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Thread: Greek National Team 2021

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    Default Greek National Team 2021

    Given the pre-olympic tournament is going to start soon, I think it is time to start discussing the Greek national team.

    First of all, at least for the pre-Olympic tournament, it looks like all Antetokoumpos will be heading well into the NBA play off phase and will not be able to participate during the Olympics. Papanikolaou also looks to be out because he is recovering from injury. On the other hand, Spanoulis, Koufos and Bourousis all showed interest in participating.

    So this is the team Coach Rick Pitino can assemble in a month or so.

    Papagiannis, Koufos, Bourousis
    Printezis, Mitoglou
    Papapetrou, ?
    Sloukas, Dorsey, Larentzakis
    Calathes, Spanoulis

    Likely not able to participate:
    Papanikolaou
    Thanassis A.
    Giannis A.
    Kostas A.

    Looks like this team definitely has some more firepower behind the arc. Would be a great team if the SF is covered and Giannis will be present. I don't know if they have any chances to make the Olympics though. I guess it will highly depend on what players Canada and Turkey can assemble as well.
    Last edited by Victorious; 05-13-2021 at 02:05 PM.
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    This roster looks very old. Especially the big rotation is really weak. The names Printezis, Bourousis sound good but mentioning them in the roster means just one thing. Greece neglected to raise some bigs. The back court looks still competitive though but also mostly far over the 30s.

    Bourousis can hardly move and Koufos looks like he is done with Basketball. We will see how the old guys perform when they need to play 3-4 games in one week. The big rotation without Giannis looks very vulnerable.

    BTW: as far as I know Dorsey and Koufos are considered to be naturalized which would mean that you have to skip one of them.
    Last edited by Toruko; 05-13-2021 at 10:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    This roster looks very old. Especially the big rotation is really weak. The names Printezis, Bourousis sound good but mentioning them in the roster means just one thing. Greece neglected to raise some bigs. The back court looks still competitive though but also mostly far over the 30s.

    Bourousis can hardly move and Koufos looks like he is done with Basketball. We will see how the old guys perform when they need to play 3-4 games in one week. The big rotation without Giannis looks very vulnerable.
    Yeah you are right about that. Some players are quite old. And I am not sure if Bourousis will be on the team. But I do prefer older players on the team than lesser talented players who are much younger. Greece has lost to such teams several times.

    That said, Giannis and Mitoglou could carry this team in the PF position for the next decade. It's only the center position where Papagiannis will be left all alone. Provided that Greece will not able to develop a good centers. The only one I can see right now with some potential is Kostas Antetokoumpo. I hope he decides to play in Europe in order to develop his game. But to be honest, the center position needs assistance.

    Anyways, that's the future. For this season however, I think this team with a full roster is better than the one two years ago. For starters, Greece actually has a good coach. Bourousis is older, but Papagiannis is better and Koufos is also on the team. Papanikolaou is older, but on the other hand Papapetrou is much better as well. While at the same time Greece has some additional shooters in Dorsey and Spanoulis. That said, I consider Canada to be the favorites to win the birth for the Olympics.


    BTW: as far as I know Dorsey and Koufos are considered to be naturalized which would mean that you have to skip one of them.
    I am quite sure Koufos is not considered naturalized. But I am not sure about Dorsey.
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    Yeah you are right about that. Some players are quite old. And I am not sure if Bourousis will be on the team. But I do prefer older players on the team than lesser talented players who are much younger. Greece has lost to such teams several times.
    There is a difference between old and too old. Bourousis is 38 and couldnt move last season. Spanoulis is even 39 and cant defend anyone and also not shoot. Do you really intend to use a guy who shot with 28% in Euroleague?. Printezis, the only old one I would expect a time limited performance is even 36.

    That said, Giannis and Mitoglou could carry this team in the PF position for the next decade.
    Thats correct. I like Mitoglou. He is a capable defender and a superb rebounder but not half as good as in offense compared to printezis. The main problem in your both forward positions they are good defender but they cant shoot and stretch the floor. Dont let deceive yourself by Papapetrous 36% from deep. It came mostly when the game was over this season.

