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Thread: Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. V

  1. #6621
    Senior Member IPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deku_midoriya View Post
    Nah, KBL teams are not overly dependent on their imports unlike the bleague and pba na "asa sa import". Its the fastest league in asia, with their style the closest to the european leagues. Their local forwards are taller, more athletic, can dribble and can score outside compared to japanese and filipino locals.

    To stop this debate, we will look no further that the 2019 EASL when SK Knights defeat Chiba Jets and KCC Egis defeated Utsonomiya Brex
    Honestly, this is an area where Philippine basketball can improve, especially in terms of development. The forwards are tall but mobile, athletic, and perimeter-skilled. If we can scout for mobile 6'6"-6'8" locals, might need to train them for mobility and versatility on both offense and defense. Less of those types developed into traditional fours and/or fives, more of them developed into wings or even tweeners.

    Take notes from the Koreans on this. They, and even the Japanese, are currently ahead of us on this. Yes, we have 6'6" Will Navarro and 6'6" Jamie Malonzo as wings, and 6'8" Carl Tamayo and 6'7" Justine Baltazar as more mobile tweener forwards, but we could produce and develop more of those.

  2. #6622
    Senior Member Silent Killer's Avatar
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    coaching rigodon in place for MVP Camp?

    https://tbti.me/s22i66?fbclid=IwAR2O...o2iZbS4z9Kupb0
    Philippine Malditas to FIFA Womens World Cup 2023

    <a href=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKXZkNMaQAAyZ__?format=jpg&name=large target=_blank>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKXZkNMa...jpg&name=large</a>

  3. #6623
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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    Honestly, this is an area where Philippine basketball can improve, especially in terms of development. The forwards are tall but mobile, athletic, and perimeter-skilled. If we can scout for mobile 6'6"-6'8" locals, might need to train them for mobility and versatility on both offense and defense. Less of those types developed into traditional fours and/or fives, more of them developed into wings or even tweeners.

    Take notes from the Koreans on this. They, and even the Japanese, are currently ahead of us on this. Yes, we have 6'6" Will Navarro and 6'6" Jamie Malonzo as wings, and 6'8" Carl Tamayo and 6'7" Justine Baltazar as more mobile tweener forwards, but we could produce and develop more of those.
    I hope Konov,Gagate and Amos all of whom are atleast 6'7 along with future eligibles in Ballungy & Lucero can be those guys

  4. #6624

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    Honestly, this is an area where Philippine basketball can improve, especially in terms of development. The forwards are tall but mobile, athletic, and perimeter-skilled. If we can scout for mobile 6'6"-6'8" locals, might need to train them for mobility and versatility on both offense and defense. Less of those types developed into traditional fours and/or fives, more of them developed into wings or even tweeners.

    Take notes from the Koreans on this. They, and even the Japanese, are currently ahead of us on this. Yes, we have 6'6" Will Navarro and 6'6" Jamie Malonzo as wings, and 6'8" Carl Tamayo and 6'7" Justine Baltazar as more mobile tweener forwards, but we could produce and develop more of those.
    Those players you've mentioned are still raw in terms of playing the wing position as they are still being used as bigs most of the time. In short nalilito padin, well maybe except Jamie, who was always used to being a wing in back in the NCAA D1. As for our homegrown "wings" such as Carl, Justine and Will, they all started as bigs and was developed by Coach Tab in the Gilas Calambubble to be wings. Hopefully local coaches will follow suit and see the advantage of having lengthy wingmen. Although props to these players as theyve been working on their game already, adding a 3 point shot to their repertoire. Although most still need to work creating a long range shot off the dribble. Most of them still lack creativity and being an all-around threat like JC and BRP. Next on the list to be developed into wings from bigmen are Michael Philips, Will Gozum and Zavier Lucero. Imagine filling the shooting guard and small forward spots with these guys together with JC. Now that's a tall Gilas lineup with Wingmen 6'4 and up.

