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Thread: Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

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    Senior Member IPC's Avatar
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    Default Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

    Previous thread got locked after a heated political discussion.

    Looks like the senior team is more focused on cadet development these days. Hope we can develop the players for international competition.

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    Senior Member interxavierxxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    Previous thread got locked after a heated political discussion.

    Looks like the senior team is more focused on cadet development these days. Hope we can develop the players for international competition.
    That's how it should be.
    ⋆⋆⋆⋆⋆

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    Senior Member IPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by interxavierxxx View Post
    That's how it should be.
    Yeah, and I seriously think that if they're developed correctly, these cadets might make better headway internationally than at least the 2017 FIBA Asia Cup team. I'll just reserve my judgment on whether they might surpass the 2013-14 Gilas.

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    Senior Member IPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    I think the hugot system was good enough for a podium finish for us even during the early & mid-2000's era (had we've not been suspended by FIBA). But with the rise of Middle East teams like Iran, Jordan & Lebanon as contenders in Asian basketball, nahirapan na tayo to excel using the hugot system.

    BTW, hugot system worked for us in the 2013 & 2015 Asain Championship as we won silvers in both tournaments, but of course that were with adequate period of training.
    Quote Originally Posted by interxavierxxx View Post
    And a competent coach.

    One thing I always find incredibly stupid with Yeng's coaching is insisting on using his system in the middle of a WC Qualifier campaign. Tab never threw out Chot's DDO when he took over in 2015. He simply augmented and polished it.

    In all honesty, there's nothing wrong with firing and hiring new coaches in the short term if they can build upon the foundation set by their predecessor.
    I hope the program does find continuity, even after 2023. We don't know if the development program will be continued after then. We'll need to find a way to make development the priority to whoever takes over from MVP.

    And I hope the PBA can actually give way to a hugot system that is conducive to competitiveness internationally, such as with what they did from 2012-15. Give Gilas a good period for preparation. Because, in big tournaments, we will need PBA players. Yes, some cadets may exceed PBA players, but the reverse can also be true, some PBA players will be better at their roles than most cadets of their position.

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    Senior Member IPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by interxavierxxx View Post
    More like having 2-week preparations before the actual tournament.
    Yeah. This doesn't bode well for our chances. Look at 2019, for example. We did better from 2012-16 because we were well-prepared, and that was because the PBA made time.

    I think this is an advantage of an all-cadet team. They won't be hampered that much by the PBA schedule. Problema lang, we're just banking on their potential, and we don't know if it will pan out or not, although personally, I think they'll more than likely reach their ceiling in international competition, which I think is higher than that of most of our PBA players.

    We'll just need PBA players to fill positions of need, which is why I hope the PBA adjusts its schedule for big international tournaments (which is unlikely to happen until their hand is forced).

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    Yeah. This doesn't bode well for our chances. Look at 2019, for example. We did better from 2012-16 because we were well-prepared, and that was because the PBA made time.

    I think this is an advantage of an all-cadet team. They won't be hampered that much by the PBA schedule. Problema lang, we're just banking on their potential, and we don't know if it will pan out or not, although personally, I think they'll more than likely reach their ceiling in international competition, which I think is higher than that of most of our PBA players.

    We'll just need PBA players to fill positions of need, which is why I hope the PBA adjusts its schedule for big international tournaments (which is unlikely to happen until their hand is forced).
    I know Cadets is a fyturistic program. But I still hope they performed great or good in the present.

    I remember People and Fans Claiming that Pba Players are better than College Players. WHEN GILAS 2 OUTPERFORMED GILAS 1.

    Personally, I also think Gilas 2 was better and performed better than Gilas 1.

    But Gilas 2 was one of the rare happenings in our Basketball National Team that we were able to get the best pba players, and also have ample time of preperation. (Even have tuneup games vs DR, France, ukraine,etc)

    Gilas 2019 is composed of pba players too. But it was a diaaster. Lack of preperation

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    Senior Member IPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackie Reaper View Post
    Well, SK uses different style of game compare to DR. IMO, SK counters Gilas's style while DR's style can be countered by Gilas.
    And we only beat SoKor in 2013 because they kinda changed up their style of play. Plus, their defense was man-to-man, which worked well to our advantage. They made it easier for us.

