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Thread: 2020 Men's Olympic Tournament

  1. #161
    Senior Member reamily's Avatar
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    theres a reason why Lowry is the target fa of dallas this season, they need someone who can shout at luka and involve others on the scheme..they known better if they somehow involved porzingis even if he suck on it at least they gave him the chance, it wasnt the case
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    Quote Originally Posted by reamily View Post
    theres a reason why Lowry is the target fa of dallas this season, they need someone who can shout at luka and involve others on the scheme..they known better if they somehow involved porzingis even if he suck on it at least they gave him the chance, it wasnt the case
    KP was averaging 20 points with the best efficiency of his career in regular season, so Luka was obviously not the problem. The problem in this series was KP's total liability in D, which made RC to play Boban alongside him. That has obviously caused differences in offensive scheme too, where KP became Pf and paint was suddenly closed, because Boban was there. KP's inability to create anything for himself didn't help either.

    They need to bring another guard because Richardson sucked and has already been traded. Kp is non factor in this trade and might be traded too, if Mavs find someone to take him and get something back.

    All this speculations how Mavs are not happy with Luka are a joke, they will do anything to please him. Kidd, KP, whoever will be a history, if Luka wants it.

    Mavs getting Lowry is a long shot anyway, much more likely scenario is Lowry coming in Miami. In this case Miami will renounce Dragic, who might sign with Mavs.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 07-31-2021 at 11:56 PM.
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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    I don't believe you're Mavs fan because you're talking total bullshit. Richardson was not even starter in that series, total non factor, averaging 13 minutes. KP was that bad in D, that Mavs had to start Boban to not being totally destroyed in the paint, while Clippers were playing small ball. It was suicidal move of corse, Boban cannot defend picks, but KP was that bad that RC basically didn't have any other option. In offense KP was standing in the corner as decoy. Total non factor too. Porzingis is 2.21 and he couldn't do anything against 20+ cm shorter SFs? Give me a break. I have never seen something that pathetic in my life.

    Clippers tried to do everything to stop Luka with no luck, but finally they have won because Luka couldn't play 48 minutes. In game 3, after winning first 2, they were up by 17 in first Q, RC has taken Luka out and Mavs fell apart.

    Mavericks offensive rating with Luka was 118, without Luka 83. This are insane numbers. But we have seen very similar numbers in game against Argentina. Slovenia with Luka + 34, without him -16 in just 9 minutes.

    Here you can see great analysis, how to stop Luka. In short, you won't stop him, you have to take ball out of his hands.

    https://youtu.be/h-Ax4Fs6gf8
    im a mavs fan since d days of nash and dirk so you are d one talking BS to even question me on that.

    i do not need to watch a youtube video for any luka analysis as i watch 90% of mavs games in regular season, part of two social media forums on d mavs, and regularly listens and reads mavs stuff on three mavs sites.

    taking d ball out of luka's hands was not for d clippers to do for an entire series because mavs were ready for that. go get some statistics and see the % of possessions that they double-teamed luka in d entire 7 games.

    check also that leonard was not d main defender on luka even if they could do so. they focused on leonard defending KP and later on hardaway.

  4. #164
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neo View Post
    im a mavs fan since d days of nash and dirk so you are d one talking BS to even question me on that.

    i do not need to watch a youtube video for any luka analysis as i watch 90% of mavs games in regular season and part of two social media forums on d mavs.

    taking d ball out of luka's hands was not for d clippers to do for an entire series because mavs were ready for that. go get some statistics and see the % of possessions that they double-teamed luka in d entire 7 games.

    check also that leonard was not d main defender on luka even if they could do so. they focused on leonard defending KP and later on hardaway.
    Suddenly you're not mentioning Richardson anymore?