    Tall Wingmen pool for 2025 and beyond:

    SG: Kobe Paras
    SG: Bobby Ray Parks Jr.
    SG: Dwight Ramos
    SG: Jordan Clarkson
    SG: Calvin Oftana
    SG: Ron Harper Jr.
    SG: LeBron Lopez
    SG: Caelum Harris
    SG: Dave Ildefonso
    SG: Kai Balungay
    SG: Alec Stockton
    SG: Chris Koon
    SG: Tyrus Hill
    SF: Javi Gomez de Liano
    SF: Jeremiah Gray
    SF: Arvin Tolentino
    SF: Ken Tuffin
    SF: Will Navarro
    SF: Justine Baltazar
    SF: Will Gozum
    SF: Carl Tamayo
    SF: Jamie Malonzo

    Undersized wings:
    SG: Jordan Heading
    SG: Rhenz Abando
    SG: James Spencer
    SG: Thirdy Ravena
    SF: David Murrell

    Outgoing wings (getting old):
    SF: Justin Brownlee
    SG: Mikey Williams
    Last edited by paliganibossalfrancis; 11-30-2022 at 06:52 PM.
    Manifesting: Philippines top 5 in the FIBA World Rankings

  5. #6625

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    Actually, Tab also tends to use go-to guys in Ateneo. He's really a defensive specialists. Just happens to have simple counters to defensive schemes.

    Defensively, Tab puts a little more emphasis on defending the perimeter on rotations. Cone's more of a protect the paint guy, but can get his guys to rotate to the perimeter, like Ginebra against the Dragons, and Gilas against Jordan.
    No disrespect to Mike Nieto, SJ Belangel, Geo Chiu and Isaac Go (Ateneo boys)... but if some other players were in their place during the FIBA OQT, like Jamie, Dwight (injured during that time), Rhenz Abando and JGDL, we could've beaten Serbia and Dominican Republic at least. I know they know coach Tab's system more than anybody else but they had no business playing at that level.
    Manifesting: Philippines top 5 in the FIBA World Rankings

  6. #6626
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    Quote Originally Posted by paliganibossalfrancis View Post
    Those players you've mentioned are still raw in terms of playing the wing position as they are still being used as bigs most of the time. In short nalilito padin, well maybe except Jamie, who was always used to being a wing in back in the NCAA D1. As for our homegrown "wings" such as Carl, Justine and Will, they all started as bigs and was developed by Coach Tab in the Gilas Calambubble to be wings. Hopefully local coaches will follow suit and see the advantage of having lengthy wingmen. Although props to these players as theyve been working on their game already, adding a 3 point shot to their repertoire. Although most still need to work creating a long range shot off the dribble. Most of them still lack creativity and being an all-around threat like JC and BRP. Next on the list to be developed into wings from bigmen are Michael Philips, Will Gozum and Zavier Lucero. Imagine filling the shooting guard and small forward spots with these guys together with JC. Now that's a tall Gilas lineup with Wingmen 6'4 and up.

    Tall Wingmen pool for 2025 and beyond:

    SG: Kobe Paras
    SG: Bobby Ray Parks Jr.
    SG: Dwight Ramos
    SG: Jordan Clarkson
    SG: Calvin Oftana
    SG: Ron Harper Jr.
    SG: LeBron Lopez
    SG: Caelum Harris
    SG: Dave Ildefonso
    SG: Kai Balungay
    SG: Alec Stockton
    SG: Chris Koon
    SG: Tyrus Hill
    SF: Javi Gomez de Liano
    SF: Jeremiah Gray
    SF: Arvin Tolentino
    SF: Ken Tuffin
    SF: Will Navarro
    SF: Justine Baltazar
    SF: Will Gozum
    SF: Carl Tamayo
    SF: Jamie Malonzo

    Undersized wings:
    SG: Jordan Heading
    SG: Rhenz Abando
    SG: James Spencer
    SG: Thirdy Ravena
    SF: David Murrell

    Outgoing wings (getting old):
    SF: Justin Brownlee
    SG: Mikey Williams
    Actually, I'm fine with Carl and Balti being fours, as they have the size for it. Balti can switch onto the perimeter, and Carl has shown signs of being able to switch. Even if they're PFs, the fact that they can competently switch onto perimeter players is enough, as is the fact that they have a perimeter skillset. Pingris, for example, was a 4/5 in FIBA, but he could still switch to the perimeter.

    If we can recruit and develop 6'5"-6'6" SFs who can defend the wing, and 6'6"-6'8" PFs who can switch to the perimeter and help on defense, then that might be a good place to start.

    Helping them be more versatile on offense couldn't hurt. 6'8" Carl handles the ball from the perimeter as a 4, and 6'6" Will Navarro can bring the ball up as a point forward. Hope we can develop more of these kinds of players as our basketball evolves.