    It's only the center position where Papagiannis will be left all alone.
    And even he is not the optimal solution. True, he made the next step from almost unusable with big focus and motor problems, overweight, couldnt stand in front of anyone to "usable" after he lost some weight. But the fact of the matter is, he is a bad defender. He gives up to easy against weaker center in the post. He is a bad pick and roll defender, gets sometimes shorties near the rim due to his insane wingspan but mostly not. Of course with passer like Calathes and Sloukas he will produce his 10 points but also very limited in the offense. He cant really shoot maybe he will be a reliable mid ranger in time but he has no post game. Has an unreliable hook shot without being able to push his opponent. I like him as a rolling big man though but produces mostly near the rim. And last but not least, he is a horrible rebounder. Absolute no instincts. IMO you cant rely on him like you did when you had Bourousis in that age.

    Anyways, that's the future. For this season however, I think this team with a full roster is better than the one two years ago.For starters, Greece actually has a good coach. Bourousis is older, but Papagiannis is better and Koufos is also on the team.
    Oh please. Do you really think Koufos could contribute anything for you in 2021? I mean he didnt play last season and Oly has signed him in emergency. He looked horrible. This guy is done. Its ridiculous to the same degree when I say we have Semih Erden and I think Koufos is worse shape. I would go with Zach Auguste tbh.

    Papanikolaou is older, but on the other hand Papapetrou is much better as well.
    Much better? He jumped from 9 points average to 12 points and this with much more usage and playing time. He had 60% from the field and dropped to 42% which is crappy.

    I think you really need a generational change. I would put Rokgavopoulos in this team and would take him to Canada. Yeah he is a bad defender and is by far not there that you could expect of him serious contribution but this guy is the only guy who can create his shot from anywhere. So if you dont want to lose your 2-3 potentials you should start to use them. For me they are Rogkavoulos, Mantzoukas and Kalaitzakis of PAO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post

    I think you really need a generational change. I would put Rokgavopoulos in this team and would take him to Canada. Yeah he is a bad defender and is by far not there that you could expect of him serious contribution but this guy is the only guy who can create his shot from anywhere. So if you dont want to lose your 2-3 potentials you should start to use them. For me they are Rogkavoulos, Mantzoukas and Kalaitzakis of PAO.
    No way. You made me laugh Toruko. These players are prospects. If they will become something, it will show after 5 years or so. For now, Greece would loose against teams like Sweden with these players.But thanks for reminding me there is light in the tunnel after both Calathes and Sloukas retire.

    I forgot about Zach Auguste. Who knows Pitino may prefer him. But I think Koufos is better. He was just trying to find his good shape last season, and may find it perhaps next season. As for Papagiannis, you have got to give him some slack, the man only turned 23 recently.

    You pointed out some weaknesses of the Greek team. Sure, but every teams has its weaknesses. The whole point is to hide them. I can elaborate on a whole list of weaknesses of Argentina 2019, but they won the silver medal in the World Championship.

    In that line of though, I would definitely take Spanoulis over any of the youngsters. I don't care about his age. He has the ability to kill the opponent at any time. Especially if he will find his good form in a short tournament. At the very least, the opponents know what he is capable of. That alone makes him a nuisance.

    BTW how about Turkey? It looks like Illyasova and Korkmaz are not going to make the team. Their NBA teams are very good.
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    No way. You made me laugh Toruko. These players are prospects. If they will become something, it will show after 5 years or so. For now, Greece would loose against teams like Sweden with these players.But thanks for reminding me there is light in the tunnel after both Calathes and Sloukas retire.
    Dont get this the wrong way but you dont have a real chance and its better to invest to the future and build a go to guy instead of using Papapetrou as one beside Sloiukas. The retirement of Calathes is near since he proclaimed it after the Olympic Qualifiers.

    I forgot about Zach Auguste. Who knows Pitino may prefer him. But I think Koufos is better. He was just trying to find his good shape last season, and may find it perhaps next season.
    There is no way Koufos is better than Auguste.

