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Thread: Lithuania in Eurobasket 2022

  1. #141
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    I suppose this is your wish to say just STFU and don't criticize Lithuanian players cause "that's offensive", no?
    No, that's not it at all. The "problem" is that you keep repeating very controversial opinions as if they're statements of fact or at least near universally accepted by the Lithuanian fans posting here. But this forum is not just a conversation between the two of us or the few Lithuanian fans actually posting here. These posts are widely read. Just look at the number of views.

    The reason I'm actually putting myself to the inconvenience of challenging some/many of your assertions is that I don't want readers to get the impression that what you're saying about Valančiūnas is the conventional wisdom on this board. Since you keep repeating it so often, it can look that way to outside observers. But there's no widespread agreement on the subject among us here on this board. It's only you and your doppelganger Svajūnas who believe the hypothesis that Team Lietuva would be better without Valančiūnas.

    Last edited by Hepcat; 09-30-2021 at 01:55 AM.

  2. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    No, that's not it at all. The "problem" is that you keep repeating very controversial opinions as if they're statements of fact or at least near universally accepted by the Lithuanian fans posting here. But this forum is not just a conversation between the two of us or the few Lithuanian fans actually posting here. These posts are widely read. Just look at the number of views.

    The reason I'm actually putting myself to the inconvenience of challenging some/many of your assertions is that I don't want readers to get the impression that what you're saying about Valančiūnas is the conventional wisdom on this board. Since you keep repeating it so often, it can look that way to the outside observer. But there's no widespread agreement on the subject among us here on this board.

    We don't know how many people agree or disagree with me, but absolute majority who show up here with a written word surely disagree, LOL So you have a problem only with JV? I speak about weak spots of each player who is relevant to Lithuanian basketball, but somehow you are most concerned with JV or Butkevicius, or Kariniauskas. Kill all your darlings. I like the conversation with those who are able to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  3. #143
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    We don't know how many people agree or disagree with me, but absolute majority who show up here with a written word surely disagree, LOL So you have a problem only with JV?
    The "problem" is simply that I completely disagree with your assertion that Valančiūnas makes the rest of the team worse. I'll continue to allow Madmax to carry the torch for JV otherwise. I used to disagree with Madmax's opinion that Robertas Javtokas should concede his place on the national team to JV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    I speak about weak spots of each player who is relevant to Lithuanian basketball, but somehow you are most concerned with JV or Butkevicius, or Kariniauskas. Kill all your darlings.
    Arnas Butkevičius and Vaidas Kariniauskas were simply two players I noticed (yes from the stats sheets) whose play made them worthy of national team consideration when they didn't have much of a profile and weren't part of the general narrative here. I didn't overpraise either player. I simply said they should be invited to camp because I thought they had a very realistic chance of making the team. I said the same about Renaldas Seibutis way back before the summer of 2012.


  4. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    The "problem" is simply that I completely disagree with your assertion that Valančiūnas makes the rest of the team worse.
    It's not a problem to disagree. It would be a horrible place to be if we couldn't do that. Maybe I can formulate the argument less negative - JV doesn't make others better. The best player should be able to do that. Whenever it was Sabas, Rooney in 90's, Jasikevicius in 00's, Kalnietis in 10's. They all were making the team better. While JV can't do it. He can get his buckets, but this way he kills the pace, natural flow and he can't facilitate, make quick spot on decisions.

    And one more correction. The thesis is not to say that Lithuania would necessary be better without JV, no-one knows it, and it may be even worse, but since we have been building around him in 2016, 2017, 2019, 2021 and we failed, I say it would be "healthy" for Lithuania to try something else. We had 4 major tournaments to realize it doesn't work.

    Back to Gudaitis. I want to see how we look when Gudaitis provides real D at 5, plays within the flow offensively. I have a feeling we would look pretty good and guys like Grigonis, Lekavicius, R. Giedraitis, Jokubaitis would feel more natural and more decisive. I will be very disappointed if again we will talk how great 2 NBA centers we have and we will play one dimensional basketball and we lose. At least some change of style would a lot alone. Something like playing normal, contemporary basketball would be very nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  5. #145
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    At least some change of style would a lot alone. Something like playing normal, contemporary basketball would be very nice.
    We don't have the guards or small forwards to play the guard driven perimeter game you call modern contemporary basketball well enough to be competitive with that type of game. We'd need Šarūnas Marčiulionis, Rimas Kurtinaitis, Artūras Karnišovas, Saulius Štombergas, Šarūnas Jasikevičius, Ramūnas Šiškauskas and Arvydas Macijauskas to come out of retirement but they all seem to have better things to do with their time, e.g. coaching, fishing, playing video games, etc. Maybe some of the prospects will truly emerge during the World Cup qualifiers or during next summer's pre-Eurobasket camp but that remains to be seen.



