem with being out of shape, out of rhythm etc. This team on the court was a very solid team. This excuse of being short handed I accept for Eurobasket 17 when like 12 guys failed to come over but this team despite being limited had a charakter and will to fight. 2019 I couldnt see any effort and this is not acceptable.

              2021 was acceptable because there was a fight, the Serbian team was unorganized but they fought well.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Toruko View Post
                I really dont have a problem with being out of shape, out of rhythm etc. This team on the court was a very solid team. This excuse of being short handed I accept for Eurobasket 17 when like 12 guys failed to come over but this team despite being limited had a charakter and will to fight. 2019 I couldnt see any effort and this is not acceptable.

                2021 was acceptable because there was a fight, the Serbian team was unorganized but they fought well.
                Personally I don't understand why you can have a problem with both situations if we speak about Serbia but maybe we are differently built which is also absoultely normal. And as I said I don't agree that effort was lacking. We fought hard all game but they won tactically better prepared and more focused - they won deserved and showed that they were the better team. Effort was the last thing that can be challenged here. "Headless chickens" and similar punchlines are funny to read but believe me in this situation inacurate. The boys simply were outplayed.

                At the other hand we disagree very much about everything - or let's say we analyse from different perspectives and I have the feeling that you are tending to interprete extremes way too much in your observations. Not just in those cases btw.

                Anyways, thanks for exchanging thoughts and looking forward to our games in August which will show as last games before Euro interesting focus spots of Serbia and your team Turkey.
                Cheers.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Well I admit my expectations might be a bit high and I tend to see things in a more pessimistic way but its ok to have a discussion here and there.

                  See you guys right before Eurobasket 2022.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I absolutely love what Raduljica brought to NT 2014-2016 period. I emphasized that couple of times. However, what does that have to do with current depth of our big men rotation? Comparing 2015 with 2019, I don't see any relation there. The depth we have right now at C is by far the best we've had in years. One unsuccessful campaign in 2019 is not going to change the potential of that big men rotation if executed properly. When I'm writing about Jokic's influence, I'm definitely making assumption that Jokic will come motivated and ready to contribute. His mindset was bad in 2019 but it doesn't mean that won't change (truth be told he was also badly used, like putting him at PF) I remember after that campaign he had major troubles to get back into shape during NBA season with the Nuggets. I doubt something like that can happen again. There was a setback in 2019 and quite unfortunate circumstances at Qualifiers in Belgrade. Motivation and focus could be better, but there is also a fact that we had ridiculous amount of absent players and basically very few injury free players at the tournament alone. That doesn't justify Kokoskov entirely though, should have done a better job there.

                    As for Milutinov, it's a luxury to have him as a back up center. Elite rebounder, terrific lob threat, great size and ability to keep up with guards in shorter spaces. He can't cover a lot of ground in isolation but he is excellent at altering shots at the rim and picking good angles. Not worried about our defense at C too much. Jokic has grown to be a positive defender, slow footed but great instincts, positioning, anticipation. FIBA court will actually work in his advantage defensively, because he will cover less ground than in NBA. Milutinov will do his job, it's already enough if he locks the paint and secure defensive glass. Playing effective p&r against the size that Micic, Bogdan, Lucic and Kalinic will bring when it comes to rotating and fighting through screens won't be easy at all. That will make Jokic's and Milutinov's life much easier. But this is just hypothetical talk, who knows who will play in the end.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Jokic was heavily overweight after the WC and needed approximately 3 month to be in shape again. The following year he came with 50 pounds less. Weird guy.

                      Absolutely agree with everything what you wrote btw. The question will just be if Jokic can bring up the mindset after a exhausting season and if Milutinov can stay healthy. I would be more optimistic if there were a big with a defensive mindset, thats all.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I think the crazy thing is that fully packed Serbia can be so much better in 2022 than fully packed Serbia 2019. And compared to 2019 roster, I think Serbia barely has any worth mentioning decline. Like maybe Bjelica will be a bit worse and that's pretty much it. Jokic is way better, like his improvement last few years was insane. Bogdanovic is 29, so that's the prime exactly. Micic is much better (EL MVP). Both Kalinic and Lucic better than in 2019. And Serbia might bring back Teo who is still a pain in the ass offensively. That's pretty insane. Again, even a great teams fail and specially Serbia (), but seriously...
                        LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

                        Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
                        Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
                        Buzelis, Lelevicius
                        Murauskas, Sirvydis
                        Tubelis, Krivas

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          https://twitter.com/caine_purnell/st...53900687360000

                          Such a great understanding of the game at just 17 y.o. Advanced passing ability. Bogdan, for example, was until his early 20's an ultra ISO scorer, it's only then when he added passing to his game as well as better understanding, he became a complete player. Djurisic already has that natural feel for team basketball while being very talented scorer off the dribble. Really high upside.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            It's getting more and more obvious that he has higher upside than Jovic. To me Milijasevic and Djurisic are players that I enjoy watching a lot, creative and with energy but team players still. That's why I never was and never will be fan of Micic. He is complete opposite. I have feeling he would rather die than not have 15 points in average in season.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Extremely polished and very physically gifted for 17yo. Hard to judge the level of the game, but he looks like a guy who could step on EL court already a little bit. He is already 6'8. Obviously best next Serbia's guard if he won't grow into 6'11 or something.
                              LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

                              Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
                              Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
                              Buzelis, Lelevicius
                              Murauskas, Sirvydis
                              Tubelis, Krivas

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Katastroika View Post
                                It's getting more and more obvious that he has higher upside than Jovic. To me Milijasevic and Djurisic are players that I enjoy watching a lot, creative and with energy but team players still. That's why I never was and never will be fan of Micic. He is complete opposite. I have feeling he would rather die than not have 15 points in average in season.
                                I agree about Micic to certain degree. I liked him better last season simply due to fact that he was facilitating more frequently than this season. This season he is averaging 3.5 assists, while last season he had 5 assists per game. That's noticeable dip from last season. It's not because he got worse, it's just that he is looking to slash and drive much more for himself than for others. Nevertheless, he is a really great slasher at this level, combination of size, strength, change of direction and creative finishing around basket make him really tough to defend. But yes, I would like him to find better balance between facilitating and looking for his own shot.

                                I'm very high on Jovic, I think his ability to pull the trigger from anywhere on the court is a great skill that will be appreciated when discussing his upside, and of course overall feel for the game, passing, scoring instincts. With that being said, I also think Djurisic from physical standpoint and overall skill level has even higher upside than Jovic. Those two might be future of NT, right now I think Jovic has a bit more weaknesses than Djurisic, but both of them are definitely the best prospects we have right now. Milijasevic has crazy shot creating ability, but I'm not sure if his size will enable him to create or finish through contact consistently well at senior level. If that translates to senior level, then we found a superb shot creator for future.

                                Originally posted by Straight forward View Post
                                Extremely polished and very physically gifted for 17yo. Hard to judge the level of the game, but he looks like a guy who could step on EL court already a little bit. He is already 6'8. Obviously best next Serbia's guard if he won't grow into 6'11 or something.
                                Level of the game is not superb, but more than OK for any young player starting to play at senior level. Right now figures as the best prospect we have at guard position, with exception that he will be able to play at SF and probably defend forwards considering his physicality.

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