    As for Papagiannis, you have got to give him some slack, the man only turned 23 recently.
    He will turn in around one month 24. Of course he can improve more but he played A1 basketball with 16 or 17 so I expect him play decent Euroleague level with a non playoff team and thats it. I dont expect him to reach prime Bourousis level.

    You pointed out some weaknesses of the Greek team. Sure, but every teams has its weaknesses. The whole point is to hide them. I can elaborate on a whole list of weaknesses of Argentina 2019, but they won the silver medal in the World Championship.
    Its easy to predict an outcome in Greece case. You had in 2019 Giannis in your team with a younger core and couldnt score. Premised Giannis wont be there for the qualifiers what can you expect? I dont want to take the optimism out of you but I think the Greek team will struggle a lot. You dont have the depth and the quality to play 4 games in one week.

    BTW how about Turkey? It looks like Illyasova and Korkmaz are not going to make the team. Their NBA teams are very good.
    Who knows? The danger of losing Korkmaz is still bigger than Ilyasova. We will see... in case Ilyasovas he would just only play 15 minutes anyway. He is 84 born guy I think we shouldnt expect him to do more with 37. We dont need to use him excessively. There will be projected lottery pick Alperen Sengun and MVP of the Turkish super league, Shane Larkin, Sanli who had his break through season in the EL alongside with quite usable guys like Hazer and some guys who played solid seasons in FIBA CL and our new Miami guy Omer Yurtseven. It will be without a doubt the most talented team Turkey in 10 years even without Korkmaz.

    I dont expect a qualification either but I consider Czechs as bigger threat than Greece. It would be great if we could play final against Canada. Our main focus will be Eurobasket 22 with a splendid team.

    In that line of though, I would definitely take Spanoulis over any of the youngsters. I don't care about his age. He has the ability to kill the opponent at any time. Especially if he will find his good form in a short tournament. At the very least, the opponents know what he is capable of. That alone makes him a nuisance.
    You can trust him of course. I would let Sloukas take the decisive shots. Not that he is a born killer but he is the most capable guy and your only go to guy in this team imo.