    Not the only reason, but a big reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mathematicianrcg View Post
    I know Cadets is a fyturistic program. But I still hope they performed great or good in the present.

    I remember People and Fans Claiming that Pba Players are better than College Players. WHEN GILAS 2 OUTPERFORMED GILAS 1.

    Personally, I also think Gilas 2 was better and performed better than Gilas 1.

    But Gilas 2 was one of the rare happenings in our Basketball National Team that we were able to get the best pba players, and also have ample time of preperation. (Even have tuneup games vs DR, France, ukraine,etc)

    Gilas 2019 is composed of pba players too. But it was a diaaster. Lack of preperation
    As for better than collegiate players, that was because Gilas 2 was part of a golden generation of PBA players. They were unquestionably the best team assembled in recent years, and had some of the best players in the PBA in their prime. That, coupled with ample preparation, explained our success in 2012-13.

    We really need some PBA players to fill roles that cadets can't fill. But unless the PBA's hand is forced (which I think is the only way for the PBA to give more leeway for international competition), wala rin. Question is, how can the PBA's hand be forced?

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    As for better than collegiate players, that was because Gilas 2 was part of a golden generation of PBA players. They were unquestionably the best team assembled in recent years, and had some of the best players in the PBA in their prime. That, coupled with ample preparation, explained our success in 2012-13.

    We really need some PBA players to fill roles that cadets can't fill. But unless the PBA's hand is forced (which I think is the only way for the PBA to give more leeway for international competition), wala rin. Question is, how can the PBA's hand be forced?


    By SBP signing in the 20+players to a multi year pro-am contract,with a clause that they can play outside the Philippines anytime they want but can't enter the PBA draft,through the duration of their contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    And we only beat SoKor in 2013 because they kinda changed up their style of play. Plus, their defense was man-to-man, which worked well to our advantage. They made it easier for us.

    Not the only reason, but a big reason.
    Also having the homecourt advantage was huge.. it gave the players extra motivation and energy. It's a different atmosphere

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    https://www.spin.ph/basketball/fiba/...u84HD5j8ASNtGQ

    Lesson learned we need time (at least 1 month ) for hugot players and limit to just like 2 or 3 new hugot reinforcments for 2023 WC

    to me only Kai and JC are good enough to be hugot players..

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    Quote Originally Posted by ARMIR View Post
    By SBP signing in the 20+players to a multi year pro-am contract,with a clause that they can play outside the Philippines anytime they want but can't enter the PBA draft,through the duration of their contract.
    The talent that needs to be signed to this kind of contract is top-tier talent, like Juan GDL, Baltazar, Dwight. This way, the PBA will be forced to take the leftovers as top picks. Sure, it may result in weak draft classes, but anything to ensure cooperation with the national team. If your teams can't lend, we'll have to deprive you of future talent as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    The talent that needs to be signed to this kind of contract is top-tier talent, like Juan GDL, Baltazar, Dwight. This way, the PBA will be forced to take the leftovers as top picks. Sure, it may result in weak draft classes, but anything to ensure cooperation with the national team. If your teams can't lend, we'll have to deprive you of future talent as well.
    This approach sounds like a looming FIBA suspension written all over it hahahaha��

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    The talent that needs to be signed to this kind of contract is top-tier talent, like Juan GDL, Baltazar, Dwight. This way, the PBA will be forced to take the leftovers as top picks. Sure, it may result in weak draft classes, but anything to ensure cooperation with the national team. If your teams can't lend, we'll have to deprive you of future talent as well.
    I think one of the problem also is pba schedule.

    Ofc pba contenders especially from a rival company will be jesistant to lend becauss of championship chances

    Pba should adjust his schedule.

    While SMC teaams must forget rivalry and ego. They will be credited rin nmn if they lend

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    As for better than collegiate players, that was because Gilas 2 was part of a golden generation of PBA players. They were unquestionably the best team assembled in recent years, and had some of the best players in the PBA in their prime. That, coupled with ample preparation, explained our success in 2012-13.

