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Thread: Final 4 2021 (Cologne, 28-30th May)

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    Default Final 4 2021 (Cologne, 28-30th May)

    Hope Admins don't mind if we can focus next three and a half weeks of accusing each other of not understanding basketball in this topic

    It comes to an end, four very good teams made it in a special season. Congratulations to them, every single one deserves the spot.

    To me final before final is somehow CSKA - Efes.
    Chances are 50-50.
    Everyone's healthy in Efes, in CSKA absence of James of course left a big mark but their back guards are doing a great job. Milutinov could be back at F4, question of course is how he would look after 3 1/2 months absence and if this is really wise to play him in a game like this when it's literally do or die.

    Barcelona - Olimpia is for me an interesting match up. I think that Barca is stronger but wouldn't wonder if Messina's "grandpas" (to use popular forum term) can upset the favourite. Barca isn't convincing to me.

    I expect atomic basketball and really look forward to seeing Efes - CSKA.

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    Hahaha... great start Katastroika! Let's bite eachother.

    First of all, too upset for great Zenit and Bayern. Even for Real and Fener... also congrats for the Baskonia and Valencia, and Zalgiris time by time, for the good season performances. Thinking the same that best 4 teams of all made it in the end. Sometimes injuries (+ covid), sometimes luck, sometimes refferries, coaching, player performances, team plays... whatever you call (as every season), made someone happy and someone unhappy. All in all, happened whatever happened and we came to the end.

    Two great matchups, four great coaches and lots of great players... I believe they will all show their real qualities. Faith, fighting spirit, coach's touchs, daily performances, injury effects and playing final experience are main factors.

    I can't even point a team to get the title easily. Imo they all more or less even chances, but... for me Barca and Efes very slightly ahead of Cska and Milan. And if that happens, i think Ataman could get it with his obstinacy.

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    Did Garuba snatch Rising Star award in front of the nose of Jokubaitis with Real-Efes series? Perhaps Bolmaro now into the race as well. Opinions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Did Garuba snatch Rising Star award in front of the nose of Jokubaitis with Real-Efes series? Perhaps Bolmaro now into the race as well. Opinions?
    Bolmaro should be nominated for 'Rising axe' award

    Kid with some skillset(to be fair) but without brain and with very visible killer instict deserved that. Vesely will vote for him, and all Fener fans. Thank him for all he did for us.

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    I hate the fact that the F4 will be conducted without fans. It should have been done in Israel which has pretty much solved the covid issue.
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    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    I hate the fact that the F4 will be conducted without fans. It should have been done in Israel which has pretty much solved the covid issue.
    Agree. I intended to buy ticket before Vesely's injury(I had big hopes before that) but then after all I don't care anymore. Euromafia rules.

    Uefa Champion league final will be held in Istanbul as I know, with fans. Fener's football fans will know better about details

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    Quote Originally Posted by EverGreen View Post
    I hate the fact that the F4 will be conducted without fans. It should have been done in Israel which has pretty much solved the covid issue.
    Certainly seems you could have had at least around 20% capacity.

    PS--Katastroika you absolutley no idea what the hell you are talking about.
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    well, this year has been almost blank for me in terms of bball, so cannot make predictions, but seeing that Ataman has not learnt anything yet about late-game situations, I do not have high hopes in the F4. I wish for a fun weekend.

    I also hope there will be games after 9pm CET (so that I can watch them).
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    Barca won 5 of 6 games against other f4 teams in reg. season. I think that this team is stronger than Armani and the worse opponent for CSKA than Efes or Armani. I hope for a Barca - Efes final because it would be the most unpredictable here. Anyway, i see Barca a little bit favorite here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncjazz View Post
    Certainly seems you could have had at least around 20% capacity.

    PS--Katastroika you absolutley no idea what the hell you are talking about.
    Hopefully Jordi will still allow Toruko to attend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamcatcher View Post
    Barca won 5 of 6 games against other f4 teams in reg. season. I think that this team is stronger than Armani and the worse opponent for CSKA than Efes or Armani. I hope for a Barca - Efes final because it would be the most unpredictable here. Anyway, i see Barca a little bit favorite here.
    No, they lost twice to Efes; 86-79 and 86-88.

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    Fener Killer Trio Javor, Lamonica, Lottermoser are out of F4..Mission accomplised guys, now time for holiday to Bahamas, Maldivler or else.., with bribery stuff in pocket..😄

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    In 2019 final game CSKA demolished Efes into parts, just Larkin was on more or less solid level.

    Sanli and Singleton didn't play that time and that could be lets say some positive change regarding Efes. But still I don't believe that you can win big games if Micic is your 1st scoring option(instead of assisting)

    CSKA is definitely worse for not having De Colo, Higgins and Chacho(3 top10 EL players). But, still they looks like favorites to me in this type of game.

    3pt defence will be the key imo. Team who manage to force opponent taking difficult shoots will probably win the game.
    Last edited by janketa; 05-22-2021 at 07:42 PM.

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    Dzikic's analysis of match ups at F4:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBJdRVjHRpE
    Barca - Armani 01:07:30
    CSKA - Efes 01:33:30

    He expects: CSKA attacking with Shengelia low post and leaving space for Voigtmann & Eric for potential rebounding, a lot of low post isolations of Clyburn (he expects huge problems for Simon against Clyburn and consider this a potential key problem for Efes and says Ataman will surely think a lot about that) - in video several good movements of Clyburn to punish Simon, short roll, pick and pop, baseline drive. Also CSKA forwards and it's really good visible go directly after receiving ball after Spanih pick and roll or even fake screen to attack heart of Efes defense.