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    Greece may be a bit too old NT, no question here, but with Giannis they are clearly second best team after Canada in the tournament, no brainer. They can field a serious, fundamentally sound defensive lineups, have great size as a team. Lack of pure scoring and shooting, sure, but they can bite defensively, slow down the tempo and to win a low scoring game. Even Canada is at a risk to some degree depending on the whenever they gather transcendent roster or something in between. Despite the fact I like Toruko's passion, which is often similar to mine's, we should stay in a ground though when when it comes to Turkey's this year's or 2022 chances. Splendid team? I'm sorry, but it's possible anywhere, but the reality. A team with 1,7 centers? (20yo lottery pick and Sanli who drops few points in El). OK, this is one of better positions actually. There's complete desert literally at 4 (prospects won't suddenly fill it big time if there's any). 3 position is thin, there's no-one other than Osman. 2 position is thin, only Kormaz basically. 1 position is thin and generally occupied by undersized shooting first combo Larkin who goes wild and is huge liability defensively. In other words, Turkey, as of yet, remains thin team which is based on a handful of NBA players who plays opportunistic basketball. Dangerous team on a given night, but far, I mean far from splendid team. I don't see substantial change for Turkey in 2022 which you Toruko projecting for a while now. Maybe in the second half of the decade. Turkey is thin depleted NT ATM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Greece may be a bit too old NT, no question here, but with Giannis they are clearly second best team after Canada in the tournament, no brainer. They can field a serious, fundamentally sound defensive lineups, have great size as a team. Lack of pure scoring and shooting, sure, but they can bite defensively, slow down the tempo and to win a low scoring game. Even Canada is at a risk to some degree depending on the whenever they gather transcendent roster or something in between. Despite the fact I like Toruko's passion, which is often similar to mine's, we should stay in a ground though when when it comes to Turkey's this year's or 2022 chances. Splendid team? I'm sorry, but it's possible anywhere, but the reality. A team with 1,7 centers? (20yo lottery pick and Sanli who drops few points in El). OK, this is one of better positions actually. There's complete desert literally at 4 (prospects won't suddenly fill it big time if there's any). 3 position is thin, there's no-one other than Osman. 2 position is thin, only Kormaz basically. 1 position is thin and generally occupied by undersized shooting first combo Larkin who goes wild and is huge liability defensively. In other words, Turkey, as of yet, remains thin team which is based on a handful of NBA players who plays opportunistic basketball. Dangerous team on a given night, but far, I mean far from splendid team. I don't see substantial change for Turkey in 2022 which you Toruko projecting for a while now. Maybe in the second half of the decade. Turkey is thin depleted NT ATM.
    I am never enthusiastic if it comes to evaluating the situation. As I told you before you should follow the developments in the countries. I am very well aware of the capacity that Greek Basketball has and even better the Turkish capacity.
    Last edited by Toruko; 05-15-2021 at 11:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    I am never enthusiastic if it comes to evaluating the situation. As I told you before you should follow the developments in the countries. I am very well aware of the capacity that Greek Basketball has and even better the Turkish capacity.
    You're missing the point. At the moment probably only Serbia and France can be called splendid teams and even those have few weaker sides, but way above the rest ATM (well, maybe if Spain's vets would still show life, like Pau having good OG and some other old-timers, we can also include Spain). You are hyping Turkish NT that has solid starting 5 and basically no bench. There's literally no big players or prospects in Turkey aside Sengun who could truly bring big things already this year and 2022. There's no such players among top EL young players, no sure fire NBA draft material other than Sengun (where will be, but we don't talk about long term, we talk now and 2022). Sure, there's always interesting and quality prospects, and you follow them closely, I'm not here to doubt that, but there's simply no objective ground to say that something substantially different will be happening with Turkey other than Larkin, Kormaz, Osman and whatever 20yo Sengun will bring, the bench will be mediocre at best. Things happen, sometimes thin, but quality teams do make noise, but Turkey is far from splendid team
    Last edited by Straight forward; 05-16-2021 at 02:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    You're missing the point. At the moment probably only Serbia and France can be called splendid teams and even those have few weaker sides, but way above the rest ATM (well, maybe if Spain's vets would still show life, like Pau having good OG and some other old-timers, we can also include Spain). You are hyping Turkish NT that has solid starting 5 and basically no bench. There's literally no big players or prospects in Turkey aside Sengun who could truly bring big things already this year and 2022. There's no such players among top EL young players, no sure fire NBA draft material other than Sengun (where will be, but we don't talk about long term, we talk now and 2022). Sure, there's always interesting and quality prospects, and you follow them closely, I'm not here to doubt that, but there's simply no objective ground to say that something substantially different will be happening with Turkey other than Larkin, Kormaz, Osman and whatever 20yo Sengun will bring, the bench will be mediocre at best. Things happen, sometimes thin, but quality teams do make noise, but Turkey is far from splendid team
    Please:
    2001 born Tarik Biberovic will be Euroleagues rising star next season.
    2003 born Adem Bona will meet the team, probably another lottery pick in 2022
    98 born Ímer Yurtseven signed with the Miami Heat two days ago
    99 born Sehmus Hazer showed that he can easily play Euroleague this season
    00 born top guard Mert Akay will encounter the team 2022 (wouldnt change him for Rokas in 100 years)

    Taking 25 year old Korkmaz and 27 year old Osman with Sanli from a european top team and with solid ACB and FBC guys as rotation guys and you have a young but great core.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Please:
    2001 born Tarik Biberovic will be Euroleagues rising star next season.
    2003 born Adem Bona will meet the team, probably another lottery pick in 2022
    98 born Ímer Yurtseven signed with the Miami Heat two days ago
    99 born Sehmus Hazer showed that he can easily play Euroleague this season
    00 born top guard Mert Akay will encounter the team 2022 (wouldnt change him for Rokas in 100 years)