    Kawhi was main defender on KP in first 2 games and we know how it ended for the Clippers. After that things change. It's obvious that Kawhi couldn't guard Luka the whole series, because he was too important for Clippers in offense. Lue was mixing D on Luka the whole time. After going down 0:2 it was Kawhi, who was prime defender on Luka. With all screms that teams play it's impossible for 1 player to guard anyone exclusively anymore. Teams are attacking weak spots in D. That's why Zubac didn't play much after he was destroyed by Luka in first games. Clippers didn't need to do much about KP later in the series anymore, because with addition of Boban, KP became 2.21 Sf hidden in the corner, waiting to get few shots per match. Mavs would have been ecstatic, if Kawhi was waiting with him. If KP had any kind of post moves, Clippers couldn't defend him the way they did with smaller players. Unfortunately KP after injury is not unicorn anymore, but just Sf, who cannot create anything, hidden in a big body.

    But again, the main problem with KP was not his offensive play, but total inability to be rim protector. Paint was totally open because of his lack of movement. RC tried to solve that with starting Boban alongside him, but doing that Mavs were totally open on perimeter, which was painfully obvious in game 7. Mavs didn't lose the series because of offense, but because of D.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 08-01-2021 at 04:57 AM.
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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Suddenly you're not mentioning Richardson anymore?

    Kawhi was main defender on KP in first 2 games and we know how it ended for the Clippers. After that things change. It's obvious that Kawhi couldn't guard Luka the whole series, because he was too important for Clippers in offense. Lue was mixing D on Luka the whole time. After going down 0:2 it was Kawhi, who was prime defender on Luka. With all screms that teams play it's impossible for 1 player to guard anyone exclusively anymore. Teams are attacking weak spots in D. That's why Zubac didn't play much after he was destroyed by Luka in first games. Clippers didn't need to do much about KP later in the series anymore, because with addition of Boban, KP became 2.21 Sf hidden in the corner, waiting to get few shots per match. Mavs would have been ecstatic, if Kawhi was waiting with him.

    But again, the main problem with KP was not his offensive play, but total inability to be rim protector. Paint was totally open because his lack of movement.
    richardson was not given minutes becos he could not space d floor and they need hardaway's shooting over his defense (which was actually negative as mavs' defense were better with him off d floor) and they cannot afford to play both tim and josh becos that would mean less minutes for DFS and even maxi.

    khawi was not d main defender on KP in d first 2 games but shifted to hardaway starting game 3.

    kp's offense was problematic, he was not able to take advantage of smaller defenders. but he also had less touches, especially d last 5 games because he was made a corner spot-up shooter becos analytics suggested he's most efficient in that role.

    indeed, KP's defense was also a problem but he did improve a bit in d last 2 or 3 games.

    but other than KP's regression, mavs lose series becos of (a) tactical errors from d head coach, especially in terms of managing luka's minutes, (b) lack of secondary creator, and (c) lack of elite wing defender. The last 2 were supposed to be something that richardson will address but it was a failure. hence, he was traded d moment he opted in his contract.

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    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neo View Post
    richardson was not given minutes becos he could not space d floor and they need hardaway's shooting over his defense (which was actually negative as mavs' defense were better with him off d floor) and they cannot afford to play both tim and josh becos that would mean less minutes for DFS and even maxi.

    khawi was not d main defender on KP in d first 2 games but shifted to hardaway starting game 3.

    kp's offense was problematic, he was not able to take advantage of smaller defenders. but he also had less touches, especially d last 5 games because he was made a corner spot-up shooter becos analytics suggested he's most efficient in that role.

    indeed, KP's defense was also a problem but he did improve a bit in d last 2 or 3 games.

    but other than KP's regression, mavs lose series becos of (a) tactical errors from d head coach, especially in terms of managing luka's minutes, (b) lack of secondary creator, and (c) lack of elite wing defender. The last 2 were supposed to be something that richardson will address but it was a failure. hence, he was traded d moment he opted in his contract.
    I can mostly agree with this. But didn't you start this conversation how Clippers' D destroyed Richardson and KP? Richardson, who didn't even start and was total non factor with 13 minutes per game and KP, who was standing in the corner half of the series?

