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Thread: Lithuania in Eurobasket 2022

  1. #1081
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    France is led by guards - Fournier, Okobo, Huertel, Cabarrot, Maledon. You'll get your hands full with perimeter players. You somehow imagine that Gobert will be dropping 25pts, no...

    Giannis is more of a player with the ball in perimeter. Sure, he'll mess inside too, but the point is to stop his transition and to have a good double team defence on him. JV will barely help here, cause he's too slow for flexible double team defence.

    JV theoretically would be super important against Jokic, but this season Jokic totally destroyed JV. He made him look silly and dropped 46/12/11 on him. Look at that defence, it's ridiculous...I claim that JV is the worst starting center at D we ever had. Sabonis wasn't so horrible because of super high IQ, he was slow, but read the defences perfectly. Then we had Einikis who also wasn't so bad, E. Zukauskas, R. Javtokas and then JV...

    And, no, we wouldn't be instantly miserable with JV out. Domas is not a pushover, he is legitimate body even if not a good defener. Plus, there's a good chance we would have Gudaitis if JV out. If he knew he will have a big role, he would have motivation to go after NT campaign.

    Look at this. Jokic just toying with JV, no chance. JV was so bad that he was even sitting out entire OT and Willy played:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgmQFOIepT8

    JV is an offensive player. In D he will help little against Giannis, Jokic. Some Javtokas would help much more cause dude read the defences well and provided nice help defence too, was able to recover and etc.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  2. #1082
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    If do not control boards with France team we have no chance,giving those guards extra shots.

    Why Jonas plays well againts France always? Because their bigs plays JV style game. Gobert,Poirier,Yabusele their are not shooters,they score mostly from inside using power and athletics.Thats where Jonas feels like fish in the water.

    For Domas againts Gobert is very difficult matchup.Domas cant get clean looks posting Gobert, Jonas can and shown that manny times.

    Secondly Zukauskas,Masiulis are to weak to handle Yabussele big ass and muscles with that 120kg inside too,we will need put Domas on him .

    I repeat nobody can stop Doncic,Giannis,Jokic or Durant type players 1 vs 1 nobody even best defenders in the world cant.They are too big,too good and too gifted.

    But team must have athletes to have chance atleast to bother them.Thats were Jonas must play his part.And Againts Jokic,and againts France athletes and helping on Giannis drives.

    Giannis yesterday in 22 min shooted 19 free throws ! his game 80% is attacking the rim.

    Team better have athletes waiting for him there or he will make dunk festival pushing everybody out of his way,especially those slim long dudes.

    Jonas also had 20pts+ games vs Jokic this season.Jokic dont like and not used to that his size dude attacks him and make him work in defence.

    Without Valanciunas with just Domas,Echodas and 2 small pf no chance againts France,Serbia,Greece.

    Slovenia and Spain sure, JV dont play that important part against those teams.

    btw judge defence what is required from 80 or 90s centers and what is needed in 2020s is simply not fair.

    Einikis and A.Sabonis would be as bad pikenrool defenders today as JV is. JV would be also very good 90s zone center defender inside with his very long hands.

    JV is miles ahead offensively,rebounding wise to Einikis,Zukauskas,Javtokas doesnt that count for something? Last time i checked basketball is played on both sides.

    Valanciunas already leading everybody in NT history in blocks,soon will nr 1 in rebounds too i have a feeling he is doing something good...compared to other our NT centers.

    Jonas never played with elite guards like Sabonis,Zukauskas or Javtokas have in NT. Elite guards is making any centers life way easier.
    Last edited by Shawshank; 08-18-2022 at 10:09 AM.

  3. #1083
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Dont wanna hear your emotional nonsenses crying about Jonas pikenrool defence.We all know he is bad there,but stop dimishing his pluses he brings and againts some elite teams is must thing to have.

    He is starting 5 nba player for a reason.

    Valanciunas gives us nba body and level player that every single eurobasket 2022 team would select to have.

    stop telling nonsenses how very limited european centers like Javtokas or always injured Gudaitis or some Poirier ale somehow in miracle way would make our NT stronger.

    Thats total bullshit if u dont able to get that you just show your inability to get level diffrence between nba starting 5 players and euroleague players .