    Taking 25 year old Korkmaz and 27 year old Osman with Sanli from a european top team and with solid ACB and FBC guys as rotation guys and you have a young but great core.
    That's what I'm talking about, you're too eager to jump on bandwagon of the idea that Turkey is becoming true powerhouse. You're too eager to reach this while it's a long shot if it's happening at all. These arguments didn't convince me. Even if Biberovic will be rising star next season which is a wild prediction at this point, he has little to do with 2022, it's not like he will be elite player buy then already, not will be Bona. Moer Yurtseven is no-body at this point, maybe he will be something, but now it's funny to even mention (f.e. Lithuanians do not base out 2021 or 2022 chances on Sirvydis or Brazdeikis and those were at least legitimately drafted...). Hazer showed...When he will legitimately be balling in EL and will show the difference then we'll talk. Mert Akay is absolutely nobody at this point Whatever happens with him in a long run is completely irrelevant at this point cause he's nowhere near to be even mentioned (a shot at Jokubaitis, first round borderliner is extremely cheap at this point). You're just speculating on future guys and it's at this point it's just a projection and wishful thinking. There's literally zero guys who can make true difference for Turkey in given moment from this list.

    Only your last sentence make sense a little bit. It's a solid young core (surely not great, jeez..). Three role NBA players (assuming Iliasova is really becoming a grandpa) and one great prospect in Sengun who can be more than that. That's a solid thin core. That's all Turkey is about at the moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    That's what I'm talking about, you're too eager to jump on bandwagon of the idea that Turkey is becoming true powerhouse. You're too eager to reach this while it's a long shot if it's happening at all. These arguments didn't convince me. Even if Biberovic will be rising star next season which is a wild prediction at this point, he has little to do with 2022, it's not like he will be elite player buy then already, not will be Bona. Moer Yurtseven is no-body at this point, maybe he will be something, but now it's funny to even mention (f.e. Lithuanians do not base out 2021 or 2022 chances on Sirvydis or Brazdeikis and those were at least legitimately drafted...). Hazer showed...When he will legitimately be balling in EL and will show the difference then we'll talk. Mert Akay is absolutely nobody at this point Whatever happens with him in a long run is completely irrelevant at this point cause he's nowhere near to be even mentioned (a shot at Jokubaitis, first round borderliner is extremely cheap at this point). You're just speculating on future guys and it's at this point it's just a projection and wishful thinking. There's literally zero guys who can make true difference for Turkey in given moment from this list.

    Only your last sentence make sense a little bit. It's a solid young core (surely not great, jeez..). Three role NBA players (assuming Iliasova is really becoming a grandpa) and one great prospect in Sengun who can be more than that. That's a solid thin core. That's all Turkey is about at the moment.
    Look the difference between the Greek or Lithuanian League and the Turkish BSL is despite having lost power it is one of the big three domestic leagues in Europe. If you play there in any team in the BSL you are easily on top Fiba CL level.

    I mentioned just some names who are already (on the verge of ) Euroleague level. I follow them all unlike you. Its one of my jobs.

    Nobody said they will beat France or Serbia immediately but its enough when they are in the top 10 (and they will be) for now and this includes youth work.

