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Thread: Basketball at the Olympics should be U23. The WC should be the prime competition.

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    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Default Basketball at the Olympics should be U23. The WC should be the prime competition.

    The reason why basketball at the Olympics is considered the prime competition is probably due to the old rivalry between the USA and the Sovjet Union. The Olympics were used by the US and Sovjet governments as a tool too showcase their power. And when the US non-professional basketball teams started loosing gold medals during the Olympics, the Americans were out to prove something. So in 1992 they assembled arguably the best team ever in any sport. The USA Dream Team. This team became an example of excellence in any sport. That's because they were so much better than any other team. Due to this, many NBA players want to be part of the same team Jordan, Magic, Bird made world famous. So the best NBA players are usually keen in participating during the Olympics.
    In a way though, this underrates the sport. A gold medal at the Olympics is worth as much as a gold for 3X3 basketball, water polo, or whatever sport. Prestige wise however, it is a great achievement to be the number one team in a team sport played by so many people all around the world. As such, basketball should have its own unique prime competition every four years. The World Cup basketball.

    What are your thoughts on this?
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    Senior Member Dtown's Avatar
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    I imagine this is FIBA's end goal and what they would love to have happen, it's convincing everyone else of it though, primarily the United States, that's the problem. Because if you don't have an invested US you basically have Eurobasket + Argentina and Australia.

    You mentioned the history of Olympic basketball, but it's the Olympics in general that are valued in the US, While an Olympic Gold in Basketball is worth as much as one in Water Polo, a gold medal, regardless of sport, is genuinely considered one of the highest sporting accomplishments you can have here. The World Cup on the other hand is mostly an unknown, it's definitely growing, but the attitude is just slightly better than the empty gyms that we saw in 2002.

    Now is it possible to change it? Yes, but it's going to take time. The process is already starting, superstar MVP level players in the NBA from outside the US is becoming normal, and with that comes more desire to see national teams play each other. The Olympics have taken deserved hits for being a corrupt soulless organization, and this years Olympics are only making it worse. That said big stars need to commit to their teams for a World Cup, and FIBA needs to fix their god awful qualification methods to ensure those big stars have a chance to play.

    If you can't do those last two things it will never pass the Olympics.
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    Senior Member Victorious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtown View Post
    I imagine this is FIBA's end goal and what they would love to have happen, it's convincing everyone else of it though, primarily the United States, that's the problem. Because if you don't have an invested US you basically have Eurobasket + Argentina and Australia.

    You mentioned the history of Olympic basketball, but it's the Olympics in general that are valued in the US, While an Olympic Gold in Basketball is worth as much as one in Water Polo, a gold medal, regardless of sport, is genuinely considered one of the highest sporting accomplishments you can have here. The World Cup on the other hand is mostly an unknown, it's definitely growing, but the attitude is just slightly better than the empty gyms that we saw in 2002.

    Now is it possible to change it? Yes, but it's going to take time. The process is already starting, superstar MVP level players in the NBA from outside the US is becoming normal, and with that comes more desire to see national teams play each other. The Olympics have taken deserved hits for being a corrupt soulless organization, and this years Olympics are only making it worse. That said big stars need to commit to their teams for a World Cup, and FIBA needs to fix their god awful qualification methods to ensure those big stars have a chance to play.

    If you can't do those last two things it will never pass the Olympics.
    I understand the American attitude about the value of a wold cup title in basketball. But we shouldn't forget that the US is just one country. The popularity of the game in the US will not suffer because of it either way, since they have the NBA. So we need to put the US on the side and prioritize the rest of the world here. For the rest of the world, winning the WC does matter a great deal.

    If the US team is not invested, it means that other countries will have more chances in beating them. Think of the 3d tier USA team which they sent two years ago. It will not hurt the sport at all. It will essentially make it more interesting, since the world title will be up for grabs. And also, the world cup will be held once every four years, potentially in different countries. So there will be a lot of interest. If the US will loose one tournament, it will be a long time that they are not World Champions. The interest level will rise, even in the US.

    On a global scale, just by eliminating basketball at the Olympics, the WC will surpass the value of the gold Olympic basketball medal overnight.

    Now, we won't discard history altogether. Watching the U23 squads can be quite interesting and spectacular.
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    I don't think FIBA is interested. After London some NBA people were calling for the Olympics to be reduced to a U23 competition and one of the main reasons FIBA went to their new competition system was to reduce the workload on top players in order to ensure that the NBA would continue to allow them to play in the Olympics.

    Not sure the IOC would go for it either. Soccer gets away with it because it still fills big stadiums and even then they had to allow some overage players.

    It would be nice if FIBA had their own marquee competition with Olympic-level interest but I don't think the worldwide audience is there without the Olympic brand. You'd probably have to cut the WC down to a smaller tournament of elite teams with star players that people want to see.

