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Thread: 7 EL clubs met privately, concerned with financial affairs managed by Bertomeu & EL

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    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
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    Post 7 EL clubs met privately, concerned with financial affairs managed by Bertomeu & EL

    I think this merits its own thread considering the waves it has made just within the hour

    Donatas Urbonas:
    "Seven Euroleague clubs (Zalgiris, CSKA, Efes, Milano, Maccabi, Olympiacos, Panathinaikos) secretly met in Athens last Sunday to discuss their concerns about some financial affairs managed by Jordi Bertomeu & the Euroleague, according to sources. Official moves are expected soon."

    https://twitter.com/Urbodo/status/1382303052028346377

    I, for one, think that Euroleague could bring in much more revenue to the clubs and Bertomeu has done a very mediocre job in that regard. Hopefully this will lead to positive change and not a breakaway of teams from Euroleague

    Also, I wonder why there were no Spanish teams present
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    My 5 pence about this issue: Basketball is a non profit professional sport and it will always stay like that in Europe since professionalization of sports in 90s. Markets where it is popular are no big markets. Russia - semi-popular and far behind football and hockey, Turkey popular but not like in other countries and not even close to football, Germany is enough to hear what Lucic says that no one in Munich knows him and if he says he plays basketball for Bayern people ask "What, Bayern has a basketball team?", Italy is far behind football, France non factor, UK totally non-existing. I don't know what revenues we are expecting if TV revenues are 100 years behind local football leagues, not to speak about Europa League or even Champions League. Only sustainable market is Spain but even there big clubs are pocket money organizations of respective football clubs.

    Generally there is no basketball team in Europe that makes plus. I am totally against construct of closed EL but realistically I don't think someone different than Bartomeu would make much better job.

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    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    I agree that popularity of the basketball in Europe is an issue. Football clubs in Europe have even higher budgets then NBA clubs, so money isn't problem but something else.

    In Turkey football is in 1st place then 3 places empty, then basketball. True basketball fans like you have in USA are very rare.

    As I know in America, you have basketball, hockey, baseball or american football fans, rare case is that someone follow more then one sport. Here we have football fans in 1st place then maybe someone like to watch basketball too, or some other sport..

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    Senior Member vivo's Avatar
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    I don't compare basketball revenues with football. But if Euroleague has a claim that it's the second best basketball competition in the world, the current TV and ads revenues are unacceptable. Even laughable. I refuse to believe that they cannot be improved.
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    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    I don't compare basketball revenues with football. But if Euroleague has a claim that it's the second best basketball competition in the world, the current TV and ads revenues are unacceptable. Even laughable. I refuse to believe that they cannot be improved.
    Revenues are dependent on popularity and fan base

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    Senior Member Jazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    I don't compare basketball revenues with football. But if Euroleague has a claim that it's the second best basketball competition in the world, the current TV and ads revenues are unacceptable. Even laughable. I refuse to believe that they cannot be improved.
    I agree. There has to be a way to better monetize such a high level competition that (normally) is played in front of such passionate fans.
    How many major football games feature the kind of atmosphere that is typical in Kaunas or Belgrade?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    I agree. There has to be a way to better monetize such a high level competition that (normally) is played in front of such passionate fans.
    How many major football games feature the kind of atmosphere that is typical in Kaunas or Belgrade?
    It's not about atmosphere - atmosphere doesn't bring money. A ticket in zvezda skybox is worth a ticket at Valencia main stand (I have been both and know exactly what I'm talking about). It's simply not sustainable without huge sponsoring efforts, in many cases state near companies help. In some occasions basketball teams are just appendixes of football branches. I remember when Oktay Mahmuti told that he has feeling that in Fenerbahce fanbase 99% of people would change of Turkish Football Cup with every possible Euroleague title.

    Who will buy this TV rights? How many Euroleague TV prepayments are generated? Why they don't show the statistics? In Serbia you can watch a lot of EL games on cable network Sport Klub, I highly doubt anyone would take additional payment for the games. But basketball community got orgasms when Arena widely deepened it's NBA coverage.