    P.S.: I'm getting a pop-up ad for a T-shirt with the slogan "I've had all my shots but I want you to stay the hell away from me anyway". I like that one!

    Last edited by Hepcat; 09-30-2021 at 02:38 PM.

  6. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    We don't have the guards or small forwards to play the guard driven perimeter game you call modern contemporary basketball well enough to be competitive with that type of game. We'd need Šarūnas Marčiulionis, Rimas Kurtinaitis, Artūras Karnišovas, Saulius Štombergas, Šarūnas Jasikevičius, Ramūnas Šiškauskas and Arvydas Macijauskas and they all seem to have better things to do with their time, e.g. coaching, fishing, playing video games. Maybe some of the prospects will truly emerge during the World Cup qualifiers or during Eurobasket but that remains to be seen.

    It shouldn't be primarily perimeter orientated basketball. There simply should be more balance, much like it was in 2019. Adomaitis was very close. He gave green light for Grigonis, Lekavicius and Kalnietis aggression in p'n'r situation and overall. Lekavicius was having a major tournament, that alone changed our identity a lot. We were playing normal, balanced basketball basically, and if threes had fallen better we probably could achieve something. Even struggling with shooting, we lose only in crunch time against France and Australia. In 2021 it seemed like we lost that momentum. Lekavicius wasn't so aggressive, Grigonis a little bit out of shape, R. Giedraitis distrusted by coach and himself and we again were looking too much at JV and Sabonis and we were trying to brake the wall with the heads in the paint. That's not going anywhere, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  7. #147
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Well Team Lietuva now has a new coach. Hopefully this one will be at least as good as Dainius Adomaitis because the last one wasn't even close to being up to the job.


  8. #148

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    Horrible defence by Motiejunas. Just as I expected he is barely playable. And that was against one of the worst EL teams. I think this season Motiejunas will put off the mask. The way I see it, he will barely get another EL contract after this season, any substantial at least. He would have to be super good offensively to compensate absolutely non-existant defence. And he's not. Couple of fancy hooks won't do it. At the mid of the season he will be treated as vast disappointment for Monaco, IMO.

    Grigonis looks anxious and soft. I don't see an upside for him to become a starter for contending EL team. He's just a role player, but even to fill this role will be hard for him in CSKA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  9. #149
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    Horrible defence by Motiejunas. Just as I expected he is barely playable. And that was against one of the worst EL teams. I think this season Motiejunas will put off the mask. The way I see it, he will barely get another EL contract after this season, any substantial at least. He would have to be super good offensively to compensate absolutely non-existant defence. And he's not. Couple of fancy hooks won't do it. At the mid of the season he will be treated as vast disappointment for Monaco, IMO.
    I was afraid that Donatas Motiejūnas would end up soft as a result of playing in China. It's too easy to be a big star in the Chinese league.


  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    I was afraid that Donatas Motiejūnas would end up soft as a result of playing in China. It's too easy to be a big star in the Chinese league.

    It's funny how absolute majority of average Lithuanian fans celebrate a great start of D-Mo because of couple fancy buckets and passes. From what I've seen he would be a disaster for NT just as he was in 2017. But it's not China which screwed him, It's his back injury in 2014/2015 season. He was balling for Rockets, without any exaggeration, he was playing decent D and very very solid O. He was a legitimate starting PF just before that fatal shit. But than his back collapsed, he lost athleticism, agility, explosiveness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  11. #151

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    I wouldn't exaggerate a lot if I would tell that such a start of Jokubaitis made me more happy than Domas making an All Star roster last season. Again, this is just obvious now that we have special package in Jokubaitis after so many years of guards drought. 21eff is his career high. Very hope that Saras will unleash him more frequently now. These freakin' 6min in ACB was a concern. What an energy by a young fellow:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlCc...channel=LuckyD
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  12. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    k.net and 15min are writting basically identical our B team lineups for window games that will look similiar to this:

    Kariniauskas,Normantas,Velicka
    Dimsa,Girdziunas,Valinskas
    Butkevicius,Gailius
    Bendzius,Masiulis,Miniotas
    Birutis,Geben,Echodas
    With 42 days to go couple of remarks.