  4. #1084
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    JV is miles ahead offensively,rebounding wise to Einikis,Zukauskas,Javtokas doesnt that count for something? Last time i checked basketball is played on both sides.

    Valanciunas already leading everybody in NT history in blocks,soon will nr 1 in rebounds too i have a feeling he is doing something good...compared to other our NT centers.

    Jonas never played with elite guards like Sabonis,Zukauskas or Javtokas have in NT. Elite guards is making any centers life way easier.
    ATM Jonas is second best offensive center ever after Arvydas. But I claim that he is also the worst defensive starting center we have. Not only he's slow, just as Sabonis, but he doesn't have IQ and sense in defence. He simply has no sense for positioning against p'n'r and overall defensive positioning. He just feels comfortable guarding 1vs1 when it's physical match-up, that's all. But when Jokic starts to dance with his feet work he gets lost easily too. Another thing, he bites on pump fakes and always late to step out. Remember when Bourousis was nailing those threes for Greece in 4finals 2017EB? JV simply was too late to step out. In this game against Spain he was late to step out for mid range of Willy (if I'm not mistaken, or was it Garuba), and he was constantly late in transition defence. Playing against teams like Greece, Turkey, Italy, France, Slovenia, Spain it will be crucial to have great transition defence and with JV our transition defence is always horrible. There's tons of problems with JV defensively and you trying to ignore everything only because he is truly big presence inside. I'm not denying that he is, but his negative side defensively is way bigger than positive. And offensively Lithuania looks best when the ball moves. And the ball moves when our guards and wings are involved and we're posting Sabonis who can facilitate, he had 6 assists. When we try to utilize JV, the game become slow and one-dimensional, super predictable (you claimed against this few post before, but when it comes to your fav JV you fast to forget all this). I'm not saying we should cut JV, I'm just pointing out an obvious issues.While you're providing homerism via JV. BTW, Sabonis will also have issues defensively, but they are not as huge as JV's and so far it seems that Sabonis makes our offense dynamic and versatile, he makes others better which you would never say about JV. That's why I want defensive big who would be both present inside/outside defensively, cause Sabonis obviously taking over offensively and makes the whole team better. While JV is more of an ISO scorer inside who slows down everything. He still valuable, but you just defending his positive side and, IMO (it's only my opinion), can't see that his negative side is actually bigger overall than positive. JV can have some great games when his defensive flaws are not so evident and he himself having a great night, but that was more the case in the mid of 10's (2015). Going further his disadvantages are more and more evident and becoming nearly open bleeding wounds. BB changing fast and looking how fast the ball moves and how mobile is the offenses in the teams like Serbia, Slovenia, France (and many others) I just see that we are way too vulnerable defensively with JV and we're not going to outscore anyone today with slow, one dimensional post up game, forget about it. I hope JV will give his best and will help to achieve something, but his D is the weakest link today, IMO, cause not even Greece is based on inside scoring. The aggression coming from the perimeter. JV can't take Giannis directly and his help D only works inside and Giannis is aggressive all over the court. Also, the main reasons why we went down against Greece is 2017, was our horrid p'n'r action. Guess why, JV couldn't step out, let alone switch all (obviously Juskevicius sucked too, but with JV we barely stand a chance guarding perimeter and Doncic will take him anytime he wants with one screen, or Fournier, or Micic and etc).

    JV is our weakest link despite being a force in the paint. I hope we will cover as much as possible, but that's a huge problem and if you deny that you're simply JVs homer which you are cause you never speak about JV's issues, only positives.
    Last edited by Straight forward; 08-18-2022 at 11:09 AM.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  5. #1085
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    I'm glad our coaches hear that. "With high p'n'r Spain created a lot of open space", said Žibėnas.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  6. #1086
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    How the worst defensive center in NT history can lead them in blocks and soon will lead in rebounds all time records books?

    Do blocks and rebounds isnt part of defence? Good defensive stop ends when you grab rebound right? He already surpased Zukauskas by 22 blocks.Need 60 rebounds to become nr 1 ever in Nt history.

