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7 EL clubs met privately, concerned with financial affairs managed by Bertomeu & EL

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  • #91
    The Moon Is A SCAM(http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm)!

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Killer Bob View Post
      And I telling you all production is going in Nba and not only that, they go there as teenagers. Maledon, Avdija, Poku, Hayes are not even good enough to have important role in Euroleague and they all went in Nba last year. Before players made a career in Europe and only then they went.
      So you're paying money to watch Giannis, Jokic and Doncic murder Poku and Avdija?

      If european teenagers of average talent can get NBA contracts, that tells me that the level of quality is much closer than before, it's just a matter of view point whether you consider it adequate or poor across leagues. Many old heads will say that basketball is far worse now than it was in past years.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Killer Bob View Post
        Cool, but we're talking here why Euroleague has problems with marketing. All the best football players are playing in Europe. All the most talented kids, who are not bigger than 2 meters are playing football. Normally that people are watching football.
        Btw. players you have named are prime example of mediocrity. Do you remember when we have been watching players like Drazen, Sabonis, Bodiroga, Kukoc, Gallis, Marciulonis...Or some real Nba players like Bob McAdoo.
        Originally posted by Terrorizer View Post
        Well, that's a good news because any dissent and turmoil in Turkish Airlines IMG 7Days Jordileague means more chances for more just, more progressive and, yes, more profittable basketball system to prosper in Europe.


        Slave-like mentality like this is the root of the problem. I'm not a fan of Vesely (though he is a solid player) yet Larkin is a helluva player who will score 25+ per game with ease in the sloppy European club basketball of the late 90s - early 2000s and Micic is a great PG (and I said this even when he struggled mightily in Bayern). And how good would some late 90s Euroleague MVP like Rebraca fare in realities of today's European basketball? Most probably, in the case of Rebraca at the very best he would play a role simlar to someone like Tibor Pleiss (and he'll be absolutely destroyed by players like Tavares). Well, I'm not quite sure even about that since Pleiss at least has a decent shooting mechanics.

        I'm not saying that 90s - early 00s basketball sucked hard, these were exciting times with many great players and some very interesting teams. For example, France NT has one of their smartest and most exciting core of players in Rigaudeau-Mous Sonko-Risacher-Digbeu. And I suspect that numerous stars of that generation would adapt to modern basketball demands just fine, were they born - and evolve - later, yet this stuff is an alternative history, so there's a little sense in it. Yet if we drop those guys - in a shape they were in their prime - onto European basketball courts of today, they'll fail resoundingly. And that's much less of an alternative history.

        Basketball has changed, the demands for playing on the highest professional level have changed - and they've gone significantly up. In fact, we don't see that many European mega-stars exactly because the game has changed a lot. The sloppier the overall level, the mightier the leading guys seem. Players with Shved sort of role and mentality are thankfully a rarity these days (so Khimki was really unlucky to land exactly this sort of calamity of a player), yet they were much more common during earlier, less developed stages of Eurobball. A guy like Ibrahim Kutluay dropped 20+ seasons in Europe left and right back in the 90s. With all due respect, there is a zero chance to repeat such a feat these days for a player like Ibby. And 40 y.o. injury-plagued Sabas became a dominating center in EL (and overall regular season MVP) back in 2004. Let's see how 40 y.o. injury-plagued Pau will do in today's Euroleague.
        Killer Bob destroyed by facts and logic.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Oly_fan View Post
          So you're paying money to watch Giannis, Jokic and Doncic murder Poku and Avdija?

          If european teenagers of average talent can get NBA contracts, that tells me that the level of quality is much closer than before, it's just a matter of view point whether you consider it adequate or poor across leagues. Many old heads will say that basketball is far worse now than it was in past years.
          It's 82 games season with 30 teams. I'm sure you can find solid game to watch every night, if you want.
          previously known as Beno

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Oly_fan View Post
            Killer Bob destroyed by facts and logic.
            Yes comparing sportsmans between decades in any sports have a lot of sense. Tell me how many goals, would have Pele scored in modern football?
            previously known as Beno

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Killer Bob View Post
              Yes comparing sportsmans between decades in any sports have a lot of sense. Tell me how many goals, would have Pele scored in modern football?
              It's not just about athletes becoming physically better. You're saying 'oh, the best European players all played in Europe back then, how nice" and you don't mention that the best European players now are in places 1,2 and 3 for the NBA MVP award.
              How did Galis and Kukoc compare to Jordan or Hakeem? Yet you're saying it was more fun to watch Galis, Kukoc and the mostly scrawny/overweight, pretty much talentless teammates of theirs.