    Efes: Everythin based on P&R at 45 degrees (nothing revolutionary said lol) / he thinks that defending this basic set is key for CSKA - also it shows very good how important Sanli is with his hand off's for short roll - a set Efes brought to perfection this year. Interesting how CSKA defended this basic pick on 0 degrees with Milutinov who didn't even came out but dropped into paint and Kurbanov as key figure who was between passing lane and there to help - Milutinov is not there at F4 but very interesting way for defending it, it has to be seen if CSKA bigs can cover this like Milutin.

    Really good analysis. Effectively it's like janketa says all season, Efes bigs are maybe not most talented but in this system crucial on both ends. For CSKA is biggest thing how they will manage to switch without misscommunication between 3,4 and 5 and how much they can pound Efes inside. Really one of the best match ups in the last year. I can't wait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    Dzikic's analysis of match ups at F4:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBJdRVjHRpE
    Barca - Armani 01:07:30
    CSKA - Efes 01:33:30

    He expects: CSKA attacking with Shengelia low post and leaving space for Voigtmann & Eric for potential rebounding, a lot of low post isolations of Clyburn (he expects huge problems for Simon against Clyburn and consider this a potential key problem for Efes and says Ataman will surely think a lot about that) - in video several good movements of Clyburn to punish Simon, short roll, pick and pop, baseline drive. Also CSKA forwards and it's really good visible go directly after receiving ball after Spanih pick and roll or even fake screen to attack heart of Efes defense.

    Efes: Everythin based on P&R at 45 degrees (nothing revolutionary said lol) / he thinks that defending this basic set is key for CSKA - also it shows very good how important Sanli is with his hand off's for short roll - a set Efes brought to perfection this year. Interesting how CSKA defended this basic pick on 0 degrees with Milutinov who didn't even came out but dropped into paint and Kurbanov as key figure who was between passing lane and there to help - Milutinov is not there at F4 but very interesting way for defending it, it has to be seen if CSKA bigs can cover this like Milutin.

    Really good analysis. Effectively it's like janketa says all season, Efes bigs are maybe not most talented but in this system crucial on both ends. For CSKA is biggest thing how they will manage to switch without misscommunication between 3,4 and 5 and how much they can pound Efes inside. Really one of the best match ups in the last year. I can't wait.
    Thank you! It's very interesting.

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    Red face

    Just having a friendly debate with my Serbian friend. Who wins this game?

    Calathes/Delaney
    Punter/Larkin
    Higgins/Shields/Hilliard
    Clyburn/LeDay
    Davies/Hines/Dunston

    VS

    Micic/Rodriguez
    Hackett/Beaubois
    Simon/Lundberg/Abrines
    Mirotic/Shengelia/Moerman
    Voigtmann/Gasol

    Feel free to quibble with the all Euro Final Four depth chart. Was harder finding definitive spots on the back end.

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    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    I watched again some finals from past years and still can't understand 2010 game when Barca destroyed Oly with double Teo(Milos and Papaloukas) and one of the best rosters in the history. It's even bigger mistery then those two Oly's titles after that.

    Looking for conclusion I think that coach role is more important then anything in F4 games. 2nd thing is the character of the team.

    So my list is

    1. Itoudis
    2. Messina
    3. Saras
    4. Ataman

    Character

    1. Barca
    2. CSKA
    3. Efes
    4. Milan

    My prediction is Barca-CSKA final

    Still there are some questions about Efes. They are team with the biggest spread between peaks(high and low). I realy don't believe in Ataman's wisdom, but with some luck in decisions(just that and not the knowledge) Efes could do something. First of all, players without character like Moerman should take minor roles. But you never know with Ataman, he will need luck

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    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Micic MVP OMG

    This way next season it could be Moerman maybe, or even Melih this (basketball) world lost mind

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    Senior Member Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janketa View Post
    I watched again some finals from past years and still can't understand 2010 game when Barca destroyed Oly with double Teo(Milos and Papaloukas) and one of the best rosters in the history. It's even bigger mistery then those two Oly's titles after that.

    Looking for conclusion I think that coach role is more important then anything in F4 games. 2nd thing is the character of the team.

    So my list is

    1. Itoudis
    2. Messina
    3. Saras
    4. Ataman

    Character

    1. Barca
    2. CSKA
    3. Efes
    4. Milan

    My prediction is Barca-CSKA final

    Still there are some questions about Efes. They are team with the biggest spread between peaks(high and low). I realy don't believe in Ataman's wisdom, but with some luck in decisions(just that and not the knowledge) Efes could do something. First of all, players without character like Moerman should take minor roles. But you never know with Ataman, he will need luck
    I find that a bit surprising. CSKA had a stronger roster than Oly in 2012 and so did Real in 2013, but not by as much as people thought at the time. And Acie Law was amazing in the 2013 final.

    I know what you mean about the 2010 team. The general opinion seems to be that they were a very entertaining team but not quite strong enough defensively, although Giannakis built his reputation on being a defensive coach. We shouldn't underestimate just how good that Barca team was either. One question though- any idea why Oly were playing Scoonie Penn so much?

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    Good luck to everybody and hope for good games for us neutrals that go down to the last shot.

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