  7. #6627

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPC View Post
    Actually, I'm fine with Carl and Balti being fours, as they have the size for it. Balti can switch onto the perimeter, and Carl has shown signs of being able to switch. Even if they're PFs, the fact that they can competently switch onto perimeter players is enough, as is the fact that they have a perimeter skillset. Pingris, for example, was a 4/5 in FIBA, but he could still switch to the perimeter.

    If we can recruit and develop 6'5"-6'6" SFs who can defend the wing, and 6'6"-6'8" PFs who can switch to the perimeter and help on defense, then that might be a good place to start.

    Helping them be more versatile on offense couldn't hurt. 6'8" Carl handles the ball from the perimeter as a 4, and 6'6" Will Navarro can bring the ball up as a point forward. Hope we can develop more of these kinds of players as our basketball evolves.
    Speaking of development, what's the news on LeBron Lopez?
    Manifesting: Philippines top 5 in the FIBA World Rankings

  8. #6628
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    Quote Originally Posted by paliganibossalfrancis View Post
    No disrespect to Mike Nieto, SJ Belangel, Geo Chiu and Isaac Go (Ateneo boys)... but if some other players were in their place during the FIBA OQT, like Jamie, Dwight (injured during that time), Rhenz Abando and JGDL, we could've beaten Serbia and Dominican Republic at least. I know they know coach Tab's system more than anybody else but they had no business playing at that level.
    It was obvious by then that the PBA had no intention of supporting Tab. You know the PBA only lent undersized bigs, Justine Chua and Raul Soyud. Even these latak guys could not reassure their presence in all practices. Tab was better off with the guys he had like Go and Chiu. He was proven right though. Balti was a revelation in those games. Except probably for the DR game was very good overall on defense. The PBA got embarrassed actually. It is good that Cone is involved with the team now. But there is no doubt Tab trumps him in Fiba. Us old timers still remember how our Centennial team, led by Cone, got defeated by China and SK despite having probably the best homegrown talent of any National team ever with some good Filfors with best preparation.

    The only reason Cone is successful now in defending the 3 is that he has the most athletic bigs and forwards in his team in Japeth, CS, Malonzo and Gray. With the exception of Kouame, Tab's Gilas front court's athleticism pales but Tab was very good in defending the 3.

  9. #6629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rds View Post
    It was obvious by then that the PBA had no intention of supporting Tab. You know the PBA only lent undersized bigs, Justine Chua and Raul Soyud. Even these latak guys could not reassure their presence in all practices. Tab was better off with the guys he had like Go and Chiu. He was proven right though. Balti was a revelation in those games. Except probably for the DR game was very good overall on defense. The PBA got embarrassed actually. It is good that Cone is involved with the team now. But there is no doubt Tab trumps him in Fiba. Us old timers still remember how our Centennial team, led by Cone, got defeated by China and SK despite having probably the best homegrown talent of any National team ever with some good Filfors with best preparation.

    The only reason Cone is successful now in defending the 3 is that he has the most athletic bigs and forwards in his team in Japeth, CS, Malonzo and Gray. With the exception of Kouame, Tab's Gilas front court's athleticism pales but Tab was very good in defending the 3.
    More reason to believe Cone will get the HC job post-WC, especially with a likely SMC takeover of SBP.

  10. #6630
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    I think Aaron Black deserves a Gilas call up, maybe not for the 2023 World Cup but for the post-2023 World Cup. This conference Black is averaging almost 13 pts., almost 6 rebs. (impressive for a point guard) & 4.5 assists per game. The guy will turn 26 tomorrow, in 2 or 3 yrs time he will reach his peak. I think he will be a good point guard prospect for the 2025 FIBA Asia Cup qualifiers & tournament proper. Kiefer at 29 isn't getting any younger. The same could be said on Iskati Thompson who is also 29 now. I think its just prudent to prepare the younger players for near future FIBA tournaments like the 2025 FIBA Asia Cup & 2027 FIBA World Cup. At 6-foot or 6-foot-1, Black is a good size PG.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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    Schonny Winston, Koon (if eligible), Personally Id take Stockton over Black because of his defense and length at 6'2
    OT: I wish Gabe Norwood can still play for Gilas at 37-38 years old but this time primarily as a PG and not the best wing defender he's known for as we now have Malonzo,Parks,Ramos. Gabe and Japeth for 2023 Worlds