    FOA, I'm really satisfied with coaching staff. Federation partially fulfilled the requirement that some-one would work with the NT full time, and it's K. Kemzura. To have 2 legitimate head coaches (Maksvytis and Kemzura) in the team and one potentially to become such (youngster Žibėnas) is pretty solid. I don't know much about Rinkevicius, but he obviously helped Maksvytis to be successful.

    Watched almost all candidates and I the main concern is that we may not have true guys to go in upcoming windows.

    The problem is that Kariniauskas is way out of shape compered to last season, he still can improve in upcoming 40 days, but he's different. Normantas so far also was struggling and seems kinda lost. That's what happens when guys from some Neptunas, Lietkabelis goes to Rytas, mentally it's still different level to play in Vilnius. The most stable and most explosive PG today is Velicka. Pretty consistent performances. In previous windows it used to be Kalnietis, Lekavicius or Kariniauskas taking over. Not sure who will be this time, but it should be between Kariniauskas and Velicka to run the show.

    SG section is very complex and deep. We know that most likely Juskevicius will be in, so to me Dimsa and Adas are locks. Than I totally disagree what softy Valinskas should be in. Hell no. The guy is soft and out of his mind decision making wise. To me the third SG option should come from either Girdziunas, Beliauskas, Sargiunas, D. Giedraitis. I have a sense that Beliauskas is the best player out of the bunch, solid start in ACB. We have enough of vets in this position (specially with Juskevicius) so I would let Girdziunas rest. Now the choice between Sargiunas and D. Giedraitis would be interesting. Sargiunas is more athletic and much more aggressive scorer, while Giedraitis much better decision maker and more talented system player. It depends what Maksvytis would want in a given stage.

    SF position should be fine since Butkevicius is in pretty good shape.

    At PF we know that there will be E. Žukauskas. I watched him and generally liked him. Nice size, physical, can stretch the floor, good motor, plays with heart. I'm guessing Miniotas will be left aside as he reminds Žukauskas the most to me and other 2 should be Bendzius and Masiulis.

    From centers I feel that Geben should be the most consistent guy for windows. Birutis is super inconsistent, sometimes he can explode, and sometimes he's just a lanky softy on the floor. Echodas lacks better decision making and D to be really good. Geben has the most complete profile to offer, but all three may be in.

    Summa summarum, the biggest issue is - who will be with the ball when it will be hot? There's no obvious answer unless Kariniauskas will really get into shape. Previously he already showed that he is a candidate to fill this position. We should beat Bulgaria with a distance, but against Czech Rep there might be close one. It would be nice to have one of Jokubaitis, Lekavicius and this problem would be solved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  13. #153

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    Depth chart for Maksvytis to choose should look something like that, IMO:

    Kariniauskas, Velicka, Normantas, Vasiliauskas, Janavicius
    Dimsa, Juskevicius, Beliauskas, Girdziunas, Sargiunas, D. Giedraitis
    Butkevicius, Radzevicius, Gailius, Lipkevicius
    Bendzius, Masiulis, Miniotas. E. Žukauskas, Olisevičius
    Geben, Echodas, Birutis, Kupsas, Sajus, Kairys
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  14. #154
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    main PG of team cant be 21 kid unless he is generational tallent.We can trust kid to run entire team and older players it wont work.

    Maksvytis coaching history shown he dont trust kids (Bieliauskas example in Neptunas).He better takes veteran like L.Williams/M.Mazeika types and play them big minutes than upcomming kid because he want to win now.

    Kazys would rather put SG like Juskevicius/Girdziunas at PG than choose 21-22 kid to run his team from what i saw from him in last 10 years.

    Look at Parma roster Zukauskas at 29 is just 8th oldest player in Parma roster.And Only 4 are U-25 and Maskvytis is allowed to built his team in Parma. It shows clearly what players Kazys likes and what kind players he trust.

    For me it was obviuos Kariniauskas is main candidate to play PG in window games. He already shown he is not affraid and can help NT even in desperation games. Thats key when choosing players for just 3 days camps and games.

    My early starting 5 would look seeing how Maksvytis runs his teams :

    Kariniauskas,Dimsa,Butkevicius,Bendzius,Birutis
    Last edited by Shawshank; 10-11-2021 at 01:45 PM.