    Mavs roster is disastrous, because management failed totally in last 2 years, they had numerous failures, cherry on the cake Seth/Josh trade.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    I can mostly agree with this. But didn't you start this conversation how Clippers' D destroyed Richardson and KP? Richardson, who didn't even start and was total non factor with 13 minutes per game and KP, who was standing in the corner half of the series?

    Mavs roster is disastrous, because management failed totally in last 2 years, they had numerous failures, cherry on the cake Seth/Josh trade.
    i did not say they were destroyed. what i was trying to say was that clippers' defense was designed to limit non-luka players. that is why luka had one or two 40-point games where they still lose. d very defense they played led to KP playing less minutes and getting less touches and limited plays designed for him (and generally ineffective) and JR getting less minutes relative to regular season minutes and decreasing as the series went on culminating to lowest minutes in game 7 (generally a non-factor except for some FTs). and the two are just examples. DFS, maxi, and jalen brunson were all less effective or efficient in offense in d series. clippers had too many long and athletic switchable defenders and their game plan to cover luka one-on-one most of d time means less opportunities for d role/support players to have easier path to getting points.

    mavs failed in general after 2011. and carlise stayed too long for comfort. d seth/josh trade was theoretically good so that's ok. at least they tried to do something different, they just need to move on from that failure (and they did).

  8. #168
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neo View Post
    i did not say they were destroyed. what i was trying to say was that clippers' defense was designed to limit non-luka players. that is why luka had one or two 40-point games where they still lose. d very defense they played led to KP playing less minutes and getting less touches and limited plays designed for him (and generally ineffective) and JR getting less minutes relative to regular season minutes and decreasing as the series went on culminating to lowest minutes in game 7 (generally a non-factor except for some FTs). and the two are just examples. DFS, maxi, and jalen brunson were all less effective or efficient in offense in d series. clippers had too many long and athletic switchable defenders and their game plan to cover luka one-on-one most of d time means less opportunities for d role/support players to have easier path to getting points.

    mavs failed in general after 2011. and carlise stayed too long for comfort. d seth/josh trade was theoretically good so that's ok. at least they tried to do something different, they just need to move on from that failure (and they did).
    Trade Seth/Richardson could have been good only, if they have gotten Miami's Josh, he was similarly bad in Philly. Giving away great shooter, when you have Luka, who basically has to be surrounded with shooters, is very dangerous. It's true that Mavs need D, but not with that prize.

    Mavs players weren't ineffective because Clippers D focused on them, but because they're simply not good enough against serious and good D in playoffs. Jalen is too small for Clippers defenders, DFS and Kleber are incredibly limited players, who couldn't never started in conteders. Then you have Boban, who normally can play just against special matchups, but he was suddenly starting and playing a lot of minutes. Powell, who has gotten incredibly generous contract for his role in the team, WCS...Luka on the other hand likes to play big matches and was more or less unstoppable, no matter what Clippers did. Something is averaging 35.7 points, but doing that efficiently and knowing that more than 90% of his points were unassisted is just incredible.

    About KP. He's 2.21. How 20 cm shorter players can make him ineffective? Because he's in reality very limited player too. No post move, cannot create for himself, no handle...His only weapon is shooting over defenders, but he's not Dirk, so his % is too low for that. His main appeal was being rim protector, who can stretch the floor. Losing his mobility to be rim protector makes him massively overpaid player.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 08-01-2021 at 06:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Trade Seth/Richardson could have been good only, if they have gotten Miami's Josh, he was similarly bad in Philly. Giving away great shooter, when you have Luka, who basically has to be surrounded with shooters, is very dangerous. It's true that Mavs need D, but not with that prize.

    Mavs players weren't ineffective because Clippers D focused on them, but because they're simply not good enough against serious and good D in playoffs. Jalen is too small for Clippers defenders, DFS and Kleber are incredibly limited players, who couldn't never started in conteders. Then you have Boban, who normally can play just against special matchups, but he was suddenly starting and playing a lot of minutes. Powell, who has gotten incredibly generous contract for his role in the team, WCS...Luka on the other hand likes to play big matches and was more or less unstoppable, no matter what Clippers did. Something is averaging 35.7 points, but doing that efficiently and knowing that more than 90% of his points were unassisted is just incredible.

    perhaps, on d likes of DFS, JB and maxi. but certainly not with THJ and KP.

    well, it is rumored that a namesake of yours was d real brain behind boban's starting.

    in d end, luka cannot do it alone, it was like lebron in his first stint with d cavs.

    but luka is so elite, he does not need a big 2 or big 3. he just need better support around him. and perhaps, a better system.