    How much Turkish Airlines pays the EL? 37.5m. Euros for 7 (!) years. Highest paid player in EL is Shved with 4 million dollars or 3,34 million Euros. This is a payment literally average football players in Top 5 leagues receive. Or even worse. Who would pay in Italy for EL rights.

    Only question of me is how? This discussion has been made million of times and I maybe go to hell for quoting Dusko Vujosevic but it's as he said 15 years before: "Basketball is minus business in Europe for each and every team each and every season."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    It's not about atmosphere - atmosphere doesn't bring money. A ticket in zvezda skybox is worth a ticket at Valencia main stand (I have been both and know exactly what I'm talking about)
    Premier League football has been marketed internationally based on their games having a supposedly amazing atmosphere and "full crowds." Euroleague atmosphere is a clear asset which could potentially be marketed much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    Premier League football has been marketed internationally based on their games having a supposedly amazing atmosphere and "full crowds." Euroleague atmosphere is a clear asset which could potentially be marketed much better.
    That's simply not true (I want to edit myself - maybe it's true, but it's not the point why it is financially successful). Premier League football rise began when they changed First Division in Premier League and Rupert Murdoch bought TV rights for Sky and when they started to expand into Indian, Asian, African and to lesser extent South and North American market. Noone gives a fuck about atmosphere when a Nigerian watches Premier League. There is literally no atmosphere in this stadiums like it used to be in Pre Premier League era. Marketing aside, noone in China, India and Vietnam is watching them because of atmosphere, otherwise they would watch Serbian or Turkish league but they don't give a fuck about it. They watch it because of best players in the world that are paid by...right sponsoring and first of all TV rights.

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    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    How will you market a league where Vesely is MVP? Larkin top player? Micic best Pg? Euroleague never was that poor with talent. I have League Pass for watching Nba, because not only best Americans are there, but more importantly best players from Europe play there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katastroika View Post
    That's simply not true (I want to edit myself - maybe it's true, but it's not the point why it is financially successful). Premier League football rise began when they changed First Division in Premier League and Rupert Murdoch bought TV rights for Sky and when they started to expand into Indian, Asian, African and to lesser extent South and North American market. Noone gives a fuck about atmosphere when a Nigerian watches Premier League. There is literally no atmosphere in this stadiums like it used to be in Pre Premier League era. Marketing aside, noone in China, India and Vietnam is watching them because of atmosphere, otherwise they would watch Serbian or Turkish league but they don't give a fuck about it. They watch it because of best players in the world that are paid by...right sponsoring and first of all TV rights.
    I wasn't claiming that atmosphere is the sole reason for the success of Premier League, but it is sold as a selling point for it. I agree that it is mostly unremarkable and sanitised, especially compared to the pre PL era. You mentioned about fans around the world not caring about atmosphere and there is a truth to that but they typically never get to see those Turkish or Serbian league games you referenced, so they don't have that frame of reference for what constitutes an intense atmosphere and are thus impressed by shiny stadiums and seemingly sell-out crowds. We should also note that the Premier League doesn't have a monopoly on playing talent either, no one league can do that in football thus most of the top players are spread out in different countries.

    NCAA is somewhat sold based on atmosphere and despite featuring some future NBA stars I don't think we could reasonably claim that it is near to Euroleague in terms of quality of basketball.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    How will you market a league where Vesely is MVP? Larkin top player? Micic best Pg? Euroleague never was that poor with talent. I have League Pass for watching Nba, because not only best Americans are there, but more importantly best players from Europe play there.
    And for the privilege of seeing those amazing players coached by escapees from the British Basketball League.

