Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

[ARMIR]

They can replace the Hagop rule with something else like a rule requiring that prospects prove that they didnt obtain citizenship to play for the NT. Thats what FIFA does.

They're not gonna replace it with anything,the FIBA members with money pointed that other countries had improved so much with the Hagop rule that they feel there's an imbalance against them.Expect this countries to totally hire a whole team of mercenaries in all sports.

[JAMSKIE]

Here comes Yeng Guiao criticizing Tab Baldwin & describing the current Gilas cadet program as "not sustainable".

I respect Yeng Guiao but the more he talks about the National team & says negative things thereto, nag e erode yung respect ko sa kanya. Coach Yeng has proven himself as a PBA coach by winning several championships with the PBA teams he had handled & what made me respect him more is the fact that most of the teams na napa champion nya weren't really that strong composition wise. But in terms of FIBA basketball or international basketball, coach Yeng hasn't proven anything. What has he achieved in the FIBA game? Yung 8th place finish ng Powerade-RP team in 2009 FIBA Asia Championship? Yung 0-5 record ng Gilas in 2019 World Cup in which we got massacre by Serbia, Italy, Iran & Tunisia?

For me, mas may "K" pa mag criticize sina coach Chot Reyes & coach Tim Cone sa Gilas becoz they have proven themselves in FIBA or international basketball. At least with Chot, we finished a strong 2nd place in the 2013 FIBA Asia Championship & we made it to the FIBA World Cup after about 4 decades of absence. With coach Tim Cone, we placed 3rd in the 1998 Asian Games.
etter
Tapos yung taong kini criticize ni coach Yeng is somebody who is a proven winner in the FIBA game of international basketball. I think it would have been better if coach Yeng just shut his mouth up. Better not to talk at all if what you would be saying is something detrimental

[mathematicianrcg]

Here comes Yeng Guiao criticizing Tab Baldwin & describing the current Gilas cadet program as "not sustainable".

I respect Yeng Guiao but the more he talks about the National team & says negative things thereto, nag e erode yung respect ko sa kanya. Coach Yeng has proven himself as a PBA coach by winning several championships with the PBA teams he had handled & what made me respect him more is the fact that most of the teams na napa champion nya weren't really that strong composition wise. But in terms of FIBA basketball or international basketball, coach Yeng hasn't proven anything. What has he achieved in the FIBA game? Yung 8th place finish ng Powerade-RP team in 2009 FIBA Asia Championship? Yung 0-5 record ng Gilas in 2019 World Cup in which we got massacre by Serbia, Italy, Iran & Tunisia?

For me, mas may "K" pa mag criticize sina coach Chot Reyes & coach Tim Cone sa Gilas becoz they have proven themselves in FIBA or international basketball. At least with Chot, we finished a strong 2nd place in the 2013 FIBA Asia Championship & we made it to the FIBA World Cup after about 4 decades of absence. With coach Tim Cone, we placed 3rd in the 1998 Asian Games.
etter
Tapos yung taong kini criticize ni coach Yeng is somebody who is a proven winner in the FIBA game of international basketball. I think it would have been better if coach Yeng just shut his mouth up. Better not to talk at all if what you would be saying is something detrimental

I think the reason why coach yeng is successful in pba, is also the main reason he is a failure in Fiba.

Coach yeng's coaching style, system, and motivation suits role players. Only Paul lee are a sure superstar when he have ros. Jeff and Gabe are high level role players. But u cant expect them to put the team in their shoulders.

Now in fiba, national team especially philippine team is/was composed of talented players who are not role players.

Coach Yeng I think is not yet experienced handling a star studded team.

Coach Chot have coached the TNT perpetual champions before coaching gilas.

Coach Tim have coached grandslam teams and star studded teams.

So, they have experience how to manage egos.

Coach Yeng, with all due respect, is a good "role players underdog team" coach.

But coaching an underdog physical hardworking team, is different from coaching a team full of stars.

But yes, I disagree with cyg statement that this program is not sustainable lol

[Sikatrix]

I actually agree that the current program is not sustainable at least long term when almost all our players are NBA/Euroleague level. Obviously once we get to that level no way we can keep talent together.