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    Just to clear up a popular but false narrative that I hear all the time, the 1988 US collegiate loss to Soviets didnít change the US mentality. They wanted to continue sending amateurs and voted against NBA players being allowed to participate. It was FIBA President Boris Stankovic that pushed for NBA players to be allowed.He did this for two main reasons. Firstly he realized that it would benefit the world if they competed against the best even if it meant severe beatings early on. Secondly he also realized that European players were improving and would be handicapped if they had to choose between playing in the best league in the world or representing their national teams. Oscar Schmidt is a good example of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dtown View Post
    I imagine this is FIBA's end goal and what they would love to have happen, it's convincing everyone else of it though, primarily the United States, that's the problem. Because if you don't have an invested US you basically have Eurobasket + Argentina and Australia.

    You mentioned the history of Olympic basketball, but it's the Olympics in general that are valued in the US, While an Olympic Gold in Basketball is worth as much as one in Water Polo, a gold medal, regardless of sport, is genuinely considered one of the highest sporting accomplishments you can have here. The World Cup on the other hand is mostly an unknown, it's definitely growing, but the attitude is just slightly better than the empty gyms that we saw in 2002.

    Now is it possible to change it? Yes, but it's going to take time. The process is already starting, superstar MVP level players in the NBA from outside the US is becoming normal, and with that comes more desire to see national teams play each other. The Olympics have taken deserved hits for being a corrupt soulless organization, and this years Olympics are only making it worse. That said big stars need to commit to their teams for a World Cup, and FIBA needs to fix their god awful qualification methods to ensure those big stars have a chance to play.

    If you can't do those last two things it will never pass the Olympics.
    The biggest mistake FIBA made with changing the new WC qualification is the devaluing of the continental championships. Slovenia not making the WC but being the Euro champs made zero sense. Winners of the 4 four continental champs should automatically qualify for the WC.
    Iím all for the Olympics changing to an u23 format. I think with the new WC timeline it takes a lot to ask the senior team players to commit to back to back summer tournaments. Especially with the pressure from the nba and Euroleague on the players to skip these tournaments.

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    My opinion will not be Olympics basketball u23.

    Best Olympic basketball tournament what I watched, it was 2012. Next tournament 2016 was much weaker than last in order to this tournament playing in last week of July and first week August, on half of period between two seasons.

    Result of that is basketball without strategy, tactic, with extremely individual play, with week defense due physical unpreparedness of players and lack of time. Almost, without surprise and without creation and with very predictable play. Actually, extensive version of Nba . I don`t like this and appreciate little .

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamalJokic View Post
    The biggest mistake FIBA made with changing the new WC qualification is the devaluing of the continental championships. Slovenia not making the WC but being the Euro champs made zero sense. Winners of the 4 four continental champs should automatically qualify for the WC.
    I’m all for the Olympics changing to an u23 format. I think with the new WC timeline it takes a lot to ask the senior team players to commit to back to back summer tournaments. Especially with the pressure from the nba and Euroleague on the players to skip these tournaments.
    Why not do some changes, Winners of 4 continental cup champions will directly qualify to the WC.. 2nd, reduce teams who qualified thru qualifiers.. example, In Asia/Pacific there have 7 teams qualify for WC.. I think that's too much for a continent that has low level of competition (I'm Filipino based on Middle East but 7 teams is too much).. It should be like this: 4 teams for Continental cup champs, 8 teams from Europe, 5 teams from Americas, 5 from Asia/Pacific and 4 from Africa (all thru qualifiers), 1 host (if more than 1 host, the qualifiers from one continent who will set to be Host will be reduced spot who will qualified) and FIBA should set up ala FIFA's intercontinental qualifiers (Or let's say OQT version for WC).. The final window of qualifiers is February 2023, most of the teams can't send their best line up because of professional commitments, But they can send their best line up in June 2023 (Most of PRO leagues are already off season), the final 5 teams to complete the 32 teams should be take in this intercontinental qualifiers.. Let's say 3rd and 4th ranked teams in each group in Europe (total of 8), 4 teams in Americas, 4 in Asia and 4 in Africa.. A total of 20 teams will fight for last 5 spots... They will split it to 5 groups, And the winner in each 5 groups will take the spot at WC..

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    Senior Member Steadysoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGX View Post
    I don't think FIBA is interested. After London some NBA people were calling for the Olympics to be reduced to a U23 competition and one of the main reasons FIBA went to their new competition system was to reduce the workload on top players in order to ensure that the NBA would continue to allow them to play in the Olympics.

    Not sure the IOC would go for it either. Soccer gets away with it because it still fills big stadiums and even then they had to allow some overage players.

    It would be nice if FIBA had their own marquee competition with Olympic-level interest but I don't think the worldwide audience is there without the Olympic brand. You'd probably have to cut the WC down to a smaller tournament of elite teams with star players that people want to see.
    FIFA also had a way more complicated set up before switching to u23.

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    Senior Member Steadysoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamalJokic View Post
    The biggest mistake FIBA made with changing the new WC qualification is the devaluing of the continental championships. Slovenia not making the WC but being the Euro champs made zero sense. Winners of the 4 four continental champs should automatically qualify for the WC.
    I’m all for the Olympics changing to an u23 format. I think with the new WC timeline it takes a lot to ask the senior team players to commit to back to back summer tournaments. Especially with the pressure from the nba and Euroleague on the players to skip these tournaments.
    They could have simply made the schedule

    break
    zone
    wc
    olympics
    rinse and repeat.

    That would have had the same effect.

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