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    I agree with Staright forward. Toruko's expectations are too hypothetical. Future predictions are no good. Right now, Turkey has four players who put numbers on the board. If it wasn't for Larkin, it would have been only 3. Korkmaz, Osman and Illyiasova. And Illyasova is 37. I wonder who will replace him any time soon? If he retires, he will be a huge miss for Turkey. Any prospect needs at least 5 years to reach his current level in a best case scenario. So you are left with Korkmaz and Osman at the moment. The rest has proven nothing yet. And it's not as if Turkey is the only one producing prospects.
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    OK, I really should open up a new thread for this hahahahaha . Sorry for spamming but its not my fault you asked but one thing I feel compelled to add. If you put 15-20 points in the Turkish Super League BSL you have proven enough already and if you do it with 18-21 you can already count on them more in the future. I watch what players are capable of and with that being said age doesnt necessarily mean anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    OK, I really should open up a new thread for this hahahahaha . Sorry for spamming but its not my fault you asked but one thing I feel compelled to add. If you put 15-20 points in the Turkish Super League BSL you have proven enough already and if you do it with 18-21 you can already count on them more in the future. I watch what players are capable of and with that being said age doesnt necessarily mean anything.
    No you haven't. The Euroleague is a level on its own. Pappas used to be top scorer in the Eurocup. But he didn't really shine in the EL. And that's the Eurocup. Not a domestic league.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victorious View Post
    No you haven't. The Euroleague is a level on its own. Pappas used to be top scorer in the Eurocup. But he didn't really shine in the EL. And that's the Eurocup. Not a domestic league.
    Was Pappas projected as a lottery pick in the NBA draft?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Was Pappas projected as a lottery pick in the NBA draft?
    Sengun alone as 20yo won't change Turkey dramatically. He probably at that time won't even be turlly elite center yet , let alone being better than Jokic, Gobert, Sabonis, Vucevic ect. He will make impact, that's for sure, but nothing more than that likely (JV, Sabonis were in lottery as well and they took time to become a force in the NT, so does Jokic). You should just slow down the hype of Turkey NT that's all. It's a thin and limited NT ATM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Sengun alone as 20yo won't change Turkey dramatically. He probably at that time won't even be turlly elite center yet , let alone being better than Jokic, Gobert, Sabonis, Vucevic ect. He will make impact, that's for sure, but nothing more than that likely (JV, Sabonis were in lottery as well and they took time to become a force in the NT, so does Jokic). You should just slow down the hype of Turkey NT that's all. It's a thin and limited NT ATM.
    He himself wont but with the other NBA guys and Euroleague guys he will. You are mentioning names here just randomly. Basketball is a team sport and if you have 8-10 talented guys you are good this easy. Has Montenegro Korkmaz, Larkin, Ilyasova or Osman? Has Greece or Lithuania them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    He himself wont but with the other NBA guys and Euroleague guys he will. You are mentioning names here just randomly. Basketball is a team sport and if you have 8-10 talented guys you are good this easy. Has Montenegro Korkmaz, Larkin, Ilyasova or Osman? Has Greece or Lithuania them?
    What Montenegro, Greece or Lithuania has to do with it? He himself won't, but with other player he will? What that even means Turkey doesn't have 8-10 talented guys. Now you have three legit players in Larkin, Kormaz, Osman and then old Iliasova who's impact is at huge question now, young and up coming Sengun and 2 solid EL guys in Sanli and Mahmutouglu. That's 5-6 guys. Don't even put true powerhouses as Lithuania and Greece here, it's 2 teams that comes right after Serbia, France, Spain (well Greece a little but on a decline because of age recently). I don't see Giannis or Sabonis, Valanciunas level players in the Turkish NT. NBA role player is your ceiling currently. Besides, even current Lithuania is liked 2 times deeper than Turkey, that's not really even a race in terms of depth and fundamentals. And this Lithuania is yet far from our best times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    What Montenegro, Greece or Lithuania has to do with it? He himself won't, but with other player he will? What that even means Turkey doesn't have 8-10 talented guys. Now you have three legit players in Larkin, Kormaz, Osman and then old Iliasova who's impact is at huge question now, young and up coming Sengun and 2 solid EL guys in Sanli and Mahmutouglu. That's 5-6 guys. Don't even put true powerhouses as Lithuania and Greece here, it's 2 teams that comes right after Serbia, France, Spain (well Greece a little but on a decline because of age recently). I don't see Giannis or Sabonis, Valanciunas level players in the Turkish NT. NBA role player is your ceiling currently. Besides, even current Lithuania is liked 2 times deeper than Turkey, that's not really even a race in terms of depth and fundamentals. And this Lithuania is yet far from our best times.
    You put Valenciunas in the same pot with Giannis and Sabonis or even Giannis with Sabonis? hahahahahahhaha

    OK, how many of these guys have Lithuania and Greece then? Zero Lithuania has two NBA bigs. One of them cant defend anyone and the other one is a normal old school big. The rest of your guys mean nothing according to your logic.

    Greece is intending to play with 40 year old guys because it cant raise a single usable guy. After this season when Printezis and Calathes retire its over.

    OK, do I understand it right? A 39 year old Spanoulis, a 36 year old Printezis and a 38 year old Bourousis is "a bit old" and Ilyasova who is actively playing in the NBA is a "huge question"? hahahahahhahahah
    Last edited by Toruko; 05-16-2021 at 06:15 PM.

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