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Thread: EL Playoffs 2021

  1. #201
    Senior Member Gman365's Avatar
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    Nice job Zenit...Hats off to them ...

    Barcelona to still win the series though....

  2. #202
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    I like this situations when some guys are so smart and knows everything. It's so easy to say Barca is overpaid because they lost one game. Same people talked about Pangos as mediocre player because advanced stats showed different

    But guys this is just one game and Barca is still the best team and the best roster and they will play F4.

  3. #203
    Senior Member janketa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    I think Pierre will play in the 2nd game

    Also, I don't think it's feasible to play 5 guys 35 minutes. Even today they were tired in the last quarter which led to turnovers and CSKA breaking the game
    This is tonight rotation minus Melih. I just removed him

    Simply add to Biberovic 15 minutes from Melih and that's it. I hope we agree

    In case Pierre will play, that will help in sharing time a lot

  4. #204
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivo View Post
    Higgins - Mirotic - Davies is an exceptional trio for Euroleague and I'm not even getting into Calathes etc... As well as a crazy deep roster than can press the ball all game and attack the rebounds to tire opponents out. Yes they are overpaid but that doesn't matter regarding their performance

    If Barça is not steamrolling anyone other than Efes it's because of Saras
    He could steamrolled everyone, if had he put shooters in. Higgins/Kuric/Abrines/Mirotic/Davies are the best shooting lineup in Euroleague, but for some reason Barca is 16th in 3-points attempts. And you have Calathes to run your second team, which needs his creativity far more.
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  5. #205
    Senior Member iraz's Avatar
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    Zenit played a great game today. It was a must win for them, because Barca has obviously underestimated them. If they hadn't win today it would have most probably be 0-3 for them. And now they have real chances, IMO. Barca was greatly overpraised the whole season as the potential champion, and now they need extra concentration. If the series go into 5th game, I'd bet on Zenith, though Barca still is the favourite.

  6. #206
    Senior Member Gman365's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    He could steamrolled everyone, if had he put shooters in. Higgins/Kuric/Abrines/Mirotic/Davies are the best shooting lineup in Euroleague, but for some reason Barca is 16th in 3-points attempts. And you have Calathes to run your second team, which needs his creativity far more.
    Those are actually pretty good ideas but can Higgins and Hanga orchestrate the offense well enough ? Saras likes set offense so i guess if they play the system well enough they could handle it.....

  7. #207
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman365 View Post
    Those are actually pretty good ideas but can Higgins and Hanga orchestrate the offense well enough ? Saras likes set offense so i guess if they play the system well enough they could handle it.....
    Having non shooting ball-handler in set offense? Saras will do what he does best in game 2, hard D on the limit, believing how referees can't whistle everything. That might be enough.
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmax View Post
    Yes! the Good beats the Evil and Xavi showcasing once again that an overrated clown Sharas is
    Well, during first half Saras was clearly outplayed and outwitted by Pascual but, truth to be said, he made great adjustments after a halftime. A nontrivial decision to put Claver on Pangos in defense paid off hugely. Pangos got tired down extremely fast and, unlike the first half, Khvostov's substitution wasn't successful. Actually, Pangos played an atrocious second half, offensive organization went to smithereens with Kevin emanating those nauseous Shved vibes while Zenit's sizeable lead was successfully eliminated by Barca. Barcelona, on the other hand, started to move the ball much better and they've started to exploit Zenit's defensive weaknesses on a regular basis.

    I think that KC Rivers' top notch offensive performance in the second half was the most crucial in securing a win for Zenit. And also I want to emphasize how smartly Zenit handled Mirotic - they've exploited him in defense while forcing him to take difficult shots on offense, and this evening those shots mostly weren't falling.

    Overall, I don't like Zenit's main sponsor, Gazprom, and I don't even care that much for JordiLeague but today this Zenit team deserves congratulations, for sure. A huge and extemely important win for them.

    P.S. Pau's defense was totally spectacular, by the way. And in some 2001 in his current form he had much more chances not to be a sad joke on the highest European level.