              Talent production in Europe has gone UP by a gigantic amount, to the point where the best european players are the best world players and average European players can easily get NBA contracts, something that 30 years ago could only have happened for the Drazens of this world.
              We are at a point where even poor European players like Bender or Ntilikina can stay in the NBA for years.

              That doesn't show that there is a lack of talent production in Europe, it shows the opposite.

              It's 82 games season with 30 teams. I'm sure you can find solid game to watch every night, if you want.
              Last full regular season game I watched was a Mavs-Lakers game a couple years back. I remember being excited about as it was early on a Sunday but it was completely unwatchable.
              I've seen parts of other games since then and my conclusion is the same, hats off to whomever can watch a game 90% filled with 10-second posssesions but to me it's hilariously bad.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Oly_fan View Post
                It's not just about athletes becoming physically better. You're saying 'oh, the best European players all played in Europe back then, how nice" and you don't mention that the best European players now are in places 1,2 and 3 for the NBA MVP award.
                How did Galis and Kukoc compare to Jordan or Hakeem? Yet you're saying it was more fun to watch Galis, Kukoc and the mostly scrawny/overweight, pretty much talentless teammates of theirs.

                Talent production in Europe has gone UP by a gigantic amount, to the point where the best european players are the best world players and average European players can easily get NBA contracts, something that 30 years ago could only have happened for the Drazens of this world.
                We are at a point where even poor European players like Bender or Ntilikina can stay in the NBA for years.

                That doesn't show that there is a lack of talent production in Europe, it shows the opposite.


                Last full regular season game I watched was a Mavs-Lakers game a couple years back. I remember being excited about as it was early on a Sunday but it was completely unwatchable.
                I've seen parts of other games since then and my conclusion is the same, hats off to whomever can watch a game 90% filled with 10-second posssesions but to me it's hilariously bad.
                And where are playing those stars? Not in Europe for sure. How many years Drazen and Sabonis would have played in Europe, if they were born in 90s? 1? My point was that all the best played in Europe till their prime or even the whole career. And now? Garuba had great game yesterday, and he might played only 1 more game in Euroleague. Just wait few more years, when Nando&co. retire and players like Loyd dominates in Europe, if they don't get contract in Nba.
                You might not like watching Jokic, Doncic, Giannis...and I for sure don't care how random Americans look on the court in Europe.
                previously known as Beno

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                • #98
                  I don't know if you bother reading comments, you certainly don't bother understanding them.

                  You might not like watching Jokic, Doncic, Giannis...and I for sure don't care how random Americans look on the court in Europe.
                  I'm sorry but I just don't see the world through a racial/nationalist lense.

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                  • #99
                    I would not take it as a "racial" comment. no matter how good an american player is %90 of them don't get the rivalry and sense of belonging in europe. they see all this as a pit stop. I d see a european player (preferably turkish) in my teams jersey rather than an american. cos they get it.

                    most european players will come back. nando has returned to europe for instance. vesely, mirotic...melli might return sometime soon. so I dont see players like loyd dominating. not every european prospect or star thrives in nba. finally I don't even see likes of giannis or dirk as european players. there will always be players like nando&co. I don't agree with that european basketball is doomed arguement. it is not 90s anymore, we dont have domestic stars here for a long time. we are used to it by now. yet players like bogdan, delaying that nba transition are a rarity.
                    sex, droga i bodiroga.

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                    • A bit of a side issue but I always admired Euro fans who consistently stay up late to watch their favourite player or team. But I've always thought with so many regular season fixtures, how a fan of an NBA team could be overly invested in the outcome of any single game. Sometimes they play again the very next night. I know there's avid MLB fans in Europe too, and they play even more games than in basketball. I understand wanting to watch favourite players and preferably watching them live, even if it is late, but don't know how they'd get so hyped up each night.

                      I know we have this debate too over Euroleague and games having less intensity or interest due to the increased volume of games, but at least for most of us there is no sleep deprivation involved in watching them.

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                      • Euroleague will be closed from the season 2023/24.