    We really need some PBA players to fill roles that cadets can't fill. But unless the PBA's hand is forced (which I think is the only way for the PBA to give more leeway for international competition), wala rin. Question is, how can the PBA's hand be forced?
    That's the key words right there bro. Gilas 2 had around 4 & 1/2 months of preparation/training bridging from 2012 & 2013. While Gilas-1 had the better & longer preparation (say around 2 & 1/2 years from 2009 to 2011), in terms of composition, Gilas-2 is better as it was composed of the best & the more matured players of the country.

    I want to put it this way, this current cadet team (even with Kai Sotto & AJ Edu in tow) is inferior compared to a PBA-select RP team simply becoz kulang pa yung mga cadets sa experience & maturity. But in 2 or 3 years time, the table would be reversed.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    That's the key words right there bro. Gilas 2 had around 4 & 1/2 months of

    I want to put it this way, this current cadet team (even with Kai Sotto & AJ Edu in tow) is inferior compared to a PBA-select RP team simply becoz kulang pa yung mga cadets sa experience & maturity. But in 2 or 3 years time, the table would be reversed.
    By 2023 it will be reversed, the cadets currently will be the best talented players and the best hugot is limited to Clarkson, the PBA players who were pros in 2020 are simply not good enough for Hugot.
    Of course cadets who eventually join pros like in 2022 or 23 can be included, kasi they know the system na

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    By 2023 it will be reversed, the cadets currently will be the best talented players and the best hugot is limited to Clarkson, the PBA players who were pros in 2020 are simply not good enough for Hugot.
    Of course cadets who eventually join pros like in 2022 or 23 can be included, kasi they know the system na
    nah...it is not about the best talent but being d best team in terms of the right mix of talent, cohesion, and fiba experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    By 2023 it will be reversed, the cadets currently will be the best talented players and the best hugot is limited to Clarkson, the PBA players who were pros in 2020 are simply not good enough for Hugot.
    Of course cadets who eventually join pros like in 2022 or 23 can be included, kasi they know the system na
    Im not sure this is the correct move. Like limiting yourself to cadets this early but I think the program should be judged by 2023 results so I think we should allow Tab and crew to do what they want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    That's the key words right there bro. Gilas 2 had around 4 & 1/2 months of preparation/training bridging from 2012 & 2013. While Gilas-1 had the better & longer preparation (say around 2 & 1/2 years from 2009 to 2011), in terms of composition, Gilas-2 is better as it was composed of the best & the more matured players of the country.

    I want to put it this way, this current cadet team (even with Kai Sotto & AJ Edu in tow) is inferior compared to a PBA-select RP team simply becoz kulang pa yung mga cadets sa experience & maturity. But in 2 or 3 years time, the table would be reversed.
    Quote Originally Posted by DAdmiral View Post
    By 2023 it will be reversed, the cadets currently will be the best talented players and the best hugot is limited to Clarkson, the PBA players who were pros in 2020 are simply not good enough for Hugot.
    Of course cadets who eventually join pros like in 2022 or 23 can be included, kasi they know the system na
    I also think the situation will be reversed by 2023. Hopefully, the cadets who eventually go pro will play outside the PBA so they can improve further and there's less chance that their availability for Gilas will be compromised.

    As for applying the hugot system to PBA players who are former cadets, pwede naman din. Question is, will some teams with former cadets be willing to sacrifice their players (and probably championship aspirations) for the good of the national team? Hopefully, it doesn't get to this point, meaning that the cadets outside the PBA will be better for Gilas than any PBA pros.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    I also think the situation will be reversed by 2023. Hopefully, the cadets who eventually go pro will play outside the PBA so they can improve further and there's less chance that their availability for Gilas will be compromised.

    As for applying the hugot system to PBA players who are former cadets, pwede naman din. Question is, will some teams with former cadets be willing to sacrifice their players (and probably championship aspirations) for the good of the national team? Hopefully, it doesn't get to this point, meaning that the cadets outside the PBA will be better for Gilas than any PBA pros.
    I think playing pro abroad means a higher chance for compromised Gilas eligibility. Thirdy is a good example. Ideally though our top prospects move on to greener pastures than the PBA, mostly for development and not for Gilas eligibility.

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