Anyway did he really say that again or is this an old issue from August?

https://tiebreakertimes.com.ph/tbt/yeng-guiao-says-current-gilas-model-not-sustainable/188501

[k3ttch]

I think the reason why coach yeng is successful in pba, is also the main reason he is a failure in Fiba.

Coach yeng's coaching style, system, and motivation suits role players. Only Paul lee are a sure superstar when he have ros. Jeff and Gabe are high level role players. But u cant expect them to put the team in their shoulders.

Now in fiba, national team especially philippine team is/was composed of talented players who are not role players.

Coach Yeng I think is not yet experienced handling a star studded team.

Coach Chot have coached the TNT perpetual champions before coaching gilas.

Coach Tim have coached grandslam teams and star studded teams.

So, they have experience how to manage egos.

Coach Yeng, with all due respect, is a good "role players underdog team" coach.

But coaching an underdog physical hardworking team, is different from coaching a team full of stars.

But yes, I disagree with cyg statement that this program is not sustainable lol

Yeng also coaches for the long haul. He likes to use his entire roster and uses frequent substitutions to keep his players fresh because he prepares for 48 minute games, 60 plus game seasons, and best of seven semifinals and finals. Good for the PBA, terrible for a 2 week tournament with knockout quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals.

[JAMSKIE]

I think the reason why coach yeng is successful in pba, is also the main reason he is a failure in Fiba.

Coach yeng's coaching style, system, and motivation suits role players. Only Paul lee are a sure superstar when he have ros. Jeff and Gabe are high level role players. But u cant expect them to put the team in their shoulders.

Now in fiba, national team especially philippine team is/was composed of talented players who are not role players.

Coach Yeng I think is not yet experienced handling a star studded team.

Coach Chot have coached the TNT perpetual champions before coaching gilas.

Coach Tim have coached grandslam teams and star studded teams.

So, they have experience how to manage egos.

Coach Yeng, with all due respect, is a good "role players underdog team" coach.

But coaching an underdog physical hardworking team, is different from coaching a team full of stars.

But yes, I disagree with cyg statement that this program is not sustainable lol

I think coach Yeng's inadequate experience in the FIBA game was a huge factor. Every PBA coach who has handled the national team would tell you that FIBA game is a lot different from the PBA game.

But you a valid point there when you said that coach Yeng isn't used to handling a star-studded team like the national team. From the Red Bull team, to ROS to NLEX, those teams were/are far from being a star-studded.

[zairex]

Not using quality bigs like douthit, blatche or kouame has been the worst blunder the pba can make. The current pba teams cant graduate from midget ball because of this. It is also discriminatory, for a racist internationally mediocre league.

Can the top three favorite pba teams even reliably beat a top sokor, chinese or aussie pro team? If they cant, they are not good teams.

For someone calling out discriminatory, you use midget and its a discriminatory remarks. Kindly research.

[zairex]

Yeng also coaches for the long haul. He likes to use his entire roster and uses frequent substitutions to keep his players fresh because he prepares for 48 minute games, 60 plus game seasons, and best of seven semifinals and finals. Good for the PBA, terrible for a 2 week tournament with knockout quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals.

I agree CYG coaching philosophy needs time to develop. Big man shooting from the outside. Weave and dribble handoff plays. Lots of movements. Na puede pang FIBA.

I hated that CYG didn't include any coach that had international experience 8n Fiba WC 2019.

[DAdmiral]

Not being sustainable is a stupid argument for not having a development program. Let's assume it's correct and you can't continue and sustain a program past 2023. , still the benefits of training and developing these kids however short has significant benefit for their as potential national team players in the future.
The simple question and case for a development program is this. Is it better to have no program at all, for our younger players? Of course not , case closed .
Sorry but Yeng simply is not exposed to what works internationally. His arguments for example that there are no such thing as a full time national team are off. In the 1st place his premise is incorrect. The reason good national teams can't have a full time team, is there players are all over the world playing for different club teams. It simply does not apply to our context in the Philippines where all our players are in the PBA locally. That is not the same context of good international teams. The reason these good national teams can come together for short stints is to begin with theyrr talent level is of a level gained from exposure in major leagues (not pang PBA, geeyz). Puro ignorant statements.