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    Quote Originally Posted by carmelo7 View Post
    Schonny Winston, Koon (if eligible), Personally Id take Stockton over Black because of his defense and length at 6'2
    OT: I wish Gabe Norwood can still play for Gilas at 37-38 years old but this time primarily as a PG and not the best wing defender he's known for as we now have Malonzo,Parks,Ramos. Gabe and Japeth for 2023 Worlds
    What has Stockton shown in the PBA aside from his defense?? Aaron Black is a legit starting G in the PBA while Stockton is like an 6th-7th man on his team lmao

  13. #6633
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    Quote Originally Posted by carmelo7 View Post
    I hope Konov,Gagate and Amos all of whom are atleast 6'7 along with future eligibles in Ballungy & Lucero can be those guys
    That should be a point of emphasis for Gilas. Focus on defense from top to bottom, and recruit and develop players that can defend multiple positions. Konov, Caelum, Francis Lopez could be a start. Hope Mason and Seven can develop into defenders who can switch to the perimeter, and we can develop more of those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yessuh29 View Post
    What has Stockton shown in the PBA aside from his defense?? Aaron Black is a legit starting G in the PBA while Stockton is like an 6th-7th man on his team lmao
    Another amateur Lol
    You mean a legit starting PG on his dad's team??? Lol

  15. #6635
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    Quote Originally Posted by carmelo7 View Post
    Another amateur Lol
    You mean a legit starting PG on his dad's team??? Lol
    Bro, I don't think Aaron became a starting point guard at Meralco & has been getting the playing time becoz of favoritism as his dad is the coach of Meralco. That is clearly not the case. Aaron has earned his spot & playing time in his team. A player won't play as good as that mainly out of favoritism. Pag wala ka talagang ibubuga, no amount of favoritism or nyphoticism would be enough for you to play that well. We have seen that in the cases of Dodot Jaworski in the mid-90's & Manny Pacquiao in the 2010's.

    I think nobody here in this forum would agree with U that Aaron Black is playing like this all becoz of favoritism.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

  16. #6636
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    Bro, I don't think Aaron became a starting point guard at Meralco & has been getting the playing time becoz of favoritism as his dad is the coach of Meralco. That is clearly not the case. Aaron has earned his spot & playing time in his team. A player won't play as good as that mainly out of favoritism. Pag wala ka talagang ibubuga, no amount of favoritism or nyphoticism would be enough for you to play that well. We have seen that in the cases of Dodot Jaworski in the mid-90's & Manny Pacquiao in the 2010's.

    I think nobody here in this forum would agree with U that Aaron Black is playing like this all becoz of favoritism.
    If that's the case the i don't think you fully understand what nepotism is. Its the act of using power or influence to get good jobs or unfair advantages for members of your own family which Aaron clearly got. Now if he has proven that he's good enough for the PBA then good for him but NOT BEFORE getting into Meralco 1st and having provided the leeway to improve. If he started with another team, had time to develop and traded to his Dad's team then sure but Norman made sure he was drafted and was given opportunities that may not have been given if he wasn't with Meralco.
    Again I like the game of Aaron i wish we could swap him for LA Tenorio lol or we could've gotten him over Pinto but obviously Norman wouldnt allow something like that.
    It's like having a rich father and getting you "employed" in his company and lets you start off as a staff to one of the depts to learn the INs and Outs (earning his spots) and after a year makes you a VP for Operations and part of the Board. And clearly these kids are good because they're mostly US educated etc.
    Noone's saying he's not a good player NOW its the unfair advantages he had.
    But that's life lol
    And while we're at it let's identify his competition for Gilas PG spot for the next 5-7 years:

    Winston for sure if he's healthy he'll be on the Feb window and he's just 24.
    Koon I assumed would be eligible by then and he's 21-22
    considering Alec Stockton may be laughable now but he's 6'2 athletic and aggressive defensively (as the 12th man sure not as a starting PG for Gilas)
    Nonoy of DLSU
    JGDL of Lithuania lol
    I think the ideal setup is to get the PG chores by committee wherein combo
    guards will be alternating on these duties much like what Iskati,Perez,Dwight and Parks are doing now
    Last edited by carmelo7; 12-03-2022 at 02:45 AM.