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    The problem of the quality can be solved easily by producing more than the NBA can absorb. Especially we Turks have to polish our guys to reach the EL. The Serbs have a great 03/04 generation, Lithuania more than the last years, Turkey also has a great 02-04 generation. The NBA can only take 30*15 teams and not more. The Greeks with a great bunch of European player are very poor lately with talent. If you consider guys like Tsartsaris, Fotsis or even Kaimakoglou or Perperoglou are luxury ok maybe i exaggerate a bit but yeah Europe was very poor with talent

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz View Post
    I wasn't claiming that atmosphere is the sole reason for the success of Premier League, but it is sold as a selling point for it. I agree that it is mostly unremarkable and sanitised, especially compared to the pre PL era. You mentioned about fans around the world not caring about atmosphere and there is a truth to that but they typically never get to see those Turkish or Serbian league games you referenced, so they don't have that frame of reference for what constitutes an intense atmosphere and are thus impressed by shiny stadiums and seemingly sell-out crowds. We should also note that the Premier League doesn't have a monopoly on playing talent either, no one league can do that in football thus most of the top players are spread out in different countries.

    NCAA is somewhat sold based on atmosphere and despite featuring some future NBA stars I don't think we could reasonably claim that it is near to Euroleague in terms of quality of basketball.


    And for the privilege of seeing those amazing players coached by escapees from the British Basketball League.
    If Europeans rather watch games at 2AM than you know something is very wrong. You need different coaches than Obra to coach those superstars, LeBron would have killed him in one week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    The problem of the quality can be solved easily by producing more than the NBA can absorb. Especially we Turks have to polish our guys to reach the EL. The Serbs have a great 03/04 generation, Lithuania more than the last years, Turkey also has a great 02-04 generation. The NBA can only take 30*15 teams and not more. The Greeks with a great bunch of European player are very poor lately with talent. If you consider guys like Tsartsaris, Fotsis or even Kaimakoglou or Perperoglou are luxury ok maybe i exaggerate a bit but yeah Europe was very poor with talent
    Nba can easily take or talent Europe can produce. Maledon, Poku, Avdija...are all playing more than in Europe in bad teams but still. Garuba will be first round pick next year. We had never before so many young or average European players in Nba. On the other side you have future of Nba in Jokic, Doncic and Giannis. Kids nowadays give a shit for Euroleague, their only goal is Nba.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 04-14-2021 at 09:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Nba can easily take or talent Europe can produce. Maledon, Poku, Avdija...are all playing more than in Europe in bad teams but still.
    Thats not the point. The limit is strict. The best 450 player will be taken by the NBA thats for sure but others will come over to play, some will fail and come over just China is a big threat and of course the G-League if it gets the money it was claimed some years ago. It would be the final blow for the European Basketball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    Thats not the point. The limit is strict. The best 450 player will be taken by the NBA thats for sure but others will come over to play, some will fail and come over just China is a big threat and of course the G-League if it gets the money it was claimed some years ago. It would be the final blow for the European Basketball.
    You're forgetting 2 additional 2-way contracts. That's 60 players more. Sure you will get players like Bender back, but no one worth watching. Mirotic is an exception and even he's not exactly someone on whom you build a league.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    You're forgetting 2 additional 2-way contracts. That's 60 players more. Sure you will get players like Bender back, but no one worth watching. Mirotic is an exception and even he's not exactly someone on whom you build a league.
    You simply have too ambitious expectations that Europe will be able to meet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    You simply have too ambitious expectations that Europe will be able to meet.
    My expectations are very low for Europe. You have seen which players Real has bought for next year. Who from them is worth watching? And what about Efes? Micic more or less gone, Larkin will try to go, what kind of team will you have, if both go?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    My expectations are very low for Europe. You have seen which players Real has bought for next year. Who from them is worth watching? And what about Efes? Micic more or less gone, Larkin will try to go, what kind of team will you have, if both go?
    Thats what i was trying to tell you. The talent of European player are too low, more production is the only solution.

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    Additionally Micic was just considered as Larkins backup and he found during Larkins absence a good chance to show his never hit potential. European teams are forced to find guys who couldnt reach their potential and polish them.

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