    P.P.S. I hope that Gudaitis ain't injured seriously. His presence is very important for Zenit's success in this duel.
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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Seriously, what is the point of Barca having Calathes. You don't need him in regular season and he's useless in playoffs?
    You are saying Calathes is the worst player of all time in the playoffs but when you look much better especially that series against Real he was actually pretty, pretty good. 1st game he had like 15 assists. 2nd game best PIR. In the 3rd game he was knocking 3pt by 3pt in the 2nd half and he was keeping Pao alive in that game and he was basically the reason why Pao catched huge deficit in 2nd half. He had by far the most points. 4th game also very good. In that series he was the best player. Its not his fault that Real just had brutally good playoff that year and that Reyes somehow showed in the 4th q od the 2nd game and that Doncic knocked that crazy 3pt bank shot in the last min of the 4th game. Year before he had to play against probably the strongest team and the team which was in the best form in the playoffs in the last 7-8 years (fener). In 2019 against Real PAO was just huge underdog and I think Lebron couldnt help them to beat them. So actually for me his only bad playoff performance even tho he wasnt leader then was against Baskonia. But that roster of Pao that year was just laughable (Jankovic, Feldeine, Eliott Williams, Diamantidis last season, Sasha Pavlovic....) and Baskonia was damn good and played the best basketball (something like Efes this year). Even today idk how did u make a conclusion that Calathes is the reason why Barca lost? Calathes is the strongest when he has freedom and when team plays a little bit faster so he can dominate on the open court. Barca plays slow af...if he is better shooter we wouldn't even talk here abt him cuz he would be in the NBA with the nice minutes in the rotation of pretty much any nba club.

  10. #210
    Senior Member Gman365's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    Having non shooting ball-handler in set offense? Saras will do what he does best in game 2, hard D on the limit, believing how referees can't whistle everything. That might be enough.
    Well adjusting the sets a bit to get more open 3's and letting Nick run the second unit are not terrible ideas, but i doubt they do that this late in the year, unless it's an emergency...

    Keep in mind they got the first overall seed doing it the way they have been all year.....Let's just see how the rest of the series plays out...Pretty sure they still win it....

  11. #211
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    You are saying Calathes is the worst player of all time in the playoffs but when you look much better especially that series against Real he was actually pretty, pretty good. 1st game he had like 15 assists. 2nd game best PIR. In the 3rd game he was knocking 3pt by 3pt in the 2nd half and he was keeping Pao alive in that game and he was basically the reason why Pao catched huge deficit in 2nd half. He had by far the most points. 4th game also very good. In that series he was the best player. Its not his fault that Real just had brutally good playoff that year and that Reyes somehow showed in the 4th q od the 2nd game and that Doncic knocked that crazy 3pt bank shot in the last min of the 4th game. Year before he had to play against probably the strongest team and the team which was in the best form in the playoffs in the last 7-8 years (fener). In 2019 against Real PAO was just huge underdog and I think Lebron couldnt help them to beat them. So actually for me his only bad playoff performance even tho he wasnt leader then was against Baskonia. But that roster of Pao that year was just laughable (Jankovic, Feldeine, Eliott Williams, Diamantidis last season, Sasha Pavlovic....) and Baskonia was damn good and played the best basketball (something like Efes this year). Even today idk how did u make a conclusion that Calathes is the reason why Barca lost? Calathes is the strongest when he has freedom and when team plays a little bit faster so he can dominate on the open court. Barca plays slow af...if he is better shooter we wouldn't even talk here abt him cuz he would be in the NBA with the nice minutes in the rotation of pretty much any nba club.
    You got it wrong. I said the most overrated player. Expectations for player like Calathes is a bit different than for Ulanovas.

    We can start with yesterday. What would have happened, if he had played just 75% of Pangos performance? Barca would have won easily.

    If supposedly 1 of the best playmakers of the game is 1/14 in playoffs as a leader something must be wrong. Leaders are the ones, who should lead their team to the win and that is even more true, if they're playmakers. They should takeover games, when it's crunch time. Pangos did exactly that yesterday. I agree, even the best players cannot win everything alone. But 1/14 are brutal numbers. Yes Pao played against some good clubs, but Pao was good team too. They had home court advantage twice. Real with Luka was without Campazzo and Llull returned for last 2 games after 1 year long injury. So Real basically had only 18 years old playmaker.