    You asking unrelistic things for 120kg dude be good in transition defence and be good in pikenrool defence thats unrelistic. How manny basketball players with atleast with 120kg exist in the world who is good at this elements? like 5 in entire world?


    why you dont ask Lukas lead our NT in rebounds and blocks?

    Everything works for our bigs when our opponents bigs are estonians and Finish 2m04 small centers

    When we faced Nba center Willy nobody could stop him,only worst NT defender Jonas to some degree.

    But when we gonna face even bigger dudes like Jokic,France huge dudes or Giannis 2m11 thats is jumping over everybody our mobile unite with Masiulis or Zukauskas gonna stop them aha sure

    Basically reading dinosour experts nonsenses Valanciunas is worst center in NT history.

    But that worst center gonna end up top 5 in almost all NT record categories and will be nr 1 in all center categories
    Last edited by Shawshank; 08-18-2022 at 02:47 PM.

  7. #1087
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    When I said that JV can't rebound and block? He's an elite rebounder and solid blocker. But that's the most precious things in 90's, now mobility/agility is most appreciated thing. And you know it. Do you really believe that Lithuania is all set for success with slow, limited center in today's game? I see Spain taking open shot after open shot, it's a massacre. Spain missed most of these shots in Gran Canaria, but Slovenia and France won't be missing.

    You stubbornly deny every single argument against JV. My point is clear - yes, JV will help against big dudes and there's no-one better in the country to go against big dudes other than JV, but overall our defence with him is way too vulnerable and we will get punished by all top 8 teams, even Serbia, Greece, France - three teams who are pretty big. Cause even these teams have great guards and wings. Thus JV's flaws will cost us more than his advantages will benefit. Denying obvious flaws seems to be pretty stupid. Can we be successful with JV's flaws and other players' flaws? Possible cause we look pretty good. But I think it's highly unlikely to survive elite teams offenses with such defence. Spain knew very well what's the target No.1 and was attacking JV in p'n'r all the time endlessly. I don't even talk about Echodas, he's either out, or will play few minutes. I know JV will play and he will be attacked, no single doubt.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  8. #1088
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    It's not about to celebrate rebounds and domination in the pain. It's not about to make JV or any other player satisfied. It's about Lithuania winning.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  9. #1089
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    You said that Jonas is worst center defender in Nt history and asked do blocks and rebounds isnt part of defence?

    could tell me in what defensive elements Einikis was better than Valanciunas?

    Remember in 90s centers didnt need to guard 3 point line.They could stay home inside in zone defences.

    Rebounds Jonas>Einikis
    Blocks Jonas>Einikis
    Rim protection Jonas>Einikis
    Transition defence both slow,but Jonas tries hard to run,Einikis half of the time wasnt even trying to run hard.

    So you really believe that without Valanciunas we have better chance againts those 3 elite teams

    Greece,Serbia,France?

    Just yes or no ?
    Last edited by Shawshank; 08-18-2022 at 03:26 PM.

  10. #1090
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    I believe than any nba starting 5 level player helps our NT alot,not a little bit but alot !

    But its just my opinion ofcourse

  11. #1091
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    Einikis was more agile, flexible and was better at positioning than JV. He was not a shot blocker, but tough inside and pretty flexible.

    IDK. I can only say that all top teams will have NO.1 target - JV - in the first place.

    Listen to the part "2007 rinktine pries 2022 rinktine" in this podcast. Javtokas to me popped out as the best defensive center we had prior listening this podcast, but obviously Kleiza is talking things that I preech here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkh_..._channel=15min
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  12. #1092
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    Only i can say if NT bigs think Willy was tough cover, when they will face Jokic,Giannis and France they will realise Willy was just ok.

    I listen to that podcast i agree with Kleiza. That 2007-2008 was last elite team group we had.

    Kleiza talking about 5 shooters on the floor like Slovenia playing now.

    But i dont hear anywhere Kleiza saying Valanciunas is useless like your nonsenses.

    Linas says only good things about Jonas and Domas always,because he gets it what level nba starting 5 players are. You dont.

    He loves to critiques Kuzminskas or Sedekerskis weak dudes mentally.

    Kleiza himself says yes Domas and JV would be the only advantage this 2022 team would have over 2007-2008.

    i agree 100% all other positions 2007-2008 had better players.