                        Unfortunately there is not enough force and interests to stop it the same like super league in soccer.

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                        • Originally posted by Obina View Post
                          Euroleague will be closed from the season 2023/24.

                          Unfortunately there is not enough force and interests to stop it the same like super league in soccer.
                          No need to stop it. If they are really abolishing eurocup, that's a good enough gift on itself. Let EL teams further lose money untill realising that.
                          From a financial stand point, it's hard to understand the wish of some clubs to enter euroleague. From a competitive stand point, of course they do, but financialy it's a borderline mazochism. This is not football where top clubs want to improve their finances by some billions, this is basketball where clubs are considering abolishing their safety net against Fiba (literaly) and a good portion of legitimacy among fans for 4 million € per year that could be divided among 18 clubs. That is 222.222 € per season, per club. I will not further comment this, no matter how tempting and how hard I am laughing my ass of by that number...

                          Even if euroleague doubles the tv revenues next year (and they won't), for the big spenders those 1,5 millions won't make a difference. Some might decrease their loss a bit, while others will probably overspend further. And I sincerely don't believe the bottom teams will get the same as the top spenders. So, basicaly, for half of euroleague teams the end game is throwing 100M out of the window in 10 years, as for the other half trying to steal a win now and than, trying to present that in as good way. Marketable as f... i must say.
                          At least it will be within a while, when 1/3rd of teams will be like: hey, we suck for the past 3 seasons, but remember 2021 when we almost reached the quarterfinals and ended up 10th, hell yeah! Even Žalgiris, Maccabi or Pao fans will get bored eventualy.

                          Fiba personel is probably still in the office, having a party.
                          Originally posted by Jon_Koncak
                          That's funny shit.I cant believe there are sports fans thinking like it.It's like Federer losing to random Japanese player in round 1 of French Open but tournament director stepping in and saying "hey it was a fluke win who wants to watch a random Japanese guy in next round,Federer qualifies"

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                          • Originally posted by JoÅ¡ko Poljak Fan View Post
                            No need to stop it. If they are really abolishing eurocup, that's a good enough gift on itself. Let EL teams further lose money untill realising that.
                            From a financial stand point, it's hard to understand the wish of some clubs to enter euroleague. From a competitive stand point, of course they do, but financialy it's a borderline mazochism. This is not football where top clubs want to improve their finances by some billions, this is basketball where clubs are considering abolishing their safety net against Fiba (literaly) and a good portion of legitimacy among fans for 4 million € per year that could be divided among 18 clubs. That is 222.222 € per season, per club. I will not further comment this, no matter how tempting and how hard I am laughing my ass of by that number...

                            Even if euroleague doubles the tv revenues next year (and they won't), for the big spenders those 1,5 millions won't make a difference. Some might decrease their loss a bit, while others will probably overspend further. And I sincerely don't believe the bottom teams will get the same as the top spenders. So, basicaly, for half of euroleague teams the end game is throwing 100M out of the window in 10 years, as for the other half trying to steal a win now and than, trying to present that in as good way. Marketable as f... i must say.
                            At least it will be within a while, when 1/3rd of teams will be like: hey, we suck for the past 3 seasons, but remember 2021 when we almost reached the quarterfinals and ended up 10th, hell yeah! Even Žalgiris, Maccabi or Pao fans will get bored eventualy.

                            Fiba personel is probably still in the office, having a party.
                            I thought they were "just" turning Eurocup into a literal second tier of Euroleague? Basically an almost entirely closed league and only 20 clubs participating?
                            One question- are they still planning on expanding Euroleague from 18 teams?

                            Totally agree about the dismal financial "incentives" involved in all this. Like you say, to qualify for the Champions League in football is like winning the lottery. A pretty stark contrast to what EL is offering...

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                            • Mr Vatutin on the future of national leagues...

                              ABOUT A CLOSED EUROLEAGUE

                              This perspective is under discussion. But the question is broader. In the future we may have more elimination games.We are facing with three alternatives since many years. Leave the national championships, but there could be legal problems. Play only the national playoffs, but other clubs may disagree. Create two teams, one for EuroLeague and one for national championship, but there would be a budget problem.

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                              • Looks like Unicaja is seriously considering defecting to the BCL, which would be another loss to Jordi, especially after it appears that Khimki will disappear from top level competition.

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