    The problem with Calathes is obvious in playoffs, coaches just leave him open and risk that he makes some 3s, but take his driving and spacing away. It's exactly the same problems Simmons has in Nba.

    He was awful in Fener series too. Just compare leader Bogdanovic and leader Calathes. What happens if you switch those 2? And that's the only thing I'm saying, leader should lead and win some games.

    Yes, if he was a shooter, he would have been...Simmons would have been better than LeBron, if he was an average shooter. Unfortunately basketball is about putting basketball in a basket.
    Last edited by Killer Bob; 04-22-2021 at 07:31 AM.
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  12. #212
    Senior Member Serbian_Layup's Avatar
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    I think Barca-Zenit game was a good example what it takes for underdogs to win against best basketball teams. Aside from good coaching, disciplined and engaged defense, there will be moments where you will be forced to hit some tough shots to win the game no matter how much better you played throughout the game and even had a big lead. Barca has the best perimeter defense in the league with Calathes, Higgins, Hanga and Claver who is one of the most switchable forwards, and it was clear that they were going to bring hell to Zenit from the start of the second half. There were few moments where anybody could think "this is it, Barca got them", but those are the moments where big shots are due to not just keep you in the game but also kill the spirits of tough and engaged defense. More talented teams have a possibility to put other teams in various difficult situations and heavy pressure, but that exactly is a sword with two blades, because the other less talented team if ready and up to challenge to last longer in adversity can break a team with more powerful weapons, because sheer power can't last longer than resilience. That's the beauty of life, because everything balances out in the end. David had nothing to do with Goliath, but that's exactly the story that tells no one is left without weapons no matter how unjust it looks on the surface, just need to accept adversity and look for those weapons without fear (by weapons I tend not to think about physical weapons).

    Zenit had Pangos and KC Rivers who hit more than a few tough shots last night and completely deservedly won the game. I don't expect Barca to be too dejected after this loss though, it will be hard for Zenit to repeat such a good game on both ends. In the best of 5 series it's a lot harder to win against heavily favored teams than in one knockout game. And there is another problem for Zenit - Pangos and Billy Baron (so as Hollins) are all thinner than all of the players in Barca's backcourt/perimeter, it's questionable how much they can cope physically on both ends of the floor while being expected to hit important shots and defend reasonably well. I'm not a coach, but I would look into possibility of switching Pangos/Baron on Barca's best drivers and attack them and wear them out on defensive end. Anyway, Pascual is good and Zenit is a tough nut to break.

  13. #213
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    Cant get much worse for Madrid. Now no Tavares. As we all know they should have gotten a better upgrade for Randolph than Tyus.
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  14. #214
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    There're some seasons that you just cannot do anything.
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  15. #215
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    Causeur and Lull have been a little bit selfish, they could have easily made a couple of extra passes for wide open shots instead of taking bad layups at the rim.

  16. #216

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    Disappointing Real. The impression is that none is really ready for PO in this team. I like Garuba's energy, but that's it. Probably teams like Valencia, Baskonia would give better run for Efes now.
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  17. #217
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    I cannot believe that Laso didn't hedge on Efes guards one single time. He has ideal personel for that today as Tavares doesn't play and it's literally your only chance against Efes.

    Horrible flopping on both sides by the way

  18. #218
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Disappointing Real. The impression is that none is really ready for PO in this team. I like Garuba's energy, but that's it. Probably teams like Valencia, Baskonia would give better run for Efes now.
    My guess is that every team has breaking point from where is no coming back. Tavares was the last crucial player still playing.
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  19. #219
    Senior Member wyopeq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Bob View Post
    There're some seasons that you just cannot do anything.
    With or without Tavares, Efes is too much for Real Madrid. It is not that hard to admit this reality Bob.
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  20. #220
    Senior Member Killer Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyopeq View Post
    With or without Tavares, Efes is too much for Real Madrid. It is not that hard to admit this reality Bob.
    Players have nothing with that, but some minor injuries directly before F4 would probably be needed for understanding how difficult is playing without all important players. Tavares is half of Real's D. I don't like Barca, but because of Efes fans, I will have big problems not to be against Efes, if they by chance meet.
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