  15. #155

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    Yeah, this is truth. He is not known for going with youngsters. On other hand, that's different stage. We can't compare 21-22yo Beliauskas with 21-22yo Velicka f.e. That's 2 different beasts. I would predict that Kariniauskas will start and will be a guy to go de facto .

    I only hope that Maksvytis wouldn't make harsh mistakes roster wise for 2022 Eurobasket. For FIBA windows the key should be general determination, team spirit which always lifted us so much. Only in the other group stage we'll need more quality, but can expect Kariniauskas being 100% at that time and maybe Balciunas will be able to bring 1 or 2 EL pieces for most important games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  16. #156
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    about NT coaching staff i see big upgrades.

    in 2021 going from 3 asisstant coaches Maskoliunas,Masiulis,Matkevicius

    in 2022 NT will have 2 legit head coaches Maksvytis and Kemzura + half way there Zibenas too.


    Balciunas was asked about his relationship with P.Motiejunas he didnt answer and start talking about other things. So i wouldnt be too high on him getting zalgiris players for window games.

    ps. even if Kariniauskas will not be healthy for all window games those combo guards Maksvytis really likes to play them.

    ps. We need to remember in some games in this qualification even Valanciunas with Sabonis can play like in last world cup qualification.Because some games will be played in summer. So then NT will put our A lineup.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 10-11-2021 at 02:17 PM.

  17. #157

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    Well, at least now we'll know that if EL players won't show up there literally was no chance to bring them over. That's what I like about Balciunas, he'll definitely do his home works.

    At some point Maksvytis will have to rely on PGs. There's no way he can go with such as Juskevicius, Girdziunas, Valinskas on a constant basis. Normantas so far was also shaky. IMO, Maksvytis will have to trust Velicka as a back-up cause the offense would be very limited. Maybe Vasiliauskas as pure PG might be his option as well.

    Good point, 2022 window in August will be part of preparation stage for A team prior Eurobasket. Couple of official games will be a good test before EB. But it won't necessary be advantage cause other big teams will have their A rosters in that window as well. We will go against France in the second stage and the situation today is that French NT is stronger than our NT today. But we should qualify nevertheless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

  18. #158
    Senior Member LuDux's Avatar
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    Kairys tore Achiles this summer

    Top 5 Lithuanian scorers LKL plus KMT minus EL

    Last edited by LuDux; 10-11-2021 at 09:43 PM.

  19. #159
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Velicka is not pure PG either.He is first score only then assist PG closer to combo than pure pg.In theory he fits Maksvytis guard style coach likes.

    Kazys likes/liked start Mazeika/Williams/Juskevicius/Girdziunas types at SG and at some point in game move them to PG for offensive reasons and he did that all his coaching career long.

    So for few games in qualification i doubt he will change his basketball style that he used in almost every team he coached.

    When we see grandpa Lukauskis and veteran Gailius on top 6 scoring lkl list its only shows what a low level lithuanians is playing in lkl.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 10-12-2021 at 01:31 PM.

  20. #160

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    Velicka is definitely a point guard. That's written into the stone. He maybe a a Score- First PG, but he's PG nevertheless. I mean no-one would ever argue that Lillard, Curry, T. Parker are not point guards. And there's still big difference usually between a combo guard and a point guard, even if that's a score first PG. F.e. There is difference between Lillard or Parker compared to Manu and Lou Williams. And off course, there's difference between Velicka and some Juskevicius, Valinskas or Normantas. Velicka still has more skills and tools to run the team. Currently, maybe Maksvytis will rely on more experienced guys moving combos to 1, but Velicka is a PG.

    It's one of the bloodiest days of LKL historically. From top 10 ballers of the country there's no single one playing in LKL, only Lekavicius and Ulanovas may be included or may be not. From top 10 young ballers of the country there's probably from none to few (Murauskas, Blazevic, D. Giedraitis) playing in LKL, all leaves to play abroad.

    I listening to Macas talking and he said back then Rytas was a hell of a club to play for. All the conditions were elite and for him it was 50/50 decision to choose between Baskonia and Rytas. That's the reason why Siskauskas was playing so long for Rytas while already was one of the best wings in Europe. Rytas and Zalgiris were filled with elite Lithuanian players. Now it's shit, not a single elite Lithuanian playing in LKL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Marciulionis son will be bust like first Sabonis son

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