The point is this, it's not the not having a full time national team that makes a national team.quality . But it's the level of talent from major leagues that makes quality. The Serbian coach who destroyed Yeng is right , it's actually the Players that is of substandard quality, the level beyond 1 or 2 players is bad.. low level. Really. That is the problem

So now we know that is the problem quality of players, then a development program is exactly what we need.
Which is what the cadet program is training the LeBron s, Tamayo etc then get them exposed

[DAdmiral]

U.will notice in the other thread FIBA Asia I asked the question why do Asian teams do so poorly in World competition. When I asked for genuine suggestions. Everyone admittedly without realizing it , is the level of talent in Asia is not at the level of the rest of the world . That is the bottom line really. And single biggest reason for the disparity. L
Korea and China do not prepare less.than Euro, America's or Oceania national teams, their.player level is simply not as quality or as good.
It's really producing players that is the problem and we can only get better at that by them training playing against the best overseas full time. That is the bottom line

[ccharmed]

The quality and size of the top twenty fiba nt teams are way beyond what cyg and other pba coaches are used to battling. Excellent inexpensive training is also impossible as the philippines has neighbors which have midgety teams too like indonesia, malaysia, thailand and vietnam. This very difficult training constraint does not exist at all in western and eastern europe, and the americas, where you can travel to strong baller states by bus or short flights anytime.

The solution is easy but very expensive. Either you have pba foreign invitationals, or the nt regularly scrimmages abroad for at least a month against very good nts. In covid times, no sponsorship money for those are possible for the next five years.

Cyg therefore mistakenly believes the pba has the systems and personnel to win against aussie and tougher teams. The pba cant hire, or produce nba-quality eligible local and filfor players and coaches like the aussie nbl, the euroleague or other top leagues.

Madali namang itanong sa pba reps kung sino world-class players nila, at ano prueba nila.

The only realistic approach is the sbp one today. You have a full-time nt with enough young and talented players training continuously for several months every year, with plays designed for very intense and varied but specifically targeted international nts. The pba may then provide up to six top draftees and veterans during the training. This way, everyone knows and adjusts to the fact that the pinoy fiba system and training is definitely very different from pba systems.

It is ridiculous to expect pba coaches and systems to beat quality teams from sokor, japan, iran or australia because they never bothered to regularly prepare for each of such top-flight national teams. But there is no harm trying in having an all-pro nt go up against the best nts. Cyg, cone and the rest must prove their abilities to coach wins against the best outside the philippines. The track record is not there yet. The last serbian game, and the aussie fight, only showed na walang bayag ang pba players. Away at suko lang alam.

[mathematicianrcg]

U.will notice in the other thread FIBA Asia I asked the question why do Asian teams do so poorly in World competition. When I asked for genuine suggestions. Everyone admittedly without realizing it , is the level of talent in Asia is not at the level of the rest of the world . That is the bottom line really. And single biggest reason for the disparity. L
Korea and China do not prepare less.than Euro, America's or Oceania national teams, their.player level is simply not as quality or as good.
It's really producing players that is the problem and we can only get better at that by them training playing against the best overseas full time. That is the bottom line

Obviously, European and American Teams are significantly better than Asian ,and even African Teams talentwise.

Philippines and Korea are top 31 and 30 right now in the world fiba rankings. That is not bad if you consider there is more than 100 countries. That is actually above average.

It is like in a classroom of students. Top 30 student and Top 31 student will always lose to the top 15 students even if they study the same time and effort. Just because Top 15 students have better academic intelligence.

Yes, Solution is to import as many locals as we can overseas. Outside asia

[DAdmiral]

The FIBA ranking system rewards top dominant teams in weaker zones like Asia, Euro lower tier like Belgium , Poland , Montenegro, even Estonia one can argue are actually more talented and better than top Asian teams

[magic_chiongson]

The FIBA ranking system rewards top dominant teams in weaker zones like Asia, Euro lower tier like Belgium , Poland , Montenegro, even Estonia one can argue are actually more talented and better than top Asian teams

that's where the wild card tournaments come in which are almost always won by euro teams. still, it doesn't offer enough slots to deserving teams

[hmbopbaduwap]

Asian Basketball Calendar next year

SEA Games
2022 Asian Games
2023 World Cup qualifiers (2-3 wndows)
FIBA Asia U18

https://twitter.com/hoopnut/status/1...801810437?s=19