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    so its argentina vs australia or france.

    anyone here thinks that scola and company can recreate d magic of 2019 WC and upset a no.1 team in the QF?

  11. #171
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Argentina put to sleep delusions how Japan is better. Funny enough they might get worse opponent than one of Spain/Slovenia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Argentina put to sleep delusions how Japan is better. Funny enough, they might get worse opponent than one of Spain/Slovenia.
    it is certain that they will not meet spain or slovenia because groupmates in preliminary round will not play against each other in QF.

    so it's france or australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neo View Post
    perhaps, on d likes of DFS, JB and maxi. but certainly not with THJ and KP.

    well, it is rumored that a namesake of yours was d real brain behind boban's starting.

    in d end, luka cannot do it alone, it was like lebron in his first stint with d cavs.

    but luka is so elite, he does not need a big 2 or big 3. he just need better support around him. and perhaps, a better system.
    In this series he could. 2:0 and 17 points up RC did the biggest blunder in this series.

    If KP was playing like in last year's bubble, Mavs would have won 4:0.

    If KP was just able to provide decent rim protection, Mavs would have won also.

    If Bob the gambler didn't risk everything with Boban, they might have won also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neo View Post
    it is certain that they will not meet spain or slovenia because groupmates in preliminary round will not play against each other in QF.

    so it's france or australia.
    I know, but Spain/Slovenia have 50% to get USA, who are still far the worst opponent for anyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    I know, but Spain/Slovenia have 50% to get USA, who are still far the worst opponent for anyone.
    yes, so i am hoping that luka and slovenia beat spain later.

    if luka outplays rubio, they'll win as long as their frontcourt mixes it well vs spain's bigs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    In this series he could. 2:0 and 17 points up RC did the biggest blunder in this series.

    If KP was playing like in last year's bubble, Mavs would have won 4:0.

    If KP was just able to provide decent rim protection, Mavs would have won also.

    If Bob the gambler didn't risk everything with Boban, they might have won also.
    yeah, RC fucxxd up in that first quarter of game 3. clippers would still have won games, but no way they could rise from 0-3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neo View Post
    yes, so i am hoping that luka and slovenia beat spain later.

    if luka outplays rubio, they'll win as long as their frontcourt mixes it well vs spain's bigs.
    It's really simple in this game. Spain has to stop Luka no matter what and they know that. Spain bigs are not better than Lithuania bigs, they won't be a factor, if Luka has a good day. If not, it's more or less game over for Slovenia. It won't be the end of the world, but win in this match brings at least on paper much easier opponent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    It's really simple in this game. Spain has to stop Luka no matter what and they know that. Spain bigs are not better than Lithuania bigs, they won't be a factor, if Luka has a good day. If not, it's more or less game over for Slovenia. It won't be the end of the world, but win in this match brings at least on paper much easier opponent.
    it's not that spain's bigs are better (but more experienced though) it's that they have more depth in d frontcourt (although both gasols are way past their prime).

    if toby stays out of foul trouble, spain's depth at d 5 posiiton will not matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neo View Post
    it's not that spain's bigs are better. it's that they have more depth in d frontcourt (although both gasols are way past their prime).

    if toby stays out of foul trouble, spain's depth at d 5 posiiton will not matter.
    The only big I'm afraid of is Garuba, because he's the only one, who can defend Luka, when he will be switched to. Gasol brothers are perfect for Slovenia to attack them. I expect Garuba playing much more today than in previous games.

    It will be D against O.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 08-01-2021 at 07:15 AM.
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    That third foul for Luka was fishy.
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