    And you saying our biggest advantage hurts us more than helps.Thats why im pointing you are looking silly saying such nonsenses.

  13. #1093
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawshank View Post
    Only i can say if NT bigs think Willy was tough cover, when they will face Jokic,Giannis and France they will realise Willy was just ok.

    I see listen to that podcast i agree with Kleiza. That 2007-2008 was last elite team group we had.

    Kleiza talking about 5 shooters on the floor like Slovenia playing now.

    But i dont hear anywhere Kleiza saying Valanciunas is useless like your nonsenses.

    Linas says only good things about Jonas and Domas always,because he gets it what level nba starting 5 players are. You dont.

    He loves to critiques Kuzminskas or Sedekerskis weak dudes mentally.

    Kleiza himself says yes Domas and JV would be the only advantage this 2022 team would have over 2007-2008.

    i agree 100% all other positions 2007-2008 had better players.

    And you saying our biggest advantage hurts us more than helps.Thats why im pointing you are looking silly saying such nonsenses.
    Did you listen what he said? He said something like - how 2022 would guard Saras' pick and roll? There's no answers. He mocked current JV/Domas defence basically. He said with Javtokas I would slow down them, Javtokas could guard p'n'r, step out and so on. While Domas and JV would have advantage inside, that wouldn't be the main issue. But JV/Domas wouldn't have advantage at D. That's what he said. I see you have problems with listening either, not only reading Kleiza didn't say a single good word for JV's defence, not ever I think. You're the one who talking here how JV stopping France, Serbia, Greece. No-one ever talks about JV's defence. If they talk, it's how trashy he is at p'n'r.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  14. #1094
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    I knew Sabonis will have a decent connection with R. Giedraitis:

    https://twitter.com/ltu_basketball/s...17155048046592

    I want to see Jokubaitis, Grigonis, Giedraitis, Brazdeikis, Sabonis line-up for some stretches. Sabonis around would have enough of shooters/cutters who all can play with the ball some too. That's our most dangerous offensive line-up, IMO. Off course, defensively we would have some problems, but the mobility would be there.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  15. #1095
    Senior Member Hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toruko View Post
    This is what he wrote.

    I wouldnt give away Jokic, Gobert or Sengün for JV. These guys I can think of right now.
    Admittedly I didn't choose my words well and overstated my case.

    My bottom line though is this. Basketball like most team sports is a game of matchups. As such it involves constant ongoing adjustments by each coach. To build a winning team, a coach must not only have excellent tools(players) in his tool kit, but just like any other workman he must have a wide range of tools in his kit. He must have hammers, wrenches, screwdrivers, all kinds of bits and pieces in his tool kit.

    Jonas Valančiūnas is a hammer, and an excellent hammer at that. What he's not is a Phillips screwdriver. If you ask him to do the job of a Phillips screwdriver and chase fleet footed guards around the perimeter, he's going to fail. It's not because his basketball IQ is low, he just can't do it well because he's simply too slow-footed. What Team Lietuva needs is a Phillips screwdriver on the roster. Unfortunately it doesn't have a tall, strong and quick player who's a skilled defender. The last one was Robertas Javtokas.

    So Team Lietuva coaches have to resort to the wrong tool for the job of stepping out to the perimeter, that often being Valančiūnas. And then he draws flak from some observers for not being able to do the job even though he's not well suited/designed for the job. And the coaches draw flak from other armchair observers (such as myself) for failing to design a defensive scheme to fully utilize Valančiūnas' strengths while covering up his weaknesses. But the coaches don't have all the tools that they'd like in their tool box, e.g. a big strong fellow who can both intimidate under the basket and step out quickly.

    So we've got to make do with the best players that we have, and Valančiūnas is absolutely one of them.


  16. #1096
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepcat View Post
    Admittedly I didn't choose my words well and overstated my case.

    My bottom line though is this. Basketball like most team sports is a game of matchups. As such it involves constant ongoing adjustments by each coach. To build a winning team, a coach must not only have excellent tools(players) in his tool kit, but just like any other workman he must have a wide range of tools in his kit. He must have hammers, wrenches, screwdrivers, all kinds of bits and pieces in his tool kit.