  17. #6637
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    Quote Originally Posted by carmelo7 View Post
    If that's the case the i don't think you fully understand what nepotism is. Its the act of using power or influence to get good jobs or unfair advantages for members of your own family which Aaron clearly got. Now if he has proven that he's good enough for the PBA then good for him but NOT BEFORE getting into Meralco 1st and having provided the leeway to improve. If he started with another team, had time to develop and traded to his Dad's team then sure but Norman made sure he was drafted and was given opportunities that may not have been given if he wasn't with Meralco.
    Again I like the game of Aaron i wish we could swap him for LA Tenorio lol or we could've gotten him over Pinto but obviously Norman wouldnt allow something like that.
    It's like having a rich father and getting you "employed" in his company and lets you start off as a staff to one of the depts to learn the INs and Outs (earning his spots) and after a year makes you a VP for Operations and part of the Board. And clearly these kids are good because they're mostly US educated etc.
    Noone's saying he's not a good player NOW its the unfair advantages he had.
    But that's life lol
    But the way you reacted with Yessuh29's post, its as if you think that the only reason why Aaron Black became a starting point guard at Meralco is becoz he is the son of the team's head coach. That's clearly marginalizing & maligning Aaron's playing capabilities. Yes, I get it that because Aaron is the son of team's head coach, he got the breaks that he needed which catapulted him to the kind of player that he is right now. Kumbaga eh, he got the breaks that some other player were deprived of. But the thing is, Aaron has proven that he deserved the breaks that he got. And that what is important. If Aaron sucked despite of the breaks that he got from his father, then shame on him & his father. The thing is, that is not the case.

    Its funny that you're saying that you like Aaron's game yet you said, "i wish we could swap him for LA Tenorio lol or we could've gotten him over Pinto but obviously Norman wouldnt allow something like that". What a sarcasm right there. Its very clear that you're marginalizing Aaron. As they say, if it swims like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then what is it?

    Really, you would trade an Aaron Black for an ageing LA Tenorio (I know tenorio was an excellent point guard but he's past his prime already)? Or Aaron Black for a Pinto? I wonder what has Pinto proven in the PBA?
    Last edited by JAMSKIE; 12-03-2022 at 03:03 AM.
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    But the way you reacted with Yessuh29's post, its as if you think that the only reason why Aaron Black became a starting point guard at Meralco is becoz he is the son of the team's head coach. That's clearly marginalizing & maligning Aaron's playing capabilities. Yes, I get it that because Aaron is the son of team's head coach, he got the breaks that he needed which catapulted him to the kind of player that he is right now. Kumbaga eh, he got the breaks that some other player were deprived of. But the thing is, Aaron has proven that he deserved the breaks that he got. And that what is important. If Aaron sucked despite of the breaks that he got from his father, then shame on him & his father. The thing is, that is not the case.

    Its funny that you're saying that you like Aaron's game yet you said, "i wish we could swap him for LA Tenorio lol or we could've gotten him over Pinto but obviously Norman wouldnt allow something like that". What a sarcasm right there. Its very clear that you're marginalizing Aaron. As they say, if it swims like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then what is it?

    Really, you would trade an Aaron Black for an ageing LA Tenorio (I know tenorio was an excellent point guard but he's past his prime already)? Or Aaron Black for a Pinto? I wonder what has Pinto proven in the PBA?
    I dont think you understand me at all triggered ka eh. And yet you acknowleged he got the 'breaks' thru his dad, so its only Nepotism if you dont deliver the desired results? I even made a comparison to a corporate setup and all and yet you still dont get it? Its the undue advantages that makes it wrong not the player that he becomes. And
    Im saying Aaron is a much better player NOW than Tenorio & Pinto thus the swap thing that is clearly to Ginebra's advantage, and as a fan of the franchise why would I not agree to that swap if its real?

  19. #6639
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    Quote Originally Posted by carmelo7 View Post
    I dont think you understand me at all triggered ka eh. And yet you acknowleged he got the 'breaks' thru his dad, so its only Nepotism if you dont deliver the desired results? I even made a comparison to a corporate setup and all and yet you still dont get it? Its the undue advantages that makes it wrong not the player that he becomes. And
    Im saying Aaron is a much better player NOW than Tenorio & Pinto thus the swap thing that is clearly to Ginebra's advantage, and as a fan of the franchise why would I not agree to that swap if its real?
    Please read again your reaction to Yessuh29's post & ponder on it. Tinawag mo pang amateur si Yessuh29. Sarcasm
    "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

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    So you call me out for supposedly "marginalizing" Black but not his comments on Stockton? That he shouldnt be considered for Gilas because he's merely a 6th-7th man on his team? I smell the scent of hypocrisy
    And you're here to tell me I cant be sarcastic to that?

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