    Jonas Valančiūnas is a hammer, and an excellent hammer at that. What he's not is a Phillips screwdriver. If you ask him to do the job of a Phillips screwdriver and chase fleet footed guards around the perimeter, he's going to fail. It's not because his basketball IQ is low, he just can't do it well because he's simply too slow-footed. What Team Lietuva needs is a Phillips screwdriver on the roster. Unfortunately it doesn't have a tall, strong and quick player who's a skilled defender. The last one was Robertas Javtokas.

    So Team Lietuva coaches have to resort to the wrong tool for the job of stepping out to the perimeter, that often being Valančiūnas. And then he draws flak from some observers for not being able to do the job even though he's not well suited/designed for the job. And the coaches draw flak from other armchair observers (such as myself) for failing to design a defensive scheme to fully utilize Valančiūnas' strengths while covering up his weaknesses. But the coaches don't have all the tools that they'd like in their tool box, e.g. a big strong fellow who can both intimidate under the basket and step out quickly.

    So we've got to make do with the best players that we have, and Valančiūnas is absolutely one of them.

    I think what you meant was something like "Every team would like to have JV in its roster". This would be totally true. I would put half of the Turkish team on the table just for JV.

  17. #1097
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    It's amazing how Brazdeikis stormed NT flat out! He may be our top scorer in EB already. He is much better suited for FIBA than NBA. He can dominate less athletic opponents.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  18. #1098
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    Domas is the man, survived ISO defence vs Brown. I liked what Maksvytis did for the last defensive possession.

    JV had a dominant offensive game, but sorry guys again he had TONS of problems with p'n'r defence...
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  19. #1099
    Senior Member Straight forward's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight forward View Post
    It's amazing how Brazdeikis stormed NT flat out! He may be our top scorer in EB already. He is much better suited for FIBA than NBA. He can dominate less athletic opponents.
    Iggy with the game winner (and he did that against NBA players). He basically closed both games against Spain. Easily the best ISO baller since Kleiza:

    https://twitter.com/ltu_basketball/s...33710066606081

    I liked that Jokubaitis took crunch time jimmy. Missed it, but it was a good shot.

    Liked that Grigonis didn't force things second game in a row. He's looking for his spot on aggression.

    Liked that Sabonis again had 6 assists, but chemistry is still not entirely there with others. He would be terrific if he had another month to mesh with all the players.

    Liked that R. Giedraitis delivered again.

    Lekavicius, Jokubaitis and Grigonis shapes are worrysome a bit (specially Lukas). There's still some time and I'm OK with NT not being 100% ready, but that will be the reason why Maksvytis will take pure ballhandler Zemaitis most probably (looked better than Dimsa anyway). Do I trust Zemaitis? Not really, he was inconsistent performer during the season and not great decision maker. But he looked pretty good during the camp thus far.
    LTU NT will snatch Eurobasket 2029 title with this roster:

    Jokubaitis, Marciulionis, Laurencikas
    Indrusaitis, Brazdeikis, Rubstavicius
    Buzelis, Lelevicius
    Murauskas, Sirvydis
    Tubelis, Krivas

  20. #1100
    Senior Member Shawshank's Avatar
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    i give up if today Valanciunas played badly when his -+ is one of the best on entire team this simply hating and nothing more.

    Useless to argue with blind hater. Today JV pluses obviuos was bigger than minuses not even close.

    One game Jonas will play better,other Domas thats power having 2 of 15 best centers in entire world,very unlikely both gonna play bad in same game.

    That our pg was schooled in 4 querter by Brown was main reason why spain almost won the game.

    Thats what happens when we have very bad Pg defenders and Valanciunas in same pikenrool we gonna get punished alot.

    Our pg must fight more actively against picks watch videos of Seibutis or something with same young Valanciunas from early years.

    This is not acceptable such no contact defence by Lekavicius and Jokubaitis in 4 querter.

    Brazdeikis has total american mindset doesnt matter how much he misses,he confident he gonna make next one.

    But overall really bad performance by our NT. Spain played without 3 of their 7 best players and almost beat us (Willy,